964 turbo good or bad
Discussion
looking into getting another porsche {had a 993 c4s}
and cant help but keep looking at the 964 {965 ?} turbo as the seem to represent good value when compared with a good 993
any advice as to the oownership of these , i hope that it will hold a large percentage of its value if looked after well . but will looking after one brake the bank {compared to a 993}
i expect to do around 5/6 k a year and use it every week rain or shine
any advice on these maters would be very helpfull
and also if anyone knows of a decent car for sale in the very near future
many thanks
and cant help but keep looking at the 964 {965 ?} turbo as the seem to represent good value when compared with a good 993
any advice as to the oownership of these , i hope that it will hold a large percentage of its value if looked after well . but will looking after one brake the bank {compared to a 993}
i expect to do around 5/6 k a year and use it every week rain or shine
any advice on these maters would be very helpfull
and also if anyone knows of a decent car for sale in the very near future
many thanks
Had a 993C4S & a 965T2
To be honest though the 993C4S wasn't as quick bet it would have been quicker on normal roads and in the real world, as it was more drivable with a longer power band, the T2 was a handful with a wallop of power then the rev limeter, which is good for a bit but the novelty wears off believe me.
To be honest though the 993C4S wasn't as quick bet it would have been quicker on normal roads and in the real world, as it was more drivable with a longer power band, the T2 was a handful with a wallop of power then the rev limeter, which is good for a bit but the novelty wears off believe me.
Ultra Violent said:
Good, thursty.
Rennlist has a good 964turbo section.
rennlist is a good shoutRennlist has a good 964turbo section.
Roly at eporsch tend to do a fair bit or trade in 964/965's & has a couple in at the moment....
http://www.eporsch.co.uk/0101for_sale.htm
Go for it, they're awesome cars!!
I've ran mine since January this year after a 964 c2. The Turbo is way more special than a normally aspirated model both in looks and ownership enjoyment. I've used mine in all weathers (including a trip to Lemans), although it's predominantly a sunny day car, and as long as you're smooth and not a complete numpty, you can still make great progress.
I'd recommend you keep at least 3000 pounds spare for faults and bringing the car upto scratch, unless you buy an absolute minter (like my mates old 3.6 in Sean Lockyears - 75k!!, he sold it for 40k about 2 years ago! with 8000 miles on the clock). Most of them are due a good brake overhaul by now, sorting the plate lift in the calipers, etc and most have the obligatory faded rear lights - 600 pounds inc. vat now!.
I still get excited everytime I open my garage door though and until I don't, I have no plans to change.
I've ran mine since January this year after a 964 c2. The Turbo is way more special than a normally aspirated model both in looks and ownership enjoyment. I've used mine in all weathers (including a trip to Lemans), although it's predominantly a sunny day car, and as long as you're smooth and not a complete numpty, you can still make great progress.
I'd recommend you keep at least 3000 pounds spare for faults and bringing the car upto scratch, unless you buy an absolute minter (like my mates old 3.6 in Sean Lockyears - 75k!!, he sold it for 40k about 2 years ago! with 8000 miles on the clock). Most of them are due a good brake overhaul by now, sorting the plate lift in the calipers, etc and most have the obligatory faded rear lights - 600 pounds inc. vat now!.
I still get excited everytime I open my garage door though and until I don't, I have no plans to change.
Good cars, only really let down by the archaic fuel system, why Porsche kept the CIS injection for so long is baffling. There are ways of making it better now so they aren't quite as thirsty and as an aside you get better response, easily modified to give 400bhp reliably too if you want more go. I can't see them ever going down in price either so as long as you look after it you should get your money back, minus running costs of course
Get a black one, they're quicker....
Get a black one, they're quicker....
JBL930 said:
Good cars, only really let down by the archaic fuel system, why Porsche kept the CIS injection for so long is baffling. There are ways of making it better now so they aren't quite as thirsty and as an aside you get better response, easily modified to give 400bhp reliably too if you want more go. I can't see them ever going down in price either so as long as you look after it you should get your money back, minus running costs of course
Get a black one, they're quicker....
In what sense can the fuel system be improved ? I know 9M does Motec for the N/A stuff - what improvements do Turbo owners generally make ?Get a black one, they're quicker....
Cheers.
You don't need Motec until you want serious power, or unless you've got money to burn.
The main modification with CIS is an adjustable warm up regulator (WUR) or there is also a digital WUR available that allows you to map the fuel for every 250rpm, this is a new product and has not yet been fully tested, the adjustable WUR has been around for years and is well proven.
The stock CIS is all mechanical as is controlled by the pressure of the fuel, the WUR governs the control pressure via diaphragms. Whilst warming up a bimetallic strip holds the control pressure low which means a rich mixture, this has an electrical current passing through it which as the engine warms up the control pressure is raised and the mixture leans out to the correct setting.
When the turbo starts to spool up boost pressure is fed into the WUR moving one of the diaphragms and lowering the control pressure which in turn gives a richer mixture. Basically you are looking for around 14.7:1afr on cruise and 12.0:1afr on boost.
The problem with the stock WUR is that it drops control pressure too early which means you end up with a really rich mid range, this is a waste of fuel and also makes the engine sluggish loosing throttle response and power. The adjustable unit allows you to raise the boost enrichment threshold getting rid of the majority of this on a stock engine, it also allows you to precisely set the warm up pressure, the cruise pressure and also the on boost pressure getting precisely the AFR you want.
If you go for any modifcations, headers, turbo, muffler, cams etc etc this will make the turbo spool up even sooner making the mixture richer earlier, you can then fit a very simple solenoid valve that is triggered at a set rpm level, this holds back the boost from the WUR delaying enrichment until you actually need it.
The digital unit if it works as advertised will be even better, you have total control over everything, almost like EFI only still with mechanical injection. Will be a great product if it works.
Some reading and web links
http://members.cox.net/930wur/
http://unwiredtools.com/utcis-pt.asp
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=37...
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.p...
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.p...
The main modification with CIS is an adjustable warm up regulator (WUR) or there is also a digital WUR available that allows you to map the fuel for every 250rpm, this is a new product and has not yet been fully tested, the adjustable WUR has been around for years and is well proven.
The stock CIS is all mechanical as is controlled by the pressure of the fuel, the WUR governs the control pressure via diaphragms. Whilst warming up a bimetallic strip holds the control pressure low which means a rich mixture, this has an electrical current passing through it which as the engine warms up the control pressure is raised and the mixture leans out to the correct setting.
When the turbo starts to spool up boost pressure is fed into the WUR moving one of the diaphragms and lowering the control pressure which in turn gives a richer mixture. Basically you are looking for around 14.7:1afr on cruise and 12.0:1afr on boost.
The problem with the stock WUR is that it drops control pressure too early which means you end up with a really rich mid range, this is a waste of fuel and also makes the engine sluggish loosing throttle response and power. The adjustable unit allows you to raise the boost enrichment threshold getting rid of the majority of this on a stock engine, it also allows you to precisely set the warm up pressure, the cruise pressure and also the on boost pressure getting precisely the AFR you want.
If you go for any modifcations, headers, turbo, muffler, cams etc etc this will make the turbo spool up even sooner making the mixture richer earlier, you can then fit a very simple solenoid valve that is triggered at a set rpm level, this holds back the boost from the WUR delaying enrichment until you actually need it.
The digital unit if it works as advertised will be even better, you have total control over everything, almost like EFI only still with mechanical injection. Will be a great product if it works.
Some reading and web links
http://members.cox.net/930wur/
http://unwiredtools.com/utcis-pt.asp
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=37...
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.p...
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.p...
cardigankid said:
A mate of mine bought one, which turned out to have been seriously bent at one time. My view is therefore jaundiced. I think they are dangerous cars which will catch you out one day, and as a result, a lot of them will have a major crash somewhere in their past.
Not far off the mark there.i looked at a 3.6T2 about 18months 2yrs ago.
Cheap with no history, but looked the part in Black etc.
Turned out having done some digging on here that the roof had been level with the top of the seats on the passanger side and that it was a converted from LHD to RHD, basically a bag of s
te.So inspections are paramount on these babies, oh and mega money to run.
A leakdown test is very important too to check engine health. I don't think they are dangerous cars at all, in the wrong hands any car is lethal, the biggest thing with any 911 is not lifting in a fast corner. I've been driving my car for over 5 years and it's never caught me out, but then i do have a healthy respect for it
Good luck then. I'm sure that you are right, my feeling is you would need to know your stuff to get a good un, and then always but always be on top of your game when driving it. I accept that there are those who can do that. I wouldn't trust myself personally. Sooner or later I would come a cropper.
Edited by cardigankid on Wednesday 20th August 18:09
I ran a Tuurbo 3.6 for a while - and you do get used to the performance after a while. Once that wore off, all I was left with was a car that looked gorgeous but was a time bomb in terms of costs (as with many 3.6 owners I kerbed one of the rear Speedline split rims - I think they were something like £1,500 EACH) and every time I parked it I was nervous about picking up a ding. In the end I didn't enjoy it because of the worry - it was truly immaculate - so I sold it. Servicing wasn't cheap either - if you want to keep the car immaculate, that is.
Still think they are STUNNING to look at, my favourite 911 - but havng owned one and sold it, I keep reminding myself that the novelty does wear off. If you're going to use 'em every day that's different, but I kept it as a weekend car.
Still think they are STUNNING to look at, my favourite 911 - but havng owned one and sold it, I keep reminding myself that the novelty does wear off. If you're going to use 'em every day that's different, but I kept it as a weekend car.
go for it there a great car but get it inspected and leakdown tested also try to find a car as near factory spec as you can ive got two one tahoe blue thats standard and one rubystone thats modified .The standard car rarely gives me trouble ( Although just had the steering rack refurbed was leaking )but the modified one always seemed to find somthing to go wrong (infact we decided to strip it and rebuild it from scratch into a track car and see what exactley the mods are so we know whats there and whats not) if you want a modified one get the standard car and get it moded your self so if it goes wrong you know whats been done
I do not own one but have always toyed with the idea of buying one. Several reasons:
(1) Looks. In my view the best looking "classic shape" 911.
(2) Power delivery. In 3.6 guise, a powerful classic turbo engine.
(3) Value/rarity. Excellent at the moment (be aware that all 964s are currently appreciating fast on the continent). The "classic shape" effect again.
The downside is servicing costs, which tend to be higher on 964s than on any other models, and highest on turbos in the 964 range.
Buy a 3.6 if you can afford/find one. I'd consider a lhd.
(1) Looks. In my view the best looking "classic shape" 911.
(2) Power delivery. In 3.6 guise, a powerful classic turbo engine.
(3) Value/rarity. Excellent at the moment (be aware that all 964s are currently appreciating fast on the continent). The "classic shape" effect again.
The downside is servicing costs, which tend to be higher on 964s than on any other models, and highest on turbos in the 964 range.
Buy a 3.6 if you can afford/find one. I'd consider a lhd.
Loach said:
Anyone know anything about the yellow 3.6 T2 in the classifieds?
There is this - a rare Ferrari Yellow 964Thttps://www.elferspot.com/en/car/porsche-964-turbo...
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