Harness fitting?
Discussion
Hi guys, im looking into differnt ways of securing the shoulder straps and have come up with this:
I dont really fancy attaching to the rear parcel shelf as there aint much of it left an even with spread plates im not sure it would be strong enough in a big impact. Only problem is, id have to chop out the harness bar an raise it up a fair bit as teh seat brackets are well of ground level :-(
Ive had a brief look a tthe regs an the it looks like the max angle the strap can be to the horizontal is 45, hence having to raise the harness bar.
Once the bar is raised to the correct point, anyone see why this would be aloud?
cheers
I dont really fancy attaching to the rear parcel shelf as there aint much of it left an even with spread plates im not sure it would be strong enough in a big impact. Only problem is, id have to chop out the harness bar an raise it up a fair bit as teh seat brackets are well of ground level :-(
Ive had a brief look a tthe regs an the it looks like the max angle the strap can be to the horizontal is 45, hence having to raise the harness bar.
Once the bar is raised to the correct point, anyone see why this would be aloud?
cheers
you must have very short arms and legs if that seat is in the right place.....
i dont know what motorsport your doing, but you would probably be better off with the proper safty devices harness bar, which picks up on the legs that go to the rear arches and then triangles down to the floor.
a very well thought out bit of kit.
it bolts in so can be fitted once the difficult task of fitting the rear portion of the cage is in the car.
i dont know what motorsport your doing, but you would probably be better off with the proper safty devices harness bar, which picks up on the legs that go to the rear arches and then triangles down to the floor.
a very well thought out bit of kit.
it bolts in so can be fitted once the difficult task of fitting the rear portion of the cage is in the car.
just a quick reply on looking at that if you intend to do some motorsport your gonna need the blue book which will tell you how you can and cant fit belts. looking at that, the buckles are so close to the cage they could cause fraying of the belt with movement.i wouldnt use that.good luck
guru_1071 said:
you must have very short arms and legs if that seat is in the right place.....
i dont know what motorsport your doing, but you would probably be better off with the proper safty devices harness bar, which picks up on the legs that go to the rear arches and then triangles down to the floor.
a very well thought out bit of kit.
it bolts in so can be fitted once the difficult task of fitting the rear portion of the cage is in the car.
Seat is roughly in the right place yeah. Why would i have short arms an legs with it there? Im over 6 foot an there is plenty of room...i dont know what motorsport your doing, but you would probably be better off with the proper safty devices harness bar, which picks up on the legs that go to the rear arches and then triangles down to the floor.
a very well thought out bit of kit.
it bolts in so can be fitted once the difficult task of fitting the rear portion of the cage is in the car.
The SD harness bar is £160 for 2 bits of tube, id rather spend my money elsewhere.
Ive had a look at the blue book and there is no mention of the distance between seat and harness bar, all it requires is the angle to be less than 45 degrees.
As to the buckles being too close to the cage, i can slide them close to the seat but im not sure if they would fray if i left them there anyway. hmm
Edited by nky_84 on Monday 17th March 19:28
i think if you slide the buckles up to the seat then it looks like you would create a lot more movement in the belt and you need to keep it in one position to minimise any possible side to side action. very difficult with the cage being so close to the seat. at the end of the day you can build the car as strong as you like but your life rests in how good you mount the seat and harness. if your doing motorsport have a look at what other people have done show them a photo of how you plan to mount the harness remember it has to pass scrutaneering too. hope you solve that one.
nky
im 6 foot and my seat is mounted a good 6" further back than your mock up, past the main hoop of the cage. id have it further back if i could but the ears of the seat start to interfer with the hoop so i have to put up with it
the problem with your 'bar' is that its also going to force you to run the seat very upright (so moving your arms even nearer to the wheel)
my gut feeling is that the way you have the straps is too short, and im also 100% certain that if you presented a car for scruitineering that it would fail. i suppose this will depend on the disaplin that you intend to do.
the s/d bar may be 160 quid, but a) it may save your life, and b)scruts will recognise it as a 'known' item and assume that its ok. i would think that if you wished to make your own bar, it would be better welded across the wheel arch diaganols to give the belts a bit od strech
ive seen loads of mini race cars involved in some serious accidents over the years and have seen some terrible methods of mounting seats and harnesses and some bad injuries as a result.
i suspect that most racers dont give the cage and harness one moments thought when they are actually racing the car (i know i dont), its that 10 seconds of 'ohhhhh fuuuuuuu**********kkkkkkkk' that matters if its right or not.
just out of interest what make is your cage????
im 6 foot and my seat is mounted a good 6" further back than your mock up, past the main hoop of the cage. id have it further back if i could but the ears of the seat start to interfer with the hoop so i have to put up with it
the problem with your 'bar' is that its also going to force you to run the seat very upright (so moving your arms even nearer to the wheel)
my gut feeling is that the way you have the straps is too short, and im also 100% certain that if you presented a car for scruitineering that it would fail. i suppose this will depend on the disaplin that you intend to do.
the s/d bar may be 160 quid, but a) it may save your life, and b)scruts will recognise it as a 'known' item and assume that its ok. i would think that if you wished to make your own bar, it would be better welded across the wheel arch diaganols to give the belts a bit od strech
ive seen loads of mini race cars involved in some serious accidents over the years and have seen some terrible methods of mounting seats and harnesses and some bad injuries as a result.
i suspect that most racers dont give the cage and harness one moments thought when they are actually racing the car (i know i dont), its that 10 seconds of 'ohhhhh fuuuuuuu**********kkkkkkkk' that matters if its right or not.
just out of interest what make is your cage????
guru_1071 said:
nky
im 6 foot and my seat is mounted a good 6" further back than your mock up, past the main hoop of the cage. id have it further back if i could but the ears of the seat start to interfer with the hoop so i have to put up with it
the problem with your 'bar' is that its also going to force you to run the seat very upright (so moving your arms even nearer to the wheel)
my gut feeling is that the way you have the straps is too short, and im also 100% certain that if you presented a car for scruitineering that it would fail. i suppose this will depend on the disaplin that you intend to do.
the s/d bar may be 160 quid, but a) it may save your life, and b)scruts will recognise it as a 'known' item and assume that its ok. i would think that if you wished to make your own bar, it would be better welded across the wheel arch diaganols to give the belts a bit od strech
ive seen loads of mini race cars involved in some serious accidents over the years and have seen some terrible methods of mounting seats and harnesses and some bad injuries as a result.
i suspect that most racers dont give the cage and harness one moments thought when they are actually racing the car (i know i dont), its that 10 seconds of 'ohhhhh fuuuuuuu**********kkkkkkkk' that matters if its right or not.
just out of interest what make is your cage????
im 6 foot and my seat is mounted a good 6" further back than your mock up, past the main hoop of the cage. id have it further back if i could but the ears of the seat start to interfer with the hoop so i have to put up with it
the problem with your 'bar' is that its also going to force you to run the seat very upright (so moving your arms even nearer to the wheel)
my gut feeling is that the way you have the straps is too short, and im also 100% certain that if you presented a car for scruitineering that it would fail. i suppose this will depend on the disaplin that you intend to do.
the s/d bar may be 160 quid, but a) it may save your life, and b)scruts will recognise it as a 'known' item and assume that its ok. i would think that if you wished to make your own bar, it would be better welded across the wheel arch diaganols to give the belts a bit od strech
ive seen loads of mini race cars involved in some serious accidents over the years and have seen some terrible methods of mounting seats and harnesses and some bad injuries as a result.
i suspect that most racers dont give the cage and harness one moments thought when they are actually racing the car (i know i dont), its that 10 seconds of 'ohhhhh fuuuuuuu**********kkkkkkkk' that matters if its right or not.
just out of interest what make is your cage????
It looks closer in the pic that it actually is.
The seat was put in an set to my preference well before the cage was delivered, so the seat is not being "forced" into that position by the cage.
I know it looks a little odd, and ive not seen it before, but i dont know how you can say it would fail. Scruts go by the regs, and it doesnt state anywhere in the regs that what you see above is not aloud. Car will be used for sprinting in the road going class.
I dont see how the SD bar is any better than what i have, i fact im sure the above setup would be stronger, but if we're talking about a 3 inch seat belt wrapped round a CDS tube not being strong enough then the belt and seat setup are the least of your worries!
My initial thought was to just raise the bar (no pun intended!) but if the tube will pass between the rear arch tubes an not foul on the main diagonal then that might at least "look normal".
I'd have all the faith in the world that the above setup would withstand a big crash but i agree it does look odd/wrong!
Cage is a geronimo. http://www.geronimocages.co.uk/id16.html
I cant fault it in quality or fitment in the slightest :-) Which was a weight off my mind i tell you!
ah, a picture says a thousand words.
the main hoop is further back than a s/d cage! panic over!
however, with the seat and the bar in the position that its in your car it looks like the belts are going to have to go up at a fair angle to go through the seat holes.
you will find that in the event of an accident, as you go forwards, the belts will pull down through the seat and probably cause you some back problems.
i know the scruitineering is a lot easier in sprints and hillclimbs than the nat b stuff i do, but belts and how they interact with the seats is something that the scruitineers have definatly 'keened' up on, especially in the last year. we tend not to have many problems, but a good few of the astons and yanks i race against have failed scrut on belts, seats, cages, age and postition of the belts. not good when youve shelled out a good few hundred quid on race entry fees.
a while ago i emailed that geronimo guy as he was advertising a weld in 'miglia spec' cage on ebay (for a good price). i asked him if he could confirm that it would conform to the miglia rules and if he had the fia paperwork for the cages he sold.
i got a very vauge answer back................
the main hoop is further back than a s/d cage! panic over!
however, with the seat and the bar in the position that its in your car it looks like the belts are going to have to go up at a fair angle to go through the seat holes.
you will find that in the event of an accident, as you go forwards, the belts will pull down through the seat and probably cause you some back problems.
i know the scruitineering is a lot easier in sprints and hillclimbs than the nat b stuff i do, but belts and how they interact with the seats is something that the scruitineers have definatly 'keened' up on, especially in the last year. we tend not to have many problems, but a good few of the astons and yanks i race against have failed scrut on belts, seats, cages, age and postition of the belts. not good when youve shelled out a good few hundred quid on race entry fees.
a while ago i emailed that geronimo guy as he was advertising a weld in 'miglia spec' cage on ebay (for a good price). i asked him if he could confirm that it would conform to the miglia rules and if he had the fia paperwork for the cages he sold.
i got a very vauge answer back................
guru_1071 said:
however, with the seat and the bar in the position that its in your car it looks like the belts are going to have to go up at a fair angle to go through the seat holes.
you will find that in the event of an accident, as you go forwards, the belts will pull down through the seat and probably cause you some back problems.
You are correct, and at that angle it would not comply with the seat regs. I mentioned in the first post that this was wrong, an im having to chop out the bar and raise it.you will find that in the event of an accident, as you go forwards, the belts will pull down through the seat and probably cause you some back problems.
guru_1071 said:
a while ago i emailed that geronimo guy as he was advertising a weld in 'miglia spec' cage on ebay (for a good price). i asked him if he could confirm that it would conform to the miglia rules and if he had the fia paperwork for the cages he sold.
i got a very vauge answer back................
Taken from the site "High quality CDS race cages built to any regulations and supplied with full certification"i got a very vauge answer back................
i asked him if the cage he was advertising had the relevant fia compliance papers (which we need if we race in europe) he was very vauge in his answer, so tbh ive assumed ever since that the 'certification' he mentions is only relevant to the cds tubing. im happy to be proved wrong on this, but after speaking to another cage manufacturer about the costs of getting these compliance certificates, they would need to sell a lot of cages, and for more like s/d money to make it worthwhile.
a mate of mine who rallies a historic mini in europe made this (very expensive) mistake a couple of years ago (with a different cage supplier) who sold him a fancy cage with the promise that the certification would follow. they got the cage welded in and two weeks later he rang the supplier who admitted that they hadnt 'yet' got the paper work passed by the fia, but it was surely a matter of time. they had to cut the cage out and get a s/d one.......
even at uk meets ive had the scruiteers check and record the fia numbers on my sd cage.
this is by the by of course as sprints run different requirments to us.
a mate of mine who rallies a historic mini in europe made this (very expensive) mistake a couple of years ago (with a different cage supplier) who sold him a fancy cage with the promise that the certification would follow. they got the cage welded in and two weeks later he rang the supplier who admitted that they hadnt 'yet' got the paper work passed by the fia, but it was surely a matter of time. they had to cut the cage out and get a s/d one.......
even at uk meets ive had the scruiteers check and record the fia numbers on my sd cage.
this is by the by of course as sprints run different requirments to us.
Gassing Station | Classic Minis | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff