Ferrari throws toys out of pram.
Discussion
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/3195365.stm
just cuz their not winning every race they get the law involved.
hope its proved legal or that the end of another season.
arse.
just cuz their not winning every race they get the law involved.
hope its proved legal or that the end of another season.
arse.
i to be given the title on a plate again. 
The rules state that the tires are to comply with the regulations when new and inflated to 1.4 BAR. It doesn't say anything about what happens during use or after the race. 270 mm max tread width. Bridgestones only use 220 mm.
It really looks like the FIA trying to help Ferrari as much as they can. I hope not, cause that would cast a shadow over one of the best seasons of racing I can remember for awhile.
Gary
It really looks like the FIA trying to help Ferrari as much as they can. I hope not, cause that would cast a shadow over one of the best seasons of racing I can remember for awhile.
Gary
It's pathetic!
How many other sport governing bodies change the rules mid season?
Imagine if FIFA changed the offside rule 1/2 way thru the World Cup?
COME ON FIA GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF BERNIES/SCHUI'S ARSE!!!!
The Michelin tyres were legal at the start of the season. And that's that! Good on them for thinking outside the square for improving tyre development. It's contributed to one of the best seasons for years!
How many other sport governing bodies change the rules mid season?
Imagine if FIFA changed the offside rule 1/2 way thru the World Cup?
COME ON FIA GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF BERNIES/SCHUI'S ARSE!!!!
The Michelin tyres were legal at the start of the season. And that's that! Good on them for thinking outside the square for improving tyre development. It's contributed to one of the best seasons for years!
did you expect them to admit it, I didn't 
itvf1 said:
Ross Brawn has revealed that Ferrari were responsible for alerting the FIA of their suspicions over Michelin’s tyres.
The technical boss told the Italian press that the team had contacted the sport’s governing body, despite Max Mosley's earlier claim that Ferrari hadn't been the source.
Brawn said Ferrari contacted the FIA after seeing photographs that proved their rivals, Williams and McLaren were using illegal tyres.
He told the Gazzetta dello Sport: "It all started in Budapest when Bridgestone got hold of some photos taken in the paddock by a Japanese.
"They showed in an unequivocal way that the front Michelin tyres had an excessively large tread at the end of the race or after being used.
"We turned to Charlie Whiting who, on the basis of his measurements and the photos, then sent the famous letter.
"We could have pretended to have seen nothing, to not let the FIA know and then lodge a complaint at the following race, but that didn't seem like the right thing to do."
Brawn estimated that the advantage in the wider tread could make a car half a second quicker.
But he fell short of saying that the advantage of the Michein tyres had been enough to explain Ferrari’s recent lack of pace.
He said: "You can't say that. But it's clear that if you take an advantage like that away from the competition you'll find yourself in a better position."
He also said he hoped that Michelin would change their tyres for the next race so Ferrari would not have to make a protest after the Italian GP.
He said: "I hope it does not come to that, that Michelin realise that they have enjoyed an illegal advantage for so long, too long, and that they conform to what the FIA sets out. In any case, it's a problem for the sporting authorities."
If Gary is correct in what he says, then Michelin tyres cannot be found illegal if they measure the correct size before the race. I think Michelin also has FIA certification that they are legal. I assume the 270mm is exceeded during use by the tyre wearing down its surface and the sidewall being curved inwards to the tread area.
If Bridgestone are really only using 220mm then Ferrari should kick Bridgestone for under-use of tread availability.
If Bridgestone are really only using 220mm then Ferrari should kick Bridgestone for under-use of tread availability.
Ross Brawn allegedly said:How very magnanmous of him. I don't suppose it's anything to do with the fact that Michelin don't have the time to develop a completely new tyre at such short notice, or that the tyres may not show as much wear after the next race.
"We could have pretended to have seen nothing, to not let the FIA know and then lodge a complaint at the following race, but that didn't seem like the right thing to do."
itvf1 said:Er... no-one has to make a protest. This is more of Ferrari trying to bully everyone else into giving them the title. You'd have thought that these guys would have more confidence in their ability to win by fair means.
He also said he hoped that Michelin would change their tyres for the next race so Ferrari would not have to make a protest after the Italian GP.
I think Michelin have developed a tyre which starts the races properly but is very soft, hence the cars can qualify well and run the first few laps. Then the performance goes off a bit then comes back. This is probably when the softer part has worn down and the next layer needs to be "worked" to get it to grip.
Then it wears down to an almost "slick tyre" towards the end of the race.
I think the Bridgestone runners have a very good case as the rules say the grooves must not exceed a certain width or it will give an unfair advantage.
Michelin have already got a new tyre design for the Italian GP, they've probably been keeping it in the wings expecting some sort of complaint during the season to enable then to bring it out without losing out too much.
Then it wears down to an almost "slick tyre" towards the end of the race.
I think the Bridgestone runners have a very good case as the rules say the grooves must not exceed a certain width or it will give an unfair advantage.
Michelin have already got a new tyre design for the Italian GP, they've probably been keeping it in the wings expecting some sort of complaint during the season to enable then to bring it out without losing out too much.
Michelin has built a tyre that complies with the letter of the rules. That is all that is required. The fact the Ferrari wants the rules changing because neither it or its tyre company is on the ball is just disgusting - again. Ferrari makes a habit of doing this and it's pathetic:
Berillium (sp?) - Ferrari had it banned because Mercedes made it work (for friction reduction in the bores) where it couldn't.
The McLaren 'fiddle brake' of '98 - Though the FIA declared it legal, Ferrari still lobbied in a very underhand manner until it was banned.
There are other McLaren things, that escape my memory at the moment, that Ferrari protested the FIA about. Of course, as has been mentioned, the 'barge board-gate' issue a few years ago was a classic example of the dancing donkey getting away with stuff - the 10% tolerance quoted related to the floor, not the barge boards.
Ferrari has been quiet for the last few years, because it has been winning with ease. Now the pressure's on, the dirty tricks have returned. Watch out for more classic Schumacher driving, too - like when he put Alonso on the grass on Hanger straight at 190mph on the first lap of the British GP.
Murray Walker always used to say that 'everyone loves to see Ferrari winning'. Well I don't: I like to see it well beaten.
Berillium (sp?) - Ferrari had it banned because Mercedes made it work (for friction reduction in the bores) where it couldn't.
The McLaren 'fiddle brake' of '98 - Though the FIA declared it legal, Ferrari still lobbied in a very underhand manner until it was banned.
There are other McLaren things, that escape my memory at the moment, that Ferrari protested the FIA about. Of course, as has been mentioned, the 'barge board-gate' issue a few years ago was a classic example of the dancing donkey getting away with stuff - the 10% tolerance quoted related to the floor, not the barge boards.
Ferrari has been quiet for the last few years, because it has been winning with ease. Now the pressure's on, the dirty tricks have returned. Watch out for more classic Schumacher driving, too - like when he put Alonso on the grass on Hanger straight at 190mph on the first lap of the British GP.
Murray Walker always used to say that 'everyone loves to see Ferrari winning'. Well I don't: I like to see it well beaten.
A promising racing season destroyed by a governing body that doesn't know its backside from its elbow. The central issue is not that Ferrari have complained (heck I'd try if I was their position) but that the tyres being used by the Michelin teams must have been approved by the FIA at some point .... rightly or wrongly. Are they now saying that they got it wrong and are going to mess up a season 3 races from the end and penalise the Michelin teams for the FIA's incompetence. Can the FIA not wait until the end of the season to adjust / clarify or tighten its procedures so that the next season starts with the same basis on this issue rather than make changes now? Thank God the FIA aren't being asked to organise a piss-up in a brewery ... it'd end up being a waste of good beer, pies and drinking time!! 
Time to switch to Touring car racing .... again
Time to switch to Touring car racing .... again kevinday said:
If Gary is correct in what he says, then Michelin tyres cannot be found illegal if they measure the correct size before the race. I think Michelin also has FIA certification that they are legal. I assume the 270mm is exceeded during use by the tyre wearing down its surface and the sidewall being curved inwards to the tread area.
If Bridgestone are really only using 220mm then Ferrari should kick Bridgestone for under-use of tread availability.
According to motoring news they want them to be within spec AFTER the race.............
Pathetic really. F1 goes down the tubes again. MoJo.
autosport said:
The Formula 1 tyre controversy may yet take an even more serious turn after Ferrari revealed to AUTOSPORT magazine that it is considering taking further retrospective action against Michelin teams.
The sport's governing body, the FIA, has changed the way that it measues tyre tread from the next round of the championship in Italy, but Ferrari technical director Ross Brawn has admitted that the team may appeal the results of previous races.
Brawn told AUTOSPORT: "We're not sure that the matter is closed. Measurements were taken after the Hungarian race that clearly showed that there were tyres above the legal limit and we've got to see what happens because we're not happy with that situation."
Brawn pointed out that the FIA can investigate past problems if new information comes to light. That may make it possible for Ferrari to protest all 2003 results to date. Brawn says that Ferrari is looking at photographic records to try to establish for how long Michelin tyres have been being used in the disputed manner.
"We just want a fair playing field," added Brawn, " and it was clearly not a fair playing field."
Now it's getting really silly, Ferrari losing all credibility and looking like poor losers.
It's all becoming a farce, maybe they should put it on in the West End
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