Discussion
No catch.
Just look at www.mobile.de and do a conversion between EUR and GBP.
Remember that the 996 ain't no spring chicken, and that they've churned out quite a few now... some of which are high mileage autobahn munchers.
Also, they were much cheaper in Germany than the UK, at launch. I think new list is something like 49k in Germany.
Well worth considering as a scond hand buy, to be honest.
Rgds
Domster
Just look at www.mobile.de and do a conversion between EUR and GBP.
Remember that the 996 ain't no spring chicken, and that they've churned out quite a few now... some of which are high mileage autobahn munchers.
Also, they were much cheaper in Germany than the UK, at launch. I think new list is something like 49k in Germany.
Well worth considering as a scond hand buy, to be honest.
Rgds
Domster
Dom, that's a good site.
Rich, it probably is just too cheap. High mileage? Early 996? Several owners?
We run into the LHD question here, in relation to driveability and re-sale value. Driving a LHD car depends a lot on individual attitudes.
I and my family have had no problem with this, not just because we live in a low-traffic area. My younger son used our Quattro in London without difficulty, and my wife ditto on long journeys to the Midlands.
Re-sale value and import problems may be another thing altogether, and Walter U could perhaps advise on this. Can you go to Germany, buy a car, and simply bring it here without the need for expensive modifications?
Do they have their version of our HPI check I wonder, and when it comes to re-sale can you take it back to Germany and sell it without any red tape?
Walter?
Rich, it probably is just too cheap. High mileage? Early 996? Several owners?
We run into the LHD question here, in relation to driveability and re-sale value. Driving a LHD car depends a lot on individual attitudes.
I and my family have had no problem with this, not just because we live in a low-traffic area. My younger son used our Quattro in London without difficulty, and my wife ditto on long journeys to the Midlands.
Re-sale value and import problems may be another thing altogether, and Walter U could perhaps advise on this. Can you go to Germany, buy a car, and simply bring it here without the need for expensive modifications?
Do they have their version of our HPI check I wonder, and when it comes to re-sale can you take it back to Germany and sell it without any red tape?
Walter?
I have imported a couple of cars from Germany, and it's not too bad, although has got harder now that they insist on type approval (SVA?).
"Can you go to Germany, buy a car, and simply bring it here without the need for expensive modifications?"
Yes, in essence, you can. As long as it is over 6 months old to avoid VAT, and over 3 years old to avoid import duty (AFAIK). So second hand cars are the best to bring in.
Then you need to get it through an MoT (offside fog light needed, UK spec headlights plus other bits 'n' pieces - I think that a kmh speedo is still acceptable, as long as it works), get it registered (pay some dosh to DVLA) and now get it through type approval. This means getting a certificate/letter from Porsche (for about 80 quid I think) and making sure your car is to UK spec. Oh, and if this part requires an SVA test (I think it does) it'll cost you 500 quid.
Job done... eventually! It used to be quicker, as 'personal imports' were exempt from type approval if you could prove thye car was used over there. Proof was normally a few petrol receipts and ferry tickets etc., so use was often a few hours drive back from the dealer!
"Do they have their version of our HPI check I wonder"
Not sure. I used to wing it. It's safer to buy from a main dealer, for sure.
"and when it comes to re-sale can you take it back to Germany and sell it without any red tape?"
Well, it'll be UK spec and be UK registered. CArs are normally cheaper there, so not much point. Otherwise, keep the old bits, convert it back and see if they would be interested in re-registering it. Not worth the hassle, probably.
As far as driving is concerned, I have an LHD and RHD car at the moment, and swap between them with ease. Don't even think about the differences any more. It just isn't an issue once you get used to it - there are pros and cons either way. Biggest LHD killer is that UK resale is about 20% below RHD on average, and that s/h market is much more limited/specialist.
Moral - buy LHD, but buy it to keep.
Oh, and I'm selling my Lotus Omega at the moment, so 'keep' for me means 18 months! I was getting through a car every nine...
Cheers
Domster
"Can you go to Germany, buy a car, and simply bring it here without the need for expensive modifications?"
Yes, in essence, you can. As long as it is over 6 months old to avoid VAT, and over 3 years old to avoid import duty (AFAIK). So second hand cars are the best to bring in.
Then you need to get it through an MoT (offside fog light needed, UK spec headlights plus other bits 'n' pieces - I think that a kmh speedo is still acceptable, as long as it works), get it registered (pay some dosh to DVLA) and now get it through type approval. This means getting a certificate/letter from Porsche (for about 80 quid I think) and making sure your car is to UK spec. Oh, and if this part requires an SVA test (I think it does) it'll cost you 500 quid.
Job done... eventually! It used to be quicker, as 'personal imports' were exempt from type approval if you could prove thye car was used over there. Proof was normally a few petrol receipts and ferry tickets etc., so use was often a few hours drive back from the dealer!
"Do they have their version of our HPI check I wonder"
Not sure. I used to wing it. It's safer to buy from a main dealer, for sure.
"and when it comes to re-sale can you take it back to Germany and sell it without any red tape?"
Well, it'll be UK spec and be UK registered. CArs are normally cheaper there, so not much point. Otherwise, keep the old bits, convert it back and see if they would be interested in re-registering it. Not worth the hassle, probably.
As far as driving is concerned, I have an LHD and RHD car at the moment, and swap between them with ease. Don't even think about the differences any more. It just isn't an issue once you get used to it - there are pros and cons either way. Biggest LHD killer is that UK resale is about 20% below RHD on average, and that s/h market is much more limited/specialist.
Moral - buy LHD, but buy it to keep.
Oh, and I'm selling my Lotus Omega at the moment, so 'keep' for me means 18 months! I was getting through a car every nine...
Cheers
Domster
Useful stuff guys. Personally don't think I could see myself going through all the hassle to import SH from Germany, I can't spare the time off work to go searching, though would be fun I guess!
Buying a LHD here is very much a possiblilty given that you get more for your money. I only drove a LHD car for the first time this summer (Spain) but had no problems.
Figure the real issue on UK roads would be overtaking, guess you have to be a bit more careful given the restricted view from the 'wrong' side. How do you cope with that?
Buying a LHD here is very much a possiblilty given that you get more for your money. I only drove a LHD car for the first time this summer (Spain) but had no problems.
Figure the real issue on UK roads would be overtaking, guess you have to be a bit more careful given the restricted view from the 'wrong' side. How do you cope with that?
There are points to note with LHD cars and overtaking:
1) In theory, you should look down the inside of a car you are overtaking, to check for cars leaving junctions etc. in the distance. This is easier in a LHD car than a RHD car.
2) Visibility is worse on the offside, of course, but is only severly impaired if you are tailgating. At a safe distance, the difference in views between LHD and RHD is less than imagined.
3) If you have a decent car, the 'hanging back' distance isn't so important. I can gain a hundred yards in a few seconds in my LHD Lotus Carlton.
4) In the tragic instance of a collision, the driver of a LHD car is more protected, as he is furthest away from nearside traffic. RHD drivers tend to come off worse. I must point out here that this only relates to instances where the LHD car has an empty passenger seat, and that overtakes should always be taken extremely safely and with due regard for others.
Other benefits:
- Easier to ask questions from pedestrians
- Stepping out onto pavement, not into traffic
Other disbenefits:
- Ticketed barrier machines
- Toll bridges
One other legendary benefit that happened to a solicitor friend of my dad:
- The police tried charging his passenger with a motoring 'driving' offence, after coming to the window of the car at nighttime and inviting them to 'step out of the car'. On confirming the reg number in court, the solicitor (defending himself) revealed that the car was LHD and that the police were charging the wrong person. Verdict: case thrown out.
1) In theory, you should look down the inside of a car you are overtaking, to check for cars leaving junctions etc. in the distance. This is easier in a LHD car than a RHD car.
2) Visibility is worse on the offside, of course, but is only severly impaired if you are tailgating. At a safe distance, the difference in views between LHD and RHD is less than imagined.
3) If you have a decent car, the 'hanging back' distance isn't so important. I can gain a hundred yards in a few seconds in my LHD Lotus Carlton.
4) In the tragic instance of a collision, the driver of a LHD car is more protected, as he is furthest away from nearside traffic. RHD drivers tend to come off worse. I must point out here that this only relates to instances where the LHD car has an empty passenger seat, and that overtakes should always be taken extremely safely and with due regard for others.
Other benefits:
- Easier to ask questions from pedestrians
- Stepping out onto pavement, not into traffic
Other disbenefits:
- Ticketed barrier machines
- Toll bridges
One other legendary benefit that happened to a solicitor friend of my dad:
- The police tried charging his passenger with a motoring 'driving' offence, after coming to the window of the car at nighttime and inviting them to 'step out of the car'. On confirming the reg number in court, the solicitor (defending himself) revealed that the car was LHD and that the police were charging the wrong person. Verdict: case thrown out.
quote:
No catch.
Just look at www.mobile.de and do a conversion between EUR and GBP.
Remember that the 996 ain't no spring chicken, and that they've churned out quite a few now... some of which are high mileage autobahn munchers.
Also, they were much cheaper in Germany than the UK, at launch. I think new list is something like 49k in Germany.
Well worth considering as a scond hand buy, to be honest.
Rgds
Domster
current base new price around DEM 143,000.00, exchange rate around 3.15, so that's around 45,500.00 pounds sterling.
Rip-off Britain ...
But IIRC no 3 year warranty in Germany.
Rgds, WalterU
like it McNab!
Have to go through a barrier to get to work. Looks like I'd just need a pass card on a stick....
Cheers for the tips Domster, as you say on a decent road then from the left you should be able to see pretty much as well, and if its that twisty then you shouldn't be overtaking LHD or not!
I've only seen the one left hooker up for grabs so far, anyone know of somewhere that would specialise?
Have to go through a barrier to get to work. Looks like I'd just need a pass card on a stick....
Cheers for the tips Domster, as you say on a decent road then from the left you should be able to see pretty much as well, and if its that twisty then you shouldn't be overtaking LHD or not!
I've only seen the one left hooker up for grabs so far, anyone know of somewhere that would specialise?
Glad to help.
The 996 is still a rare LHD s/h buy in this country.
It would really be a case of bringing one back yourself, or keeping your eyes peeled in The Sunday Times, 911 and Porsche World classifieds etc.
For most LHD cars, it is just as cheap and less hassle to get one that has already been imported. (Not the 996, as of yet).
Re LHD cars and tolls/barriers, I used my LHD 944 cab every day at a company that had a card barrier system. No hassle getting out, but you did get the odd smirk from RHD colleagues in Fiestas etc.
Memorable toll experiences:
- Dartford tunnel. Darts skills came into the fore as I wound down passenger window electrically (always a good LHD option!) and threw a pound coin into the basket at twice the distance. Would have kept throwing quids in as necessary, as would have been too embarrassing to get out if I'd missed!
- Severn bridge. Went to manned toll booth. I apologised for having to get out, bloke said 'if I had a car like that (silver 944 cab) I would be happy to get out for toll bridges...' Fair enough, really. These are nice cars we are talking about, not LHD Metros!
PS McNab's net idea is pure genius!!!
Edited by domster on Wednesday 23 January 17:15
The 996 is still a rare LHD s/h buy in this country.
It would really be a case of bringing one back yourself, or keeping your eyes peeled in The Sunday Times, 911 and Porsche World classifieds etc.
For most LHD cars, it is just as cheap and less hassle to get one that has already been imported. (Not the 996, as of yet).
Re LHD cars and tolls/barriers, I used my LHD 944 cab every day at a company that had a card barrier system. No hassle getting out, but you did get the odd smirk from RHD colleagues in Fiestas etc.
Memorable toll experiences:
- Dartford tunnel. Darts skills came into the fore as I wound down passenger window electrically (always a good LHD option!) and threw a pound coin into the basket at twice the distance. Would have kept throwing quids in as necessary, as would have been too embarrassing to get out if I'd missed!
- Severn bridge. Went to manned toll booth. I apologised for having to get out, bloke said 'if I had a car like that (silver 944 cab) I would be happy to get out for toll bridges...' Fair enough, really. These are nice cars we are talking about, not LHD Metros!
PS McNab's net idea is pure genius!!!
Edited by domster on Wednesday 23 January 17:15
Other dodge: if you're using cards or tickets get a short stick (2'6"). Visit architect. Pinch nice shiny clip off his drawing board. Drill hole in end of clip. Screw clip to end of stick. Insert card/ticket in clip. Poke in direction of toll man.
Awkward if there's a strong wind and the card/ticket blows away. Never happened to me, but these clips need regular forcible adjustment just to be sure.
Awkward if there's a strong wind and the card/ticket blows away. Never happened to me, but these clips need regular forcible adjustment just to be sure. my only tip for anybody considering a LHD 996 is to adjust the seat runners by 90 degrees. That way the seat slides left to right, thus enabling easy car park barrier access etc.
in all seriousness dealers are now selling RHD 996's for 40k, with a bit of negotiation say 38K. I was told trade money is now 34K upwards so if you wait a bit you could have a RHD one for the same money.
Bennno
Edited by bennno on Wednesday 23 January 21:24
in all seriousness dealers are now selling RHD 996's for 40k, with a bit of negotiation say 38K. I was told trade money is now 34K upwards so if you wait a bit you could have a RHD one for the same money.
Bennno
Edited by bennno on Wednesday 23 January 21:24
quote:
McNab wrote:
Dom, that's a good site.
Do they have their version of our HPI check I wonder, and when it comes to re-sale can you take it back to Germany and sell it without any red tape?
Walter?
www.mobile.de is AFAIK currently the biggest of its kind.
The insurers have their own database. Its a totally different system in Germany.
By tendency new prices are lower in Germany, but used values hold up better, so its probably only really worth importing a new car.
Go to a reputable dealer. He will get you a customs number plate to take the car out. You don't pay german VAT IIRC, but have to pay UK VAT on import.
Headlights must be switchable to RHD, or have to be replaced. As for english buraecracy - you lot know that better than I do!
With a Used car you will a white document called "Kfz.-Brief". Hang on to this for dear life. Under german law it is proof of ownership, without it you cannot register a car in Germany. If someone else gets the Kfz.-Brief, you have a major problem proving that you own the car.
When you export it back to Germany, put the german headlights back in. You will need a new Kfz.-Brief - the old one expires if the car has been off the road in Germany for more than one year. You send in the old one, they fill out a new one using the info in the old one. New Kfz.-Brief costs around 50 Quid. Go to the TÜV - pay 60 quid - and that's about it.
Rgds, WalterU
Many thanks Walter. Doesn't sound nearly as difficult as I had expected, and all things said and done the new car option sounds best.
Wish people here weren't so hesitant about LHD, because that's where you'd come unstuck when you wanted to sell. LHD would probably rule out part-exchange for a new car at most Brit dealerships.
Wish people here weren't so hesitant about LHD, because that's where you'd come unstuck when you wanted to sell. LHD would probably rule out part-exchange for a new car at most Brit dealerships.
quote:
I was told trade money is now 34K upwards so if you wait a bit you could have a RHD one for the same money
I suppose I could wait... But that would be boring. If the RHD ones really are going to be on dealer forecourts at 35k in the summer then maybe I could hang on.. If thats the case then a LHD car at 33k probably isn't a particularly good investment...
I figured porsche residuals were rock solid though, ho hum. Looks like maybe a 993 is a better option.
quote:
Many thanks Walter. Doesn't sound nearly as difficult as I had expected, and all things said and done the new car option sounds best.
Wish people here weren't so hesitant about LHD, because that's where you'd come unstuck when you wanted to sell. LHD would probably rule out part-exchange for a new car at most Brit dealerships.
no it isn't difficult, but it takes time.
LHD does rule out part exchange in Britain - as I know by personal experience. But then cars are much cheaper in Germany anyway, so I buy my cars in Germany.
But its one of the reasons why I won't buy TVR. The list price of a Chim in Germany is higher than a Carrera 2.
When the exchange rate was DM 2.2 per pound, car prices were more or less on a par. A Vauxhall Omega cost about 1500 quid less than a german Omega. But then the pound went through the roof, and the prices for imported goods, which could have dropped around 50%, just stayed the same. Talk about windfall profits ...
Rgds, WalterU
Edited by WalterU on Thursday 24th January 11:04
i got mine for 42K 3 months ago, it is a late S reg with 29K miles. I would say it is a good spec with sports seats, sunroof, traction control, sports suspension kit, 18" split rims, sports s/wheel, full leather, sports exhaust etc...
i have seen on the official web site that there are some 97/98 R reg cars around with 40-50K miles on which are up for £41-£42 but with no part ex and deft negotiation dip under the 40K mark.
I did take a look at a LHD 360 modena and was told trade on mine is between 35-38K so it should be possible to do the deal!
Bennno
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