Advice on DSLR photography and motorsport.

[51mes]

A question for you,

I could do with some advice and woudl appreciate anything that you luminous sages of the photogrpahic world might impart...

About 18 months ago I bought a pentax K100d rather than a cannon 400D for a number of reasons:

1 - it was cheaper (and in my budget)
2 - it was a metal body
3 - it had image stabalisation onboard.

because of 3 my initial set of lenses were much cheaper 18-55 and 28-300 - plus I got a couple of nice primes f1.8 50mm / f 3.5 135mm off ebay for peanuts.

Problem is today there are no high speed (f 2.8 /f3.5) long zooms although some may be appearing (sigma and SMC pentax) - costing as much as I've spent so far on the whole kit and caboodle. I was having a hard time at the GT's gettign the mix between exposure time and apature at a useful focal length.. It's great on a nice day but hard work to get over 1/200 shutter time @ 300mm zoom without having huge exposure problems so something is needed.

These new lenses have USM support for the new pentax bodies - and the new bodies have uber megapixel ratings far beyond the 6MP in my K100D - but as MPixels aren;t everything I've never been bothered.

SO question - should I buy the new USM pentax/sigma lens and keep my K100 do an upgrade to a K20/K200 or ditch the pentax gear before I spend serious money on it and switch to cannon/nikon?

I like the K100 it's a solid body and works well in other situations

Then the 10M dollar question if I change to which one? budget up to 1500 as a very top whack for lenses (18-55 and 300mm zoom for motorsport) and new body if needed.

thoughts appreciated..

Thanks,

Simes.

[DanH]

Personally I'd switch brands before you invest that much. At least if you spend it on Nikon or Canon it is an investment... You'll always be frustrated by lens selection etc with other manufacturers. Also if you get a good 12 megapixel camera then cropping is a much cheaper option that buying an f2.8 400mm prime

[flat-planedCrank]

51mes said:

It's great on a nice day but hard work to get over 1/200 shutter time @ 300mm zoom without having huge exposure problems so something is needed.

Even at higher iso ?



Though if you were looking to invest a large amount of money I'd probably consider swapping brands as well...
..but either way long-fast lenses are going to be a considerable investment


Tbh there aren't that many 300mm f2.8 zooms that come to mind, Sigmas' 120-300mm f2.8 APO EX IF HSM DG (£1,649.99) is the only one i can think of.

For 300mm and f2.8 the lenses tend to be primes..
Eg for Canon EF mount:

They make 2 300mm primes -
Canon EF 300mm f4 - £878
Canon EF 300mm f2.8 - £2,848

From Sigma-
Sigma 300mm f2.8 APO EX - £1,199
Sigma 300mm f2.8 EX DG HSM - £1,498.99

There are some other manufacturers as well.



Some popular motorsports zooms...

From Canon:
The 70-200 L range is very popular. Available in f4 / f2.8, with and without stabilisation, from £459 to £1,247.

Canon EF 100-400mm f4.5-5.6 L IS - £999


(All prices from warehouseexpress)

Cheers.

Edited by flat-planedCrank on Wednesday 26th March 04:30

[Jenx]

Start by buying a monopod...

Martin.

[beano500]

51mes said:

...luminous sages...

I like that!

[51mes]

flat-planedCrank said:

51mes said:

It's great on a nice day but hard work to get over 1/200 shutter time @ 300mm zoom without having huge exposure problems so something is needed.

Even at higher iso ?

Yeah 1600/3200 well 3200 is starting to get noisy for other reasons..

Oulton was heavily overcast with intermittent spells of bright sunshine and high winds - so it was hard work.

flat-planedCrank said:

Though if you were looking to invest a large amount of money I'd probably consider swapping brands as well...
..but either way long-fast lenses are going to be a considerable investment


Tbh there aren't that many 300mm f2.8 zooms that come to mind, Sigmas' 120-300mm f2.8 APO EX IF HSM DG (£1,649.99) is the only one i can think of.

For 300mm and f2.8 the lenses tend to be primes..
Eg for Canon EF mount:

They make 2 300mm primes -
Canon EF 300mm f4 - £878
Canon EF 300mm f2.8 - £2,848

From Sigma-
Sigma 300mm f2.8 APO EX - £1,199
Sigma 300mm f2.8 EX DG HSM - £1,498.99

There are some other manufacturers as well.



Some popular motorsports zooms...

From Canon:
The 70-200 L range is very popular. Available in f4 / f2.8, with and without stabilisation, from £459 to £1,247.

Canon EF 100-400mm f4.5-5.6 L IS - £999


(All prices from warehouseexpress)

Cheers.

Edited by flat-planedCrank on Wednesday 26th March 04:30

Thanks - those prices are going to make me rethink - these lenses are just coming available:

Sigma 100-300mm f4 APO EX - Pentax for 750ish.

Sigma APO 70-200mm F2.8 II EX DG MACRO HSM for 550ish

that a new HSM pentax body K200/K20 should see me with everything I need or am likely to afford.

If I ebay my K100 and a couple of the lenses (kit and 300zoom) it might not be too bad.

Jenx said:

Start by buying a monopod...

Martin.

My tripod is a weak point I will admit - had thought about the monopod - especially as they reach higher than my current tripod.

If it works it's a cheap fix ;-)

thanks for all the replies,

Simes.,

Edited by 51mes on Wednesday 26th March 11:01

Edited by 51mes on Wednesday 26th March 14:55

[flat-planedCrank]

51mes said:

flat-planedCrank said:

51mes said:

It's great on a nice day but hard work to get over 1/200 shutter time @ 300mm zoom without having huge exposure problems so something is needed.

Even at higher iso ?

Yeah 1600/3200 well 3200 is starting to get noisy for other reasons..

Oulton was heavily overcast with intermittent spells of bright sunshine and high winds - so it was hard work.

I must admit to not running into that problem, but then i'm normally panning so my shutter is never really shorter than 1/250. I'm not using a super-fast zoom, its f5.6 at 300mm.

51mes said:

flat-planedCrank said:

Though if you were looking to invest a large amount of money I'd probably consider swapping brands as well...
..but either way long-fast lenses are going to be a considerable investment


Tbh there aren't that many 300mm f2.8 zooms that come to mind, Sigmas' 120-300mm f2.8 APO EX IF HSM DG (£1,649.99) is the only one i can think of.

For 300mm and f2.8 the lenses tend to be primes..
Eg for Canon EF mount:

They make 2 300mm primes -
Canon EF 300mm f4 - £878
Canon EF 300mm f2.8 - £2,848

From Sigma-
Sigma 300mm f2.8 APO EX - £1,199
Sigma 300mm f2.8 EX DG HSM - £1,498.99

There are some other manufacturers as well.



Some popular motorsports zooms...

From Canon:
The 70-200 L range is very popular. Available in f4 / f2.8, with and without stabilisation, from £459 to £1,247.

Canon EF 100-400mm f4.5-5.6 L IS - £999


(All prices from warehouseexpress)

Cheers.

Edited by flat-planedCrank on Wednesday 26th March 04:30

Thanks - those prices are going to make me rethink - these lenses are just coming available:

Sigma 100-300mm f4 APO EX - Pentax for 750ish.

Sigma APO 70-200mm F2.8 II EX DG MACRO HSM for 550ish

that a new HSM pentax body K200/K20 should see me with everything I need or am likely to afford.

If I ebay my K100 and a couple of the lenses (kit and 300zoom) it might not be too bad.

For canon EOS mount:
Sigma 100-300mm f4 EX IF DG - £738.99
Sigma 70-200mm f2.8 EX DG APO Macro - £599.99

So it looks like the same lenses are available for Canon


Hope this url works. Should link you to all Canon EOS mount lenses (Canon, Sigma, Tamron, Tonika, etc..) on warehouse express.


Cheers.

[adamjt7]

A few pics from oulton on monday using a pentax k100d and tamron 70-300 5.6 only a cheapo lens and camera but produces decent pictures for a cheap combination remember an exspensive lens and camera wont always give you good shots.

[51mes]

They're lovely shots ...

and when it all comes together the K100D is good - I just seem to be loosing shots I don't want to when the light is iffy...

A better tripod/monopod will help but I'm also tempted by the faster lens as my zoom is a 6.4 @ full extension..

I'm damn sure some of it is my technique - so It's off to more motorsport events for me to practice practice practice ;-) the better monopod will be portable if I do decide to change camera...

what a pain, team PH is at cadwell isn't it..

Simes.

[flat-planedCrank]

51mes said:

I'm damn sure some of it is my technique - so It's off to more motorsport events for me to practice practice practice ;-) the better monopod will be portable if I do decide to change camera...

Out of interest, what sort of shutter speeds were you trying to achieve ?

[51mes]

trying to get over 1/200 - otherwise the cars don't come out clearly..

[adamjt7]

You want to pratice your panning technique the below image was shot at 100mm f11 1/125 shutter so its possible to get a sharp image with a lower shutter speed you just have to pratice.

Edited by adamjt7 on Wednesday 26th March 21:46

[flat-planedCrank]

I use the same techniques, i generally start at 1/160 - 1/200th see how much blur i'm getting with the pan. I don't regularly shoot above 1/200th.


These are less than 1/200th:

[Felters]

I looked at the Pentax last year when contemplating my first SLR - cracking value. The main reason I went Nikon (D80) was that the frame per second rate on the K100 wasn't that great - plus some of the Nikon lenses appeared to have very fast focusing. I hasten to add that someone I know vaguely is a sports photographer and it was his assessment of the Pentax that put me off rather than any great insight on my part. He's actually a Canon user along with the rest of his agency but stressed that speed was of the essence - if motorsport really is your thing then I'd have another think about the spec of the body as well as the lenses.

And if you think motorsport is tricky - try to get shots of our dogs! This was one of a series of about a dozen I rattled off shortly after buying the camera...



and on track

[DanH]

Whats a reasonable expectation for sharpness when taking panning shots? I ask as a lot of the shots posted as examples above seem a bit soft to me even at the very low crop PH allows. Maybe its just resizing/jpeg softness?

[Piers_K]

Surely thats relative..
Someone who has just started will be happy with results that a seasoned photog would bin.. while at the same time the seasoned photog maybe be happy with a softer pic taken at say 1/30.. but he would have binned the same picture.. with the same softness.. taken at 1/160..

[DanH]

Piers_K said:

Surely thats relative..
Someone who has just started will be happy with results that a seasoned photog would bin.. while at the same time the seasoned photog maybe be happy with a softer pic taken at say 1/30.. but he would have binned the same picture.. with the same softness.. taken at 1/160..

I wasn't passing judgement on the shots - I honestly don't know what a reasonable expectation is. Also wondering how much a monopod would improve things as per Martin's suggestions.

[Piers_K]

No I didnt take it that you were Dan..
Certainly thats the way its gone for me. Im a lot more critical of my own shots now than I was a few years ago.. and no doubt as I gain more experience Ill get even more critical..

Re a monopod.. the bigger the lens gets and slower the shutter speed.. the more difference it will make.. its simply a more stable base to work from...

[51mes]

I suppose I'm quite critical of my own efforts, they're at home on the machine there so I can't share at the moment.

Yeah the pentax was cracking VFM as a first DSLR and I probably am nowehere near some of it's capabilities.. I know what you mean about the ultimate frame rate it achieves in raw it's not too bad - and I will probably at some point want a new body - I think however I may hold off on a more significant purchase and see how a decent monopod improves things over my crappy tripod I've been trying...

Of course additional time gives me additional budget ;-)...

Thanks folks,

Hope to see you around at some events.

SImes

[DanH]

GF350 said:

These were at oulton with a 100-400 f4.5 - 5.6 so basically at f5.6





more here:

http://www.motorsport.com/photos/select.asp?S=BGTC...

Too high a shutter speed and they will just look stationary, even head on ones you don't usually need over 1/250th unless they are going very fast.

Saying that I'm trying to decide which big f2.8 lens to buy, but you can get by without it.

Gareth.

Ahah, the sharpness I was looking for. Very good giving the lens contraints. Can you run through your equip, what focal length those were at and whether you were on a monopod please?

Edited by DanH on Thursday 27th March 21:11