Which Upgrade?

[NobleGuy]

Hi,
I'm looking for some upgrade advice.
I'm off to JNM on Saturday to get a general engine health check and rolling road session.

I posted about a week or two ago about a smoky problem, the outcome of which indicated that my turbos might be
on their merry way to the dustbin so I thought maybe an upgrade while sorting this out might be in order.

JNM are a bit cagey about quoting prices, mainly due to the fact they obviously don't know the current condition of
the engine and turbos, etc so it's hard to make a wild guess up front. I'm torn between doing the Stage 3 upgrade (published
at around £2K), which doesn't include larger turbos, and the stage 4 which does. As I see it I'll probably need
to go through the pain of refurbishing the T25's anyway, so I was wondering if anyone could supply me with a rough price
they paid for a Stage 4 to give me a bit of an idea of price difference and what the best path to take might be.

If Stage 4 is a matter of hundreds more, when taking into account my probable need for turbo refurbishments, then that is the
way I'll go. If it's thousands more then Stage 3 is the more likely route for me to take. Stage 4 can bring me around 475-500bhp
after an uprated exhaust has been fitted, while Stage 3 brings around 380-400bhp.

I guess there's also the question about whether the manifolds and other associated items are OK, so these considerations might
eat away any budget I have spare anyway. I may get the exhaust done at the same time to save hassle and labour, we'll have to see.
Putting my pessimits hat on, if the engine is knackered I guess it's all academic anyway.....

P.S. The engine is rattling at the very top (best I can compare it to is the sound the alternator belt wheels make while rotating,
but definitely from the very top of the engine) and a couple of opinions on here centred around the tappets (not too bad a problem
as things go). If it is the tappets I'd assume they would be an easy fix as part of the upgrade as both Stage 3 and 4 include internal engine
modifications.

[elenitro]

I've read on here before that a Stage 4 was £4300.

[NobleGuy]

elenitro said:

I've read on here before that a Stage 4 was £4300.

Cor. Stage 3 plus turbo refurb is probably going to be around £3K.

[ThatPhilBrettGuy]

Is there a list anywhere of what they do for each stage?

[NobleGuy]

http://www.noblemotorsportltd.co.uk/m12-upgrades/m...

Their power claims on this page have been superseded by my conversation with them this week (e.g. 420bhp for Stage 4 on the page compared to 475-500).

[Adrian W]

NobleGuy said:

http://www.noblemotorsportltd.co.uk/m12-upgrades/m...

Their power claims on this page have been superseded by my conversation with them this week (e.g. 420bhp for Stage 4 on the page compared to 475-500).

Looks like larger turbo's and crank up the boost, on the 3R

[NobleGuy]

I guess it also ties in with their Stage 5 which includes an uprated (Rousch) exhaust.
I've got a feeling that the engine will probably be down on power anyway, so a Stage 3 will probably make the car feel significantly quicker anyway. Then next year maybe a 4 could be applied to get more gains.

Edited by NobleGuy on Wednesday 16th April 16:27

[ThatPhilBrettGuy]

Still very vague about what they actually do. I'd want to know exactly what 'internal modifications' they do. There's a whole host of bits that standard M400's at that power have ate....

As Adrian says does look like a crank the boost job.

[SFM]

Mine had the JNM stage4, the previous owner had this done. Standard exhaust, 418bhp on dyno. Bloody quick!!
Invoice I had in the folder was for £3800. God, I miss that car!

Edited by SFM on Wednesday 16th April 18:42

Edited by SFM on Wednesday 16th April 18:42

[NobleGuy]

SFM said:

Mine had the JNM stage4, the previous owner had this done. Standard exhaust, 418bhp on dyno. Bloody quick!!
Invoice I had in the folder was for £3800. God, I miss that car!

For £3,800 I might consider it. Then add an exhaust later.
Be interesting to know what warranty comes with the changes and what the reliability has been for those having already had it done.

[daddysumo]

NobleGuy said:

SFM said:

Mine had the JNM stage4, the previous owner had this done. Standard exhaust, 418bhp on dyno. Bloody quick!!
Invoice I had in the folder was for £3800. God, I miss that car!

For £3,800 I might consider it. Then add an exhaust later.
Be interesting to know what warranty comes with the changes and what the reliability has been for those having already had it done.

PM sent

Steve

[GTO400]

Talk to Noble Motorsport about the alterations, it's not a boost hike as suggested and dependant on which stage you go for the results are excellent.
I ran between stage 4 & 5 for 12'000 miles without any problems, when changing my gearbox l had the engine stripped and checked all was well so ended up having equivalent to stage 5 @ approx 0.95 bar boost.
Don't forget they built most of the engines in our Cars.
Kevin

Edited by GTO400 on Thursday 17th April 08:09

[NobleGuy]

GTO400 said:

Don't forget they built most of the engines in our Cars.

They did indeed .
Must admit those that have had the alterations done by JNM have, as far as I recall, always given very positive feedback.

[yak293]

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...




have a look at this work they did to mine 6 months ago.

All I can say is these guys are straight talking honest engineers and know all there is to know re these engines.

The before and after feel of this car without exageration is simply amazing!

The main issue you will have prior to obtaining a firm fixed price, will be ensuring your engine is currently healthy, that will cost you a couple of hundred pounds, and you may need to brace yourself for the initial results. good luck

give me a shout if you need any more info.

[NobleGuy]

yak293 said:

...and you may need to brace yourself for the initial results. good luck

Could you elaborate....?

[Adrian W]

GTO400 said:

Talk to Noble Motorsport about the alterations, it's not a boost hike as suggested and dependant on which stage you go for the results are excellent.
I ran between stage 4 & 5 for 12'000 miles without any problems, when changing my gearbox l had the engine stripped and checked all was well so ended up having equivalent to stage 5 @ approx 0.95 bar boost.
Don't forget they built most of the engines in our Cars.
Kevin

Edited by GTO400 on Thursday 17th April 08:09

Your right it's not just a boost hike, they change the cam timing as well!

[NobleGuy]

daddysumo said:

NobleGuy said:

SFM said:

Mine had the JNM stage4, the previous owner had this done. Standard exhaust, 418bhp on dyno. Bloody quick!!
Invoice I had in the folder was for £3800. God, I miss that car!

For £3,800 I might consider it. Then add an exhaust later.
Be interesting to know what warranty comes with the changes and what the reliability has been for those having already had it done.

PM sent

Steve

Hi Steve.
Don't suppose you could re-send that could you?
My email address was out of date - had to ditch it due to excessive extend your willy (like I need too ) spam. I've updated my profile with a live address.

[daddysumo]

NobleGuy said:

daddysumo said:

NobleGuy said:

SFM said:

Mine had the JNM stage4, the previous owner had this done. Standard exhaust, 418bhp on dyno. Bloody quick!!
Invoice I had in the folder was for £3800. God, I miss that car!

For £3,800 I might consider it. Then add an exhaust later.
Be interesting to know what warranty comes with the changes and what the reliability has been for those having already had it done.

PM sent

Steve

Hi Steve.
Don't suppose you could re-send that could you?
My email address was out of date - had to ditch it due to excessive extend your willy (like I need too ) spam. I've updated my profile with a live address.

Hope the extension helps Ya!

YHM BTW !

Steve

[Jenx]

NobleGuy said:

Which Upgrade?

Rossion Q1?