Spax 'n' HiLos
Discussion
Pay rise last month so planning to blow some cash on uprated suspension stuff.
Any thoughts on the relative merits of Spax vs Konis vs Gaz shocks? I'm thinking of going for lowered Spax adjustables.
Also, what about HiLos? Am I right in thinking that there are "genuine" ones and "copies" or are they all much of a muchness?
What about tools to do the job? Do I need one of those cone compressor jobbies?
Finally, a number of website say "knuckle joints extra" - do I need to change them at the same time? Is is a "must do" or "better to do it while it's all taken apart"??
Cheers all!
Any thoughts on the relative merits of Spax vs Konis vs Gaz shocks? I'm thinking of going for lowered Spax adjustables.
Also, what about HiLos? Am I right in thinking that there are "genuine" ones and "copies" or are they all much of a muchness?
What about tools to do the job? Do I need one of those cone compressor jobbies?
Finally, a number of website say "knuckle joints extra" - do I need to change them at the same time? Is is a "must do" or "better to do it while it's all taken apart"??
Cheers all!
I just chopped a bit off the trumpet with a hacksaw.
It is free.
The front and rears have different ratios, which means that you have to cut off different amounts front and rear to lower the car, say, one inch.
I have the ratios somewhere. I'll dig them out if you want.
Once you get the correct ride height, you will never adjust it again. I don't really see the point of HiLos, because you can get the same result with a hacksaw and a file for free. Just remember to measure up before you lift the car.
From what I remember about Minis, (and it is 15 years ago) I seem to recall that it was always the nylon insert rather than the knuckle that was shagged.
These probably only cost pennies, even today.
The best way to get a Mini round a bend was to put it on ten inch wheels with 165 Yokos and lower the bugger as much as possible.
Then put on Spax dampers and, starting from the softest setting, gradually screw them in a click at a time until you get there.
Of all the half a dozen Minis that I've had, the best handling and fastest cornering were all on ten inch wheels.
The steering was much nicer too.
Pat.
It is free.
The front and rears have different ratios, which means that you have to cut off different amounts front and rear to lower the car, say, one inch.
I have the ratios somewhere. I'll dig them out if you want.
Once you get the correct ride height, you will never adjust it again. I don't really see the point of HiLos, because you can get the same result with a hacksaw and a file for free. Just remember to measure up before you lift the car.
From what I remember about Minis, (and it is 15 years ago) I seem to recall that it was always the nylon insert rather than the knuckle that was shagged.
These probably only cost pennies, even today.
The best way to get a Mini round a bend was to put it on ten inch wheels with 165 Yokos and lower the bugger as much as possible.
Then put on Spax dampers and, starting from the softest setting, gradually screw them in a click at a time until you get there.
Of all the half a dozen Minis that I've had, the best handling and fastest cornering were all on ten inch wheels.
The steering was much nicer too.
Pat.
You'll need a cone compressor.
Oh and you will also need the luck that:
a) The previous clown hasnt cross threaded the cone
b) The nylon cup hasnt welded itself to the upper arm
c) The other end of the knuckle hasnt welded itself to the trumpet
d) The arm itself is in good nick as if you are going in you may as well check its operation, but if its not knackered DONT take it apart.
If you are fitting hi lo's you'll only need the compressor to get the cones off, once they are off winding the hi los down should give you enough clearance for reassembly.
Oh you'll need a ball joint seperator too.
I've got a couple of knuckle joints lieing about if you want them. Best do them at the same time as murphys law says they'll only go once you have put it back together.
I'm fitting Gaz coil overs at the moment, supposed to be a bit more tweakable than the Spax depending on which report you read...
There are originals and copies though I think they are all pretty much of a muchness...
Another tip is when you are putting it back together grease the outside of the cup so if you should have to do the job again.
Remember to grease the top arms whilst you are in there. If the nipple doesnt work, replace it, you really dont want to be in the same situation as me!
>> Edited by plotloss on Monday 15th September 21:58
Oh and you will also need the luck that:
a) The previous clown hasnt cross threaded the cone
b) The nylon cup hasnt welded itself to the upper arm
c) The other end of the knuckle hasnt welded itself to the trumpet
d) The arm itself is in good nick as if you are going in you may as well check its operation, but if its not knackered DONT take it apart.
If you are fitting hi lo's you'll only need the compressor to get the cones off, once they are off winding the hi los down should give you enough clearance for reassembly.
Oh you'll need a ball joint seperator too.
I've got a couple of knuckle joints lieing about if you want them. Best do them at the same time as murphys law says they'll only go once you have put it back together.
I'm fitting Gaz coil overs at the moment, supposed to be a bit more tweakable than the Spax depending on which report you read...
There are originals and copies though I think they are all pretty much of a muchness...
Another tip is when you are putting it back together grease the outside of the cup so if you should have to do the job again.
Remember to grease the top arms whilst you are in there. If the nipple doesnt work, replace it, you really dont want to be in the same situation as me!
>> Edited by plotloss on Monday 15th September 21:58
Spax are what I would go for on the mini (no experience of gaz but heard they were the same company), the konis I had were ok but to have to take them off to adjust them that can be a real pain.
I have a set of original hilos and a set of cheaper copy ones, the way they adjust is different, hilos have a big Allen key which goes down the inside of the cone, the copies just have a nut where the knuckle sits. They both do the same job though and considering the copy can be had for £40 a full set I’d buy them. Last time I bought knuckle joints they were £7 each so I’d say they are a must do.
I have a set of original hilos and a set of cheaper copy ones, the way they adjust is different, hilos have a big Allen key which goes down the inside of the cone, the copies just have a nut where the knuckle sits. They both do the same job though and considering the copy can be had for £40 a full set I’d buy them. Last time I bought knuckle joints they were £7 each so I’d say they are a must do.
From my experience:
Spax are generally slightly stiffer than koni - koni seem a more fluid ride. Not sure about Gaz, sort of consider them the new kids on the block. I haven't heard anything bad about them, but then again i haven't heard anyone who's fitted them either!
Spax can be adjusted on car, konis have to be taken off car. However - think about it. Once they are set you'll probably never change them, so is it necessary?
Someone i know bought spax for the adjustability - thought it would help him on track days. Pretty soon worked out that he ran the dampers about one click from bottom on the road and two clicks from bottom on the track - if he could be bothered. It didn't seem to affect him too much (other drivers different of course).
So, IMO choice should be done on what you think is the most comfortable for the money, or gets the closest to what you want to achieve, for the money.
Spax are generally slightly stiffer than koni - koni seem a more fluid ride. Not sure about Gaz, sort of consider them the new kids on the block. I haven't heard anything bad about them, but then again i haven't heard anyone who's fitted them either!
Spax can be adjusted on car, konis have to be taken off car. However - think about it. Once they are set you'll probably never change them, so is it necessary?
Someone i know bought spax for the adjustability - thought it would help him on track days. Pretty soon worked out that he ran the dampers about one click from bottom on the road and two clicks from bottom on the track - if he could be bothered. It didn't seem to affect him too much (other drivers different of course).
So, IMO choice should be done on what you think is the most comfortable for the money, or gets the closest to what you want to achieve, for the money.
plotloss said:
I thought the later original hi los had the nut fitment as well to do away with those long key things?
That’s possible, mine are old though.
The problem I found with having to take the shocks off to adjust is that you have to fit, try it, remove, adjust and fit..... My spax were much easier and I got better results. Also konis don't have clicks, you turn the whole top of the shock so its harder to get both damping at the same rate
Right! Here is my 2 pence having used both Spax and Koni and having Hi Los and fitting the lot my self.
I was reccomended Konis by Ian Osbourne of OAR racing, as he is the one who did the majority of the work on my engine. Apparntly they give a better ride. And I have to say they do.
The ride with the Konis is comfortable as well as sporty. There is very little body roll when they are set up, but you don't notice the fact that you've changed the dampers until you actually push the car. But the down side is they are a pain to adjust, they also rust a bit. I do mean a bit, not a lot just a little. I ran them at 3 turns on the front and 1.5 at the rear.
Spax, now I got these after I bottomed out the Konis and destroyed the rear dampers. Got a set of BRG ones with alloy adjuster knobs, specially from a very nice man at Spax at MITP, along with 2 year warranty. Put them on the car immediately felt the difference to the Konis. Set them up the same as the Konis, just over the half way on the front and a bit on the back. The ride is harsh, very harsh. Especially over the small bumps, my CD changer actually skips a lot more than ever before. When you get in they do make the car feel immediately more sporty as soon as you start going, but this is sacrficed at the cost of comfort. You can get a bit tired with the constant harsh ride. But then adjusting them is easy don't even have to jack the car up. Also the to cover is plastic so no risk of rust and the powder coating is nice and tough.
GAZ, I did want a set of these, but I was recomended against them by Dave at Mini Spares, said they're not quite there yet.
AVO, just talk to the guys at Spax about them. Apparently, so I'm told, they are made in the old Spax factory by an ex employee of Spax. Using old Spax design. Anyhow they are well expensive and the cars I have driven with them on aren't great.
Overall, I'd say it's up to you, but Koni's IMHO have a better ride, but are impractical over Spax. At the end of the day, see which you can get cheapest. As some above said, you don't really need to adjust them every week. I used my Konis for 3 years, had the Spax for 1.5 now but stopped using the car due to relocating North.
Adjusta rides. Now depends if you are going to buy the official Hi Los or the others. With the others all you need is a bit of time and a pair of big spanners.
To fit them you will need a cone compressor make sure you get the right one. Also a lot of patience.
Fitting to the rear is quite easy, aside from getting the knuckle joint out. Best to remove the brake drums as it means there is less weight to pull the radius arm down whilst working. A crowbar also helps to remove the old trumpets. Also good to fit a new pair of knuckle joints as getting the rubber boot over the nylon cup whilst the suspension is in place. But getting the old one out is a pain. A mini blow torch is good for melting it. Good to replace them if they never have been in case the nylon cup is close to wearing through.
Front is a bit more involved but essentially the same. Can't remember if you have to drop the subframe a bit or not. Also make sure you don't set the suspension too low or they will fall out if the wheels leave the ground. Also remember that after jacking up the car will need time to settle and may appear a bit high at first, so give it a few days for the dampers to work in, then readjust.
Hope this helps. As usual, mail me if you have any problems.
>> Edited by WildfireS3 on Tuesday 16th September 13:54
I was reccomended Konis by Ian Osbourne of OAR racing, as he is the one who did the majority of the work on my engine. Apparntly they give a better ride. And I have to say they do.
The ride with the Konis is comfortable as well as sporty. There is very little body roll when they are set up, but you don't notice the fact that you've changed the dampers until you actually push the car. But the down side is they are a pain to adjust, they also rust a bit. I do mean a bit, not a lot just a little. I ran them at 3 turns on the front and 1.5 at the rear.
Spax, now I got these after I bottomed out the Konis and destroyed the rear dampers. Got a set of BRG ones with alloy adjuster knobs, specially from a very nice man at Spax at MITP, along with 2 year warranty. Put them on the car immediately felt the difference to the Konis. Set them up the same as the Konis, just over the half way on the front and a bit on the back. The ride is harsh, very harsh. Especially over the small bumps, my CD changer actually skips a lot more than ever before. When you get in they do make the car feel immediately more sporty as soon as you start going, but this is sacrficed at the cost of comfort. You can get a bit tired with the constant harsh ride. But then adjusting them is easy don't even have to jack the car up. Also the to cover is plastic so no risk of rust and the powder coating is nice and tough.
GAZ, I did want a set of these, but I was recomended against them by Dave at Mini Spares, said they're not quite there yet.
AVO, just talk to the guys at Spax about them. Apparently, so I'm told, they are made in the old Spax factory by an ex employee of Spax. Using old Spax design. Anyhow they are well expensive and the cars I have driven with them on aren't great.
Overall, I'd say it's up to you, but Koni's IMHO have a better ride, but are impractical over Spax. At the end of the day, see which you can get cheapest. As some above said, you don't really need to adjust them every week. I used my Konis for 3 years, had the Spax for 1.5 now but stopped using the car due to relocating North.
Adjusta rides. Now depends if you are going to buy the official Hi Los or the others. With the others all you need is a bit of time and a pair of big spanners.
To fit them you will need a cone compressor make sure you get the right one. Also a lot of patience.
Fitting to the rear is quite easy, aside from getting the knuckle joint out. Best to remove the brake drums as it means there is less weight to pull the radius arm down whilst working. A crowbar also helps to remove the old trumpets. Also good to fit a new pair of knuckle joints as getting the rubber boot over the nylon cup whilst the suspension is in place. But getting the old one out is a pain. A mini blow torch is good for melting it. Good to replace them if they never have been in case the nylon cup is close to wearing through.
Front is a bit more involved but essentially the same. Can't remember if you have to drop the subframe a bit or not. Also make sure you don't set the suspension too low or they will fall out if the wheels leave the ground. Also remember that after jacking up the car will need time to settle and may appear a bit high at first, so give it a few days for the dampers to work in, then readjust.
Hope this helps. As usual, mail me if you have any problems.
>> Edited by WildfireS3 on Tuesday 16th September 13:54
I'd say a day's work if you started early in the morning. Depends on if you decide to take out the knuckle joints or not and if you can get the rubber back over the nylon cup. Have struggled with one for over an hour before!! Then it's just a question of getting it set up right.
Oh and a vernier caliper is agood start to getting the height equal.
Check Modifying your mini for the suspension raise/lower ratio, it is different for the front and rear. Think it's about 1 to four for the back, can't remember the front off hand.
Oh and a vernier caliper is agood start to getting the height equal.
Check Modifying your mini for the suspension raise/lower ratio, it is different for the front and rear. Think it's about 1 to four for the back, can't remember the front off hand.
Spax and Koni's give a different ride because: Konis are soft on bump and stiff on rebound, whilst SPAX are stiff on both bump and rebound. thus, for a fast road car staying mainly on good tarmac they are probably best. For a rally or off-raod car you're better off with SPAX as when you hit a big bump with a Koni the front goes down and if you hit another big bump before the dampers have 'rebounded' the car drops even lower. You can bottom out the Koni which shags out the seals quickly.
I always use SPAX with the front adjusters facing forward and the rears facing back. Initially set 3 clicks on the front and two on the back and then adjust to suit your own driving style.
I did 18 rallies on one front set of SPAX and 22 on the rears. Even then they were not too bad and I changed them more as a precaution, keeping the old ones as spares.
I always use SPAX with the front adjusters facing forward and the rears facing back. Initially set 3 clicks on the front and two on the back and then adjust to suit your own driving style.
I did 18 rallies on one front set of SPAX and 22 on the rears. Even then they were not too bad and I changed them more as a precaution, keeping the old ones as spares.
Did the job over the weekend - mostly OK other than remembering that I had to remove the damn fuel tank to do the n/s rear...
Only problem seems to be on the n/s front. The whacking great bolt in the top of the suspension (under the bonnet) tightens down to a dead stop - but there is still a little play - enough to wiggle the washer a touch. I'm guessing that the bottom of the bolt is hitting the top of the hi-lo. What have I done wrong?
Only problem seems to be on the n/s front. The whacking great bolt in the top of the suspension (under the bonnet) tightens down to a dead stop - but there is still a little play - enough to wiggle the washer a touch. I'm guessing that the bottom of the bolt is hitting the top of the hi-lo. What have I done wrong?
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