Discussion
My personal opinion is that they don't suit the character of the car, but then I want a classic look on mine. Plus you have to cut the front arches to get them to fit, and I think Rover had to shim subframes to get them to fit as well.
Don't know what it does to the handling as I have only ever driven minis on 10's.
Don't know what it does to the handling as I have only ever driven minis on 10's.
Hmmm, I've driven 10's, 12's and 13's on various minis of various states of tune. Personally I think 10's are the best looking, and if I get to build a mini from scratch it'll run 10's. The consensus of opinon is that 165 is as wide as you *need* to go on a mini, anything more increases the rolling resistance (standard late coopers have lower 0-60 and higher top speed than SportsPack for that reason alone !!). ERA agreed when they made their Mini turbo, using the same size tyres as Rover did with the MG Metro Turbo at 165/55/13. However fashion dictates, and there are more tyre options available in 175/50/13 than 165/55/13. I've seen some 195/45/13's around too.....
IMHO Rover got it all wrong when they fitted the SportsPack wheels, they increased the ride height, cut back the wings, fitted steering lock stops and got the wheel offset all wrong. And yes, those sportspack wheels are very heavy. Not sure about the Revolution 5 spokes fitted to export (i.e. german) models.
My car, which has 13" Minilite replica's doesn't tram-line or bump-steer, has standard ride height and a standard steering rack, and although I've had to trim the front outside edge of the front wings it doesn't catch the inner wing on full lock. I think the biggest factor must be the offset on my wheels is correct where most others are too far out. Until recently all the suspension was standard and I didn't have any issues with grip or handling, even trackdays were no problem. Now I've got adjustable bits on, more for optimisation of settings than anything else.
IMHO Rover got it all wrong when they fitted the SportsPack wheels, they increased the ride height, cut back the wings, fitted steering lock stops and got the wheel offset all wrong. And yes, those sportspack wheels are very heavy. Not sure about the Revolution 5 spokes fitted to export (i.e. german) models.
My car, which has 13" Minilite replica's doesn't tram-line or bump-steer, has standard ride height and a standard steering rack, and although I've had to trim the front outside edge of the front wings it doesn't catch the inner wing on full lock. I think the biggest factor must be the offset on my wheels is correct where most others are too far out. Until recently all the suspension was standard and I didn't have any issues with grip or handling, even trackdays were no problem. Now I've got adjustable bits on, more for optimisation of settings than anything else.
Interesting.
OK next question, if you could get a set of 13's that weighed the same as say Denovos would there be no difference?
I understand that the lack of sidewall will have a lot to do with the handling characteristics but I am wondering on this weight issue.
Also, is there an ideal set up for castor, camber, toe in etc or will it vary car to car?
OK next question, if you could get a set of 13's that weighed the same as say Denovos would there be no difference?
I understand that the lack of sidewall will have a lot to do with the handling characteristics but I am wondering on this weight issue.
Also, is there an ideal set up for castor, camber, toe in etc or will it vary car to car?
Mines running 13’s and was quicker than a number of cars on 10’s and 12’s round the corners at Goodwood, I love the look of 13’s, yes they do tramline a bit on badly rutted roads but it does with the standard 12’s as well. Personally I think if the car has an older look, gp2 arches etc then they look better on 10’s, the cars with wider more modern look suit the 13’s, I don’t like 12’s at all.
How you doing with the top arm?
How you doing with the top arm?
Got it to budge a bit more last night. Its now very nearly consumed an entire can of WD40 but it is moving slightly.
Odd thing was when I tightened it all back up it moved up and down fine, however when the pivot shaft is moved forward it needs wiggling to release before it will move further.
At least I know it will come out now though...
Odd thing was when I tightened it all back up it moved up and down fine, however when the pivot shaft is moved forward it needs wiggling to release before it will move further.
At least I know it will come out now though...
The biggest problem with 13" wheels is that they screw up the steering geometry which was originally designed for 3.5" x 10" steel wheels on the original '59 cars. I do think that my original '61 Mini handled better than any other Mini I've ever driven, but perhaps that's just nostalgia on my part.
The original Cooper 'S' had 3.5" x 10" and they were offset to give the same track as the original 850. Most Cooper 'S's had the 4.5" option fitted, whilst rally and race cars had up to 6" wide. On my Historic rally car I run the 4.5" Minilite replicas or the 5" BWA alloys. These have the inward offset so that I don't even need wheel arch extensions. Its handling is super and very predictable, even on gravel.
There is no doubt that the nearer you can get to the original track width the better the steering and handling.
I do believe that 13" wheels are best left for those for whom appearance is more important than handling. The optimum width for any Mini tyre is 165 section. More than this and you lose the necessary contact pressure onto the road. This is particularly important in the wet.
12" wheels have to be fitted to the later disc-braked cars, but you can get 165 section tyres at 12".
Personally I would never, ever, go for the 13" for all the above reasons, and I only use 12" when 10" won't fit.
The original Cooper 'S' had 3.5" x 10" and they were offset to give the same track as the original 850. Most Cooper 'S's had the 4.5" option fitted, whilst rally and race cars had up to 6" wide. On my Historic rally car I run the 4.5" Minilite replicas or the 5" BWA alloys. These have the inward offset so that I don't even need wheel arch extensions. Its handling is super and very predictable, even on gravel.
There is no doubt that the nearer you can get to the original track width the better the steering and handling.
I do believe that 13" wheels are best left for those for whom appearance is more important than handling. The optimum width for any Mini tyre is 165 section. More than this and you lose the necessary contact pressure onto the road. This is particularly important in the wet.
12" wheels have to be fitted to the later disc-braked cars, but you can get 165 section tyres at 12".
Personally I would never, ever, go for the 13" for all the above reasons, and I only use 12" when 10" won't fit.
I suppose it depends how far and where you want to go with the mini, mines fine with 13’s for road/trackday use, my 69 S replica was set up for track use, it was to harsh for the road but on smooth tarmac would was excellent that was running 10’s. Maybe you should go along to a mini meet and see if someone will take you out to compare the two, remember different suspension settings and tyres will make a huge difference though.
The pin is probably worn unevenly that’s why it only goes so far, still you got it on the run now
The pin is probably worn unevenly that’s why it only goes so far, still you got it on the run now
As the current set up is only temporary (when I put it back together) is the uneven wear going to cause me big problems or will packing it with grease be alright?
As the entire suspension set up is going to be rose jointed (as its going to be a track day toy) will that minimise the effects of 13's? 10's do look nice as well though so perhaps the trade off is there, brakes not an issue as they are being replaced anyway its just a case of choosing which 4 pots...
As the entire suspension set up is going to be rose jointed (as its going to be a track day toy) will that minimise the effects of 13's? 10's do look nice as well though so perhaps the trade off is there, brakes not an issue as they are being replaced anyway its just a case of choosing which 4 pots...
Might be worth getting new pins, don’t think they are expensive, suppose you could have a look what its like when it comes out, if it cleans up ok when then just put it back for the time being. Wheel size dictates how big the discs can be, smaller disc means less power usually, might be worth speaking to HiSpec in Dartford as they do lots of different callipers. I can get you a 4 pot metro setup from the front of my mates Mini that he’s about to scrap.
Woo Hoo!! 
Got the arm out (albeit with the nut now stuck on the end!
) and its worn but not too badly. Needle rollers are a bit solidly packed with bad grease though, but think I am just going to reassemble them.
Off to the local engineers tommorow morning to get this nut off and get the pins driven out and I'm sorted!
For degreasing the arms is petrol and a brush the best thing?
Oh and Paul, if you could find out how much your mate would want for those metro discs etc that would be very kind as I am interested...
Got the arm out (albeit with the nut now stuck on the end!
) and its worn but not too badly. Needle rollers are a bit solidly packed with bad grease though, but think I am just going to reassemble them. Off to the local engineers tommorow morning to get this nut off and get the pins driven out and I'm sorted!
For degreasing the arms is petrol and a brush the best thing?
Oh and Paul, if you could find out how much your mate would want for those metro discs etc that would be very kind as I am interested...
I am now wound up somewhat so have left it.
Got the other arm out finally, only for the needle bearing to collapse when I was getting the shock pin out.
Called round a few engineers, including a laughably named Mini centre to find 'Oooh dont do anything like pressing bearings in mate, have you tried John Cooper?'
Relented and bought a 2nd hand top arm off a 2001 Classic Sport from Mega - £45!
Now waiting for that to arrive before going to my local engineers (who can probably extract and press a bearing but are only open 3 days a week!) to get the shock pins pressed out.
With any luck it should all be back together Thursday though I am not holding my breath.
Do you know, if the metro top arms are the same as the mini top arms? This VTEC kit seems to use a metro subframe so wondered if they were the same...
Thinking of buying another one to tart up and sell though...
£25 sounds like a done deal to me!
>> Edited by plotloss on Monday 8th September 11:32
Got the other arm out finally, only for the needle bearing to collapse when I was getting the shock pin out.
Called round a few engineers, including a laughably named Mini centre to find 'Oooh dont do anything like pressing bearings in mate, have you tried John Cooper?'
Relented and bought a 2nd hand top arm off a 2001 Classic Sport from Mega - £45!
Now waiting for that to arrive before going to my local engineers (who can probably extract and press a bearing but are only open 3 days a week!) to get the shock pins pressed out.
With any luck it should all be back together Thursday though I am not holding my breath.
Do you know, if the metro top arms are the same as the mini top arms? This VTEC kit seems to use a metro subframe so wondered if they were the same...
Thinking of buying another one to tart up and sell though...
£25 sounds like a done deal to me!
>> Edited by plotloss on Monday 8th September 11:32
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