Ginetta G12 by DARE GT Cup class
Discussion
Racefan - you obviously need a history lesson (mind you, u wdn't be the first!). Just like the Dare G4 (DARE - not the current Ginetta company, there is NO comparison), a few (idiots, or uninitiated like on this thread) laughed when the Walkletts said they wd enter a G4 in Roadsports back in 1998. Chrise sake some said, it's a 1960's car with just a modern Zetec yet its up against a haggle of souped up Elises -the sports car of the century according to the motoring press - and 911s inc Carreras, Morgan Plus 8s, Elans etc - they must be out of their minds! So the Walkletts stuck a car together, initially with a 1.8 Zetec, tuned by them, and entered it at Brands with no more than a shake down. Remember the beloved Elise dominated these races up to then. With no more than a shake down, it was no surprise to us that Mark Walklett got a lowly grid place of 16th.
ARE YOU READING THIS STILL, RACEFAN? Started 16th. By the SECOND LAP the G4 was 4th! Shortly after it was in 2nd pos. Only an untimely driveshaft prob stopped the 4 winning. Boy, were the rest worried. What did the motorsport press say - BUGGER ALL!
Next race, the astute Walkletts with there years of experience but little of it in PR, I have to confess, fitted their own 2 litre Zetec and moved up to class C for the next races. Some of the Elises turned up looking mildly wilder, one with a special exhaust system that had it relegated to back of the grid. What happened. The G4 was entered for several races and humiliated the other entrants by winning some races by over 20 seconds. You did read that correctly TWENTY secs (in fact one race was won by over 22 secs! - EASY is the word that sprung to mind). Only those who went to these races seemed to know, because there little, if any, exposure was given in the press to these fantastic wins.
ARE YOU READING THIS STILL, RACEFAN? Started 16th. By the SECOND LAP the G4 was 4th! Shortly after it was in 2nd pos. Only an untimely driveshaft prob stopped the 4 winning. Boy, were the rest worried. What did the motorsport press say - BUGGER ALL!
Next race, the astute Walkletts with there years of experience but little of it in PR, I have to confess, fitted their own 2 litre Zetec and moved up to class C for the next races. Some of the Elises turned up looking mildly wilder, one with a special exhaust system that had it relegated to back of the grid. What happened. The G4 was entered for several races and humiliated the other entrants by winning some races by over 20 seconds. You did read that correctly TWENTY secs (in fact one race was won by over 22 secs! - EASY is the word that sprung to mind). Only those who went to these races seemed to know, because there little, if any, exposure was given in the press to these fantastic wins.
RACEFAN, a bit more for you.
Back to the G12. Downforce? It doesn't bloody need any - just like the G4 when it appeared in Roadsports there were Lotus people all over the car saying how the hell do they get the car so low - experience my friend, years and bloody years of it. They always talk about Lotus and light weight - take a look at the weight of a G4 or a G12. The G12 was Britain's first ever mid-engined GT (although the press decided to call it rear engined - rear engined, what a joke! - take a look at one). I remember Willie Green who got ALL his initial cred from driving a 997cc G12 - in his first season - if I recall he took more lap records than any other car or driver. Yet I read in one article years later in a motoring mag he allegedly called the 12 a lemon (why do the press have this thing against Ginetta and the Walkletts? Green owes his beginning to the G12, yet never mentions the car). In one race a G12 with a 1594cc twin cam came 2nd overall, 0.8secs behind a 4727cc McLaren Elva-Ford!
Undeveloped? The Walkletts have been building the G12s for years. The G4 is now 43 years old. The G12 will be 40 in another 3. Experience is the key here. And all you read about is Porsche 911 being 40. Pah. As already seen, 911s in Roadsports were totally demolished by the tiny G4.
If history had been a little kinder perhaps the Walkletts would have been on a higher pedestal. 3 G12s were lined up, with drivers, for Le Mans in 1968 with the first ever tobacco sponsorship - yes, it would have been Ginetta and they were within a whisker of signing the deal, not Lotus, that is until a Sales Link (the PR side of John Players) employee - who was a girlfriend of a Lotus mechanic, grassed on Ginetta and tipped off Lotus about Players sponsoring a motor racing team - the rest is of course history.
Not only would it be entertaining, but valid to have a G12 in the current GT races because, unlike some of the entries, it is really is a, if not, THE 'true' GT.
Back to the G12. Downforce? It doesn't bloody need any - just like the G4 when it appeared in Roadsports there were Lotus people all over the car saying how the hell do they get the car so low - experience my friend, years and bloody years of it. They always talk about Lotus and light weight - take a look at the weight of a G4 or a G12. The G12 was Britain's first ever mid-engined GT (although the press decided to call it rear engined - rear engined, what a joke! - take a look at one). I remember Willie Green who got ALL his initial cred from driving a 997cc G12 - in his first season - if I recall he took more lap records than any other car or driver. Yet I read in one article years later in a motoring mag he allegedly called the 12 a lemon (why do the press have this thing against Ginetta and the Walkletts? Green owes his beginning to the G12, yet never mentions the car). In one race a G12 with a 1594cc twin cam came 2nd overall, 0.8secs behind a 4727cc McLaren Elva-Ford!
Undeveloped? The Walkletts have been building the G12s for years. The G4 is now 43 years old. The G12 will be 40 in another 3. Experience is the key here. And all you read about is Porsche 911 being 40. Pah. As already seen, 911s in Roadsports were totally demolished by the tiny G4.
If history had been a little kinder perhaps the Walkletts would have been on a higher pedestal. 3 G12s were lined up, with drivers, for Le Mans in 1968 with the first ever tobacco sponsorship - yes, it would have been Ginetta and they were within a whisker of signing the deal, not Lotus, that is until a Sales Link (the PR side of John Players) employee - who was a girlfriend of a Lotus mechanic, grassed on Ginetta and tipped off Lotus about Players sponsoring a motor racing team - the rest is of course history.
Not only would it be entertaining, but valid to have a G12 in the current GT races because, unlike some of the entries, it is really is a, if not, THE 'true' GT.
Dandarez - Click on my profile and e-mail me, I think you'll be mildly surprised about how much I know about Ginetta and DARE.
And by the way, your second post, about downforce, I never mentioned downforce, that was another poster.
E-mail me.
>> Edited by Racefan_uk on Friday 8th August 11:38
And by the way, your second post, about downforce, I never mentioned downforce, that was another poster.
E-mail me.
>> Edited by Racefan_uk on Friday 8th August 11:38
eh, a guess-who? game!
First, my apology for the 'downforce' retort.
However, you did suggest JC took a lie down. And you state I would be mildly surprised (only mildly?) how much you know about Ginetta (Walklett or post Walklett or both?) and Dare, so why say the G12 is untried and underdeveloped? That is/always was, a Walklett trait/advantage which continues to be so refreshing that they can literally put it together and shove something out and if not win, at least shock! It's a sad pity Trevers is no longer alive - he is sorely missed and his knowledge was incredible - he didn't need computers to get power out of an engine, just his paper notes (sad, but can you recall an obituary in the mainstream motoring press to him, and to someone who served so long? No, I can't either - stinks! )
I will not try to guess who you are (chrise, it's not you, S.... is it ?- No, can't be, surely!) Please post on here that the G12 if (big IF) it gets successfully entered that you think it will be a failure and will not win its class. I don't reckon it would win it's class I am confident it would shatter it - possibly even rattle a few of the front runners. Why? Not just the car, but Mark is a VERY under-rated driver. Then one of us will have to eat humble pie.
First, my apology for the 'downforce' retort.
However, you did suggest JC took a lie down. And you state I would be mildly surprised (only mildly?) how much you know about Ginetta (Walklett or post Walklett or both?) and Dare, so why say the G12 is untried and underdeveloped? That is/always was, a Walklett trait/advantage which continues to be so refreshing that they can literally put it together and shove something out and if not win, at least shock! It's a sad pity Trevers is no longer alive - he is sorely missed and his knowledge was incredible - he didn't need computers to get power out of an engine, just his paper notes (sad, but can you recall an obituary in the mainstream motoring press to him, and to someone who served so long? No, I can't either - stinks! )
I will not try to guess who you are (chrise, it's not you, S.... is it ?- No, can't be, surely!) Please post on here that the G12 if (big IF) it gets successfully entered that you think it will be a failure and will not win its class. I don't reckon it would win it's class I am confident it would shatter it - possibly even rattle a few of the front runners. Why? Not just the car, but Mark is a VERY under-rated driver. Then one of us will have to eat humble pie.
cybersdorf said:
The DARE website doesn't really contain much info, and to my knowledge there is no distributor for these cars in my neck of the woods, so can anyone of you tell me if the G12 is available for competition purposes either in kit form or as a rolling chassis?
Yes the G12 is available as a rolling chassis for competition. Email me for more details. I have spoken to Malc.
tuscan28@aol.com
Unless I was hallucinating at Spa and everybody was telling me lies,the Clio appeared to do rather well,coming fourth in class behind the Morgans and a Porsche!It also has two doors,if anyone hadn't noticed,so why would it be any less of a GT car than the Airfix kit?
I was thinking of entering my Plymouth Superbird,but Shane L convinced me a Transit van would be more my style.........
I was thinking of entering my Plymouth Superbird,but Shane L convinced me a Transit van would be more my style.........
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