The Winter War 1939-1940

[Finlandia]

A tale of David fighting for survival against Goliath ,a very sobering event in the history of Nortern Europe.
Makes it even more so, because my father was in that regiment at the age of 15. He even lied about his age to be able to join the army. Later he was sent back from the front, but immeadetly when turning 16, which was the legal age, he was back to the Finnish/Russian frontline and remained there until the war ended.

I very much doubt that I would have what it takes, but those boys had, and I owe them my freedom.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ELfMprEbrI&NR=...

[DangerousMike]

the finns are rightly very proud of this.

sisu wins out

[rich1231]

There were brave men on both sides.

Try googling Cholm

[DangerousMike]

finlandia, do you know if this film is available with english subtitles?

[Finlandia]

Yes there were brave men on both sides, but the Russian troops outnumbered the Finnish troops by 10:1.

The Russians fought for fear of their leaders, the Finns fought for their land and people.

[Simpo Two]

True but guess who supplied them!

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Messerschm...

[Fruitcake]

Finlandia said:

Yes there were brave men on both sides, but the Russian troops outnumbered the Finnish troops by 10:1.

The Russians fought for fear of their leaders, the Finns fought for their land and people.

Sweeping generalisation alert.

Not quite true.

The Russians fought because of their leaders, not for them.

[rich1231]

Finlandia said:

Yes there were brave men on both sides, but the Russian troops outnumbered the Finnish troops by 10:1.

The Russians fought for fear of their leaders, the Finns fought for their land and people.

My point about Cholm was that there were some incredibly brave Germans involved.

[DangerousMike]

I've been through Viipuri which as far as I could tell was a bit of a dump. I wonder what it would be like if Karelia was still part of Finland - wasn't it one of the most industrialised areas of Finland when it ceded to the USSR after the war? I guess with it Finland could have progressed much faster after WW 2.

[Finlandia]

DangerousMike said:

finlandia, do you know if this film is available with english subtitles?

I'm not sure, but it is available in all Nordic languages

[Finlandia]

Fruitcake said:

Finlandia said:

Yes there were brave men on both sides, but the Russian troops outnumbered the Finnish troops by 10:1.

The Russians fought for fear of their leaders, the Finns fought for their land and people.

Sweeping generalisation alert.

Not quite true.

The Russians fought because of their leaders, not for them.

Which i what I said, they fought because they were afraid of their own leaders.

[DangerousMike]

hmmm, at least i can kind of read swedish... sort of... it makes more sense than bloody finnish anyway

kiitos

[Finlandia]

Simpo Two said:

True but guess who supplied them!

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Messerschm...

Finland and Germany had a pact that meant that Hitler wouldn't attack, as long as Finland kept the Russian troops occupied along the Finnish front and that SS would have free movement granted in Finland.

When Finland and Russia signed a seize fire agreement one of the conditions was that SS would be driven out of Finland, Russia offered help to do so but Finland declined in fear of being invaded.

When the remaining SS troops were driven out, they set alight everything they could throughout the entire country. When the war was over for Finland, we were left with a country in ruins, no industry, no farms, a big part of the population dead or injured and a massive repayment for damages of war to Russia.
Despite that we had all the odds stacked against us, we never gave up the fight, and never asked for or received any significant help from other countries.

[Finlandia]

DangerousMike said:

hmmm, at least i can kind of read swedish... sort of... it makes more sense than bloody finnish anyway

kiitos

Inga problem

[Fruitcake]

Finlandia said:

Fruitcake said:

Finlandia said:

Yes there were brave men on both sides, but the Russian troops outnumbered the Finnish troops by 10:1.

The Russians fought for fear of their leaders, the Finns fought for their land and people.

Sweeping generalisation alert.

Not quite true.

The Russians fought because of their leaders, not for them.

Which i what I said, they fought because they were afraid of their own leaders.

Apologies

[rich1231]

Fruitcake said:

Finlandia said:

Fruitcake said:

Finlandia said:

Yes there were brave men on both sides, but the Russian troops outnumbered the Finnish troops by 10:1.

The Russians fought for fear of their leaders, the Finns fought for their land and people.

Sweeping generalisation alert.

Not quite true.

The Russians fought because of their leaders, not for them.

Which i what I said, they fought because they were afraid of their own leaders.

Apologies

Not quite 100% true. And a bit unfair on the Russians that fought out of patriotism.

[Finlandia]

rich1231 said:

Fruitcake said:

Finlandia said:

Fruitcake said:

Finlandia said:

Yes there were brave men on both sides, but the Russian troops outnumbered the Finnish troops by 10:1.

The Russians fought for fear of their leaders, the Finns fought for their land and people.

Sweeping generalisation alert.

Not quite true.

The Russians fought because of their leaders, not for them.

Which i what I said, they fought because they were afraid of their own leaders.

Apologies

Not quite 100% true. And a bit unfair on the Russians that fought out of patriotism.

And what might the 100% waterproof, absolute truth be?
]X-Files on]Is it out there?[/X-Files off]

[rich1231]

Finlandia said:

rich1231 said:

Fruitcake said:

Finlandia said:

Fruitcake said:

Finlandia said:

Yes there were brave men on both sides, but the Russian troops outnumbered the Finnish troops by 10:1.

The Russians fought for fear of their leaders, the Finns fought for their land and people.

Sweeping generalisation alert.

Not quite true.

The Russians fought because of their leaders, not for them.

Which i what I said, they fought because they were afraid of their own leaders.

Apologies

Not quite 100% true. And a bit unfair on the Russians that fought out of patriotism.

And what might the 100% waterproof, absolute truth be?
]X-Files on]Is it out there?[/X-Files off]

Certainly not your assertion.

[Finlandia]

rich1231 said:

Finlandia said:

rich1231 said:

Fruitcake said:

Finlandia said:

Fruitcake said:

Finlandia said:

Yes there were brave men on both sides, but the Russian troops outnumbered the Finnish troops by 10:1.

The Russians fought for fear of their leaders, the Finns fought for their land and people.

Sweeping generalisation alert.

Not quite true.

The Russians fought because of their leaders, not for them.

Which i what I said, they fought because they were afraid of their own leaders.

Apologies

Not quite 100% true. And a bit unfair on the Russians that fought out of patriotism.

And what might the 100% waterproof, absolute truth be?
]X-Files on]Is it out there?[/X-Files off]

Certainly not your assertion.

And your view on this is?

Sure there were the ones that fought for patriotism, but the majority of the Russian soldiers were there because they were ordered to, and they did not dare to oppose the leaders.

[DangerousMike]

people on all sides were brave.

but finland successfully defended itself against a far larger, better equipped (with weapons and machinery, perhaps not skills) force...

so it was kind of a heroic effort.