Scuffers - Early S1 suspension setup - geometry?
Discussion
Hi all,
My March 1998 S1 is going in for a corner weighting suspension setup in a weeks time. It will get the factory standard reinstated unless I have any other settings to give them.
Simon Scuffham - I recall you posted a few combinations on the lotus BBS about 5-6 years ago, but they are no longer available on the search. Do you have anything that would suit a road going Elise S1?
Help appreciated,
Chad.
My March 1998 S1 is going in for a corner weighting suspension setup in a weeks time. It will get the factory standard reinstated unless I have any other settings to give them.
Simon Scuffham - I recall you posted a few combinations on the lotus BBS about 5-6 years ago, but they are no longer available on the search. Do you have anything that would suit a road going Elise S1?
Help appreciated,
Chad.
It all depends on what you are trying to achieve. For starters:
1) What suspension and tyres are you running?
2) Do you use the car on track?
3) What's your basic driving style - in other words what do you want the car to do differently to what it does now?
My own geo has gone through several variations. I had an initial geo that seemed to rapidly alternate between understeer and severe lift-off oversteer, depending on whether it was a left or a right corner. Not comforting I can tell you. I then had a "Plans" geo - very stable at the rear with good turn-in, but the toe-in at the rear (over 2mm in each side) caused me to go through tyres at an incredible rate (a set of rear 048's in one afternoon at Silverstone). My current setup is not too far from the 340R track settings, but with less rear toe in.
For most cars and useage the 340R road settings are not a terrible starting point, though how anyone measures a total toe out of 0.2mm is beyond me. It is difficult in practical terms to get more accurate than 0.5mm total.
340R Road Front camber: -0.5° Front toe: 0.2mm OUT Overall Rear camber: -2.0° Rear toe: 1.5mm IN each side
340R Track Front camber: -1.8° Front toe: 0.5mm OUT Overall Rear camber: -2.7° Rear toe: 2.5mm IN each side
Neither of these settings is what I run BTW. Mine is closer to -1° front camber, running very nearly parallel and -2.5° rear camber with no more than 1mm toe in each side. I can rotate the car more easily at the expense of a slightly less glued rear end, but the tyre wear is excellent compared to previously. FWIW it's an S2 honda running nitrons on 110/120 ride height on 425/550 eibach springs. I would probably run more negative camber at the front, but some machining work would be required to get more than I currently have and I have not got around to doing it yet.
In general, standard castor settings have seemed fine to me, though hopefully some people with more expertise will comment on this.
1) What suspension and tyres are you running?
2) Do you use the car on track?
3) What's your basic driving style - in other words what do you want the car to do differently to what it does now?
My own geo has gone through several variations. I had an initial geo that seemed to rapidly alternate between understeer and severe lift-off oversteer, depending on whether it was a left or a right corner. Not comforting I can tell you. I then had a "Plans" geo - very stable at the rear with good turn-in, but the toe-in at the rear (over 2mm in each side) caused me to go through tyres at an incredible rate (a set of rear 048's in one afternoon at Silverstone). My current setup is not too far from the 340R track settings, but with less rear toe in.
For most cars and useage the 340R road settings are not a terrible starting point, though how anyone measures a total toe out of 0.2mm is beyond me. It is difficult in practical terms to get more accurate than 0.5mm total.
340R Road Front camber: -0.5° Front toe: 0.2mm OUT Overall Rear camber: -2.0° Rear toe: 1.5mm IN each side
340R Track Front camber: -1.8° Front toe: 0.5mm OUT Overall Rear camber: -2.7° Rear toe: 2.5mm IN each side
Neither of these settings is what I run BTW. Mine is closer to -1° front camber, running very nearly parallel and -2.5° rear camber with no more than 1mm toe in each side. I can rotate the car more easily at the expense of a slightly less glued rear end, but the tyre wear is excellent compared to previously. FWIW it's an S2 honda running nitrons on 110/120 ride height on 425/550 eibach springs. I would probably run more negative camber at the front, but some machining work would be required to get more than I currently have and I have not got around to doing it yet.
In general, standard castor settings have seemed fine to me, though hopefully some people with more expertise will comment on this.
Edited by shangani on Tuesday 12th August 13:13
chucklebutty said:
Hi all,
My March 1998 S1 is going in for a corner weighting suspension setup in a weeks time. It will get the factory standard reinstated unless I have any other settings to give them.
Simon Scuffham - I recall you posted a few combinations on the lotus BBS about 5-6 years ago, but they are no longer available on the search. Do you have anything that would suit a road going Elise S1?
Help appreciated,
Chad.
As said, rather depends what your going to do with it etc..My March 1998 S1 is going in for a corner weighting suspension setup in a weeks time. It will get the factory standard reinstated unless I have any other settings to give them.
Simon Scuffham - I recall you posted a few combinations on the lotus BBS about 5-6 years ago, but they are no longer available on the search. Do you have anything that would suit a road going Elise S1?
Help appreciated,
Chad.
Assuming it's still on it's orriginal bushes etc (which by now must be well tired), and for road use, go with:
Front Chamber 1 degree
Rear camber 1.5-2 degrees
Front toe 0.5 - 1mm out total
rear toe 1mm a side
leave castor etc to book.
Thanks everyone. You guys!!
Only road use needed. It's a standard S1 (not even the VVC) on the original bushes - so probably due for replacement - but it only does 150 miles a year!!
I had a look on the SELOC tech wiki but was obviously not "seeing" that section.
I'll ask for the setting Simon recommends.
Only road use needed. It's a standard S1 (not even the VVC) on the original bushes - so probably due for replacement - but it only does 150 miles a year!!
I had a look on the SELOC tech wiki but was obviously not "seeing" that section.
I'll ask for the setting Simon recommends.
Wow - thanks you Simon. Just had it done and it looked like whoever HR Owen used to set the car up may not have realised it needed weights in the footwells.
The front end float has gone and the back is less twitchy too. I am writing this up for Club Lotus magazine and should be in the next issue. Big thanks to Tony Bones at Wheels in Motion (Chesham) for explaining the functionality of the Hunter Hawkeye they use.
The front end float has gone and the back is less twitchy too. I am writing this up for Club Lotus magazine and should be in the next issue. Big thanks to Tony Bones at Wheels in Motion (Chesham) for explaining the functionality of the Hunter Hawkeye they use.
Edited by chucklebutty on Monday 18th August 19:20
chucklebutty said:
Wow - thanks you Simon. Just had it done and it looked like whoever HR Owen used to set the car up may not have realied it needed weights in the footwells.
The front end float has gone and the back is less twitchy too. I am writing this up for Club Lotus magazine and should be in the next issue. Big thanks to Tony Bones at Wheels in Motion (Chesham) for explaining the functionality of the Hunter Hawkeye they use.
no worries, just pleased your car is better (and safer!)The front end float has gone and the back is less twitchy too. I am writing this up for Club Lotus magazine and should be in the next issue. Big thanks to Tony Bones at Wheels in Motion (Chesham) for explaining the functionality of the Hunter Hawkeye they use.
Rear needed less adjustment. I have the following:
Rear Axle Before After
Camber (L) -2"03' -2"00'
Camber (R) -2"11' -2"10'
Toe (L) 0"12' 0"12'
Toe (R) 0"11' 0"13'
Front Axle Before After
Camber (L) -0"05' -1"02'
Camber (R) -0"40' -1"00'
Toe (L) -0"07' -0"04'
Toe (R) -0"25' -0"10'
Caster (L) 4"05' 4"00'
Caster (R) 4"07' 4"09'
Rear Axle Before After
Camber (L) -2"03' -2"00'
Camber (R) -2"11' -2"10'
Toe (L) 0"12' 0"12'
Toe (R) 0"11' 0"13'
Front Axle Before After
Camber (L) -0"05' -1"02'
Camber (R) -0"40' -1"00'
Toe (L) -0"07' -0"04'
Toe (R) -0"25' -0"10'
Caster (L) 4"05' 4"00'
Caster (R) 4"07' 4"09'
. Although he may have found it twitchy beforehand... 
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