Canon 400D or Nikon D70?

[pincher]

Following on from ehyouwhat's Best way to learn? thread, I'm more or less in the same boat, except that I am hopeless at taking pictures but really want to learn after seeing some of our group's Le Mans efforts.

I know that I am going to have to read books, go on courses etc to learn the real basics of photography, but it is something that interests me which brings me on to the point of this post - I have no idea whether I am going to be any good at it, so don't want to splash a huge amount of cash buying all the lastest kit ('all the gear, no idea' scenario!). I've been looking on Ebay at Canon 400D's and could probably get a second-hand body only for around £250, possibly a little cheaper. Add on to that the cost of a half-decent lens(es) and it soon starts to stack up.

The other option I discovered yesterday is that a colleague has a Nikon D70 that he hasn't used for a couple of years (replaced it with a D200 I believe). I think he'll probably want less than £150 for it, again body-only. The downside to me is that the Canon is 10MP, whereas the Nikon is only 6MP.

So, should I go the cheaper route and sacrifice megapixels whilst I a)learn and more importantly b)find out if I can get to be halfway decent at taking pictures and upgrade later, or just take the plunge and go for the more expensive option?

[Don]

D70 is a GREAT camera. We still have mine - the wife uses it coupled to the brilliant 18-200mm VR super zoom lens. Perfect for travel photography as it's the only lens you need!

6mp prints at A4 are superb quality. I now have a 12mp D2X but at A4 I doubt you could tell the difference. Sure at A3 you might...

AT £150 it's a bargain.

[Bob_Defly]

Don't worry about the MPixels, the D70 is a great camera! I have a D40 which is also 6MP, again you can print out at A4 and they look great!







I now have a D300 but won't get rid of the D40 as I love it.

[Simpo Two]

pincher said:

The other option I discovered yesterday is that a colleague has a Nikon D70 that he hasn't used for a couple of years (replaced it with a D200 I believe).

Snap. It was the D70 that catapulted me from hobbyist to the point where I'm now making a living from photography.

I wouldn't worry about the 6Mp issue; I've had excellent prints up to A3 and they look absolutely fine. Obviously technology has moved on in the four years since the D70 came out, and compared to current DSLRs you'll find it's not very good in low light (noisy over ISO400) and the LCD screen is small, but if you want to learn about digital SLR photography on a budget, it's great. I also found it very ergonomic to use.

Edited by Simpo Two on Tuesday 15th July 10:08

[cliff123]

D70 is a great camera, go with that. In addition, you won't have to deal with the menu canon menu system (which i just don't like) and when you start upgrading all your lenses, the Nikon stuff is just marginally cheaper. D70 is a super camera producing great quality images. Don't worry about the resolution, I had used the D70 for several wedding shoots and had no problem with large size prints from it.

[pincher]

Firstly, many thanks for your replies- it's much friendlier in here than the P&P

It looks like a D70 may be the way to go to start off with

As I said, I really am a beginner, only ever having done 'point & shoot' with a compact before, so it will be a steep leaning curve. For example

Simpo Two said:

...you'll find it's not very good in low light (noisy over ISO400)

doesn't mean an awful lot to me, so I think I'll be buying a book or two.

Mr Simpo, is there any chance you could send me your 'Well Known Guide for Idiots (2nd Edition)'?

Finally (for now), what recommendations do you have for a starter lens that is reasonably cheap?

[chris.mapey]

I still use my D70 when shooting at a wedding.

I have a D300 for the main part of the day, and when I fancy a break during capturing reception candid shots (it's heavy old beast with a decent lens, battery grip & flash) I use the D70 with a 50mm lens on it (lovely & light) and does not shout "CAMERA" to all & sundry, so you can capture some decent shots.

I have some cracking shots taken on it (most of the ones on my site, as I only upgraded recently) and having seen how little they make as a used camera, I'd wholeheartedly recommend one to you.

Start with the 18-70 lens as well, and it's a great kit to start with, as yuou can use it in fully auto as a point & shoot (all you have to do is zoom) and then as you want to "fiddle" (note the technical terms ) you can "grow" into taking more control of what you want the camera to achieve.

HTH

Chris

[pincher]

Thanks Chris - should I forget about an 18-55mm lens to start with then?

[chris.mapey]

pincher said:

Thanks Chris - should I forget about an 18-55mm lens to start with then?

The 18-55 is a fine lens, but the 18-70 is a "better" lens - ED in Nikon speak, and it's the one I bought with my D70 - seems a slightly more robust lens than the mainly plastic 18-55.

Either one will get you started well, but I feel that you'll get more value from the 18-70 than the 18-55 when your photography skills mature a bit (if you get what I mean)

Chris

[Dai Capp]

pincher said:

Finally (for now), what recommendations do you have for a starter lens that is reasonably cheap?

I have a 400d (I'm not going to suggest a change of heart and chuck a spanner in the works) but in terms of lens I have a 50mm F1.8 lens and I absolutely love it. It gives a really shallow depth of field when you want it and good sharp images.

This is what I mean by shallow depth of field ie in focus object and heavy background blur:





and a more normal shot of the front of our house:



I'm a beginner too, so the pics aren't fabulous and with the exception of a crop on the first pic are straight out of the camera, but if you don't want a long zoom and you get a good deal on a kit lens which will give you decent reach then the Nikon equivalent of this lens may be worth thinking about.

I got the 18-55mm kit lens and then bought the Sigma 70-300mm but if I'd known then what I know now the 50mm would have been the second lens I got.

The Canon one is cheap too at £70, which helps, so Nikon may do a rival for it...

Cheers

DC

Edited by Dai Capp on Thursday 17th July 18:34

[Simpo Two]

Dai Capp said:

The Canon one is cheap too at £70, which helps, so Nikon may do a rival for it...

Yep, the 50mm f1.8 for £70

[rustyspit]

Dai Capp said:

I have a 50mm F1.8 lens and I absolutely love it.
........
The Canon one is cheap too at £70, which helps, so Nikon may do a rival for it...

Nikon do indeed have an equivalent 50mm lens, but while it is excellent quality for the price I wouldn't suggest it as the first lens for the OP - I find it very good for portraits, but a bit too long as a do-everything walk-around lens. If you did want a prime lens to do everything with I'd suggest the 35mm f2 - more expensive admittedly, but much more useful as an everyday lens.

Overall I'd say either the 18-55 or 18-70 would be the best bet to start with. As Chris said, the 18-55 would be OK and the cheapest option, but the 18-70 is probably better value overall and will last you longer - you could probably get a secondhand one on ebay for just over £100ish.

[pincher]

Got the camera on loan yesterday and he's also supplied a Nikon fixed 50mm lens. Doesn't seem to work on Auto mode though - is that right?

However, he can't find the software cd at the moment (a good price negotiating point! ), so what do I need to download to get started (Mac preferred but could use Windows if I have to)?

[Simpo Two]

pincher said:

Got the camera on loan yesterday and he's also supplied a Nikon fixed 50mm lens. Doesn't seem to work on Auto mode though - is that right?

If the display says F-EE you probably need to turn the aperture ring to the smallest aperture and lock it with the sliding tab.

[Andy M]

pincher said:

However, he can't find the software cd at the moment (a good price negotiating point! ), so what do I need to download to get started (Mac preferred but could use Windows if I have to)?

Lightroom

Incidentally, I'd go for the 400D every time

Edited by Andy M on Friday 18th July 23:45

[pincher]

Simpo Two said:

pincher said:

Got the camera on loan yesterday and he's also supplied a Nikon fixed 50mm lens. Doesn't seem to work on Auto mode though - is that right?

If the display says F-EE you probably need to turn the aperture ring to the smallest aperture and lock it with the sliding tab.

It's F --

[rustyspit]

pincher said:

Simpo Two said:

pincher said:

Got the camera on loan yesterday and he's also supplied a Nikon fixed 50mm lens. Doesn't seem to work on Auto mode though - is that right?

If the display says F-EE you probably need to turn the aperture ring to the smallest aperture and lock it with the sliding tab.

It's F --

I think that can indicate a poor connection between the lens and body (assuming it is an autofocus lens?), but as Simpo says - check that the aperture ring is locked at the smallest aperture (i.e. largest F-number). It may also be worth taking the lens off and putting it on again (make sure the camera is turned off when you do that).

Edited by rustyspit on Saturday 19th July 13:35

[pincher]

It's a manual focus lens - exactly the same as this one

I guess that's why I am getting the F --

Jeez, I really need some lessons

Edited by pincher on Saturday 19th July 13:53

[rustyspit]

pincher said:

It's a manual focus lens - exactly the same as this one

I guess that's why I am getting the F --

Jeez, I really need some lessons

Edited by pincher on Saturday 19th July 13:53

Modern Nikon lenses have a chip in them which tells the camera what type of lens it is. Nikon consumer digital bodies (i.e. D40,50,60,70,80) will only work in manual mode with lenses which do not have that chip (the 'pro' bodies have the facility to enter the lens details manually).

As a general rule (with a very few exceptions), autofocus lenses will have the chip, manual focus lenses do not.

Edited by rustyspit on Saturday 19th July 14:05

[Simpo Two]

Remember too that 'Auto' is an ambiguous term. There's Automatic Focus (AF) and Automatic Exposure (AE) - both competely different things.