Head Gasket or Little Ends?
Discussion
I've got a 1995 1275 SPI and I've been told by my garage man that my head gasket could be going but when he drove it yesterday he wasn't sure if it could of been my little ends instead. He did a compression test and listened to the rattle and did some other tests but he still isn't sure.
Is there anything in-particular that could divide it apart from being one or another? e.g. certain noise, temperate, anything - I trust his word 100% but him not being 100% sure on what it is, worries me and he's not a cheap man to get to take my engine apart.
If anyone can help that would be much appreciated .
Thanks,
Scott.
Is there anything in-particular that could divide it apart from being one or another? e.g. certain noise, temperate, anything - I trust his word 100% but him not being 100% sure on what it is, worries me and he's not a cheap man to get to take my engine apart.
If anyone can help that would be much appreciated .
Thanks,
Scott.
I'm guessing they have already been done as he had the car for half a day but how would I do the leakage test myself?
Physical inspection is something I may have to do but I'm more worried about not being able to put it back together but if I find the problem is the head gasket I wouldn't really care, I'd just flat-bed it back to the garage.
Scott.
Physical inspection is something I may have to do but I'm more worried about not being able to put it back together but if I find the problem is the head gasket I wouldn't really care, I'd just flat-bed it back to the garage.
Scott.
Head gaskets are easy to change on those - the cost of the flatbed would probably outweigh the labour of having him spend an hour taking the head off and fitting a new gasket. But before doing that I'd want evidence rather more convincing than a "funny noise".
A leakdown test just involves blowing air in through the plug hole (via an air line, regulator, restrictor, adapter) and measure the leakage rate. Often you can hear where the leaks are coming from which will give a clue to the problem e.g. hissing into the exhaust indicates burnt exhaust valve. A block test is done just by sucking some gases from the cooling system header tank through a chemical mixture which changes colour if hydrocarbons are present.
Both of these require specialised test equipment but it's not particularly expensive and I'd expect any professional mechanic to have the equipment and run the tests as a matter of course. If your chap really hasn't done any tests at all other than listen to it, that doesn't sound very promising I'm afraid. I certainly wouldn't want him stripping things apart based simply on a funny noise.
A leakdown test just involves blowing air in through the plug hole (via an air line, regulator, restrictor, adapter) and measure the leakage rate. Often you can hear where the leaks are coming from which will give a clue to the problem e.g. hissing into the exhaust indicates burnt exhaust valve. A block test is done just by sucking some gases from the cooling system header tank through a chemical mixture which changes colour if hydrocarbons are present.
Both of these require specialised test equipment but it's not particularly expensive and I'd expect any professional mechanic to have the equipment and run the tests as a matter of course. If your chap really hasn't done any tests at all other than listen to it, that doesn't sound very promising I'm afraid. I certainly wouldn't want him stripping things apart based simply on a funny noise.
Like I said though, he did a load of tests and is a specialist in the field of mini, I've just been abit stupid on not asking him what he did but I might give him a ring and find out, the noise itself is a worry to me and considering I don't have another car, it's costing me money not being able to drive it.
I have also had loads of people tell me that it is extremely rare for small ends to go but either way it won't be a cheap fix.
I'll be having ago at it tomorrow I think, first thing when I get home from work.
Thanks very much,
Scott.
I have also had loads of people tell me that it is extremely rare for small ends to go but either way it won't be a cheap fix.
I'll be having ago at it tomorrow I think, first thing when I get home from work.
Thanks very much,
Scott.
Scotty,
If I were you I would do 3 simple tests before doing anything else.
1. Run the engine, after warming it to open the stat, at tickover with the radiator cap off and see if there are bubbles coming up inside the rad. If there are, that's a sure sign of HG failure. In fact, if you sniff at the water filler neck, you will probably smell the contamination in the water if the HG has gone. It's a very marked smell.
2. Run the engine at tickover and remove each plug lead one at a time. The revs drop should be the same on each and if the gasket has gone between two cylinders the removal of the plug leads to either of the affected cylinders won't make so much difference to the tickover revs.
3. Check for emulsified oil in the rocker cover. If there is a whitish/creamy slime in there, then that's a HG gone between the combustion chamber and an oil way.
Changing a HG on an SPI is really simple, as both 'guru' and 'Mr. Green' have said. All you need is a decent 1/2" drive socket set, a decent torque wrench, a set of feeler gauges, a basic tool kit and a new HG - make sure it's a BK450 black composite gasket, and a manifold gasket.
Drain the water out first and make sure you clean both the block and head faces before re-assembly. Don't get any muck down into the oil drain holes in the block. It's a good idea to change the oil after a HG change anyway and definately if any water has got into the oil (Valvoline Racing 20w50 - see other thread).
Could it be the manifold gasket I wonder? If that goes it can sound like a 'tick'.
Personally I would say it's 99% likely to be the HG and almost definately not the small ends.
The other alternative could be a cam follower.
I had a metallic noise which sounded like a small end and it turned out to be the engine front plate which had cracked where the alternator bolts on and was vibrating at certain revs. The alternator was still held in place. This can happen as a result of fatigue or incorrect adjustment alternator bracket alignment
I hope all this helps.
Peter
If I were you I would do 3 simple tests before doing anything else.
1. Run the engine, after warming it to open the stat, at tickover with the radiator cap off and see if there are bubbles coming up inside the rad. If there are, that's a sure sign of HG failure. In fact, if you sniff at the water filler neck, you will probably smell the contamination in the water if the HG has gone. It's a very marked smell.
2. Run the engine at tickover and remove each plug lead one at a time. The revs drop should be the same on each and if the gasket has gone between two cylinders the removal of the plug leads to either of the affected cylinders won't make so much difference to the tickover revs.
3. Check for emulsified oil in the rocker cover. If there is a whitish/creamy slime in there, then that's a HG gone between the combustion chamber and an oil way.
Changing a HG on an SPI is really simple, as both 'guru' and 'Mr. Green' have said. All you need is a decent 1/2" drive socket set, a decent torque wrench, a set of feeler gauges, a basic tool kit and a new HG - make sure it's a BK450 black composite gasket, and a manifold gasket.
Drain the water out first and make sure you clean both the block and head faces before re-assembly. Don't get any muck down into the oil drain holes in the block. It's a good idea to change the oil after a HG change anyway and definately if any water has got into the oil (Valvoline Racing 20w50 - see other thread).
Could it be the manifold gasket I wonder? If that goes it can sound like a 'tick'.
Personally I would say it's 99% likely to be the HG and almost definately not the small ends.
The other alternative could be a cam follower.
I had a metallic noise which sounded like a small end and it turned out to be the engine front plate which had cracked where the alternator bolts on and was vibrating at certain revs. The alternator was still held in place. This can happen as a result of fatigue or incorrect adjustment alternator bracket alignment
I hope all this helps.
Peter
I'm going to have ago on Saturday as I'm away Friday and work nights aswell so time is abit of a pain in the arse for me.
Thanks for all your help; I am going to have to try doing it myself as it'll save me quite abit of cash, so....
I'll keep you updated and thanks for the advice Pete.
Scott.
Thanks for all your help; I am going to have to try doing it myself as it'll save me quite abit of cash, so....
I'll keep you updated and thanks for the advice Pete.
Scott.
I'm going to have ago on Saturday as I'm away Friday and work nights aswell so time is abit of a pain in the arse for me.
Thanks for all your help; I am going to have to try doing it myself as it'll save me quite abit of cash, so....
I'll keep you updated and thanks for the advice Pete.
Scott.
Thanks for all your help; I am going to have to try doing it myself as it'll save me quite abit of cash, so....
I'll keep you updated and thanks for the advice Pete.
Scott.
If you do get stuck at any stage there is plenty of help and advice on here, so feel free to ask and don't be afraid of asking basic questions. We all had to start our Mini Adventures somewhere and once you get into doing the basic jobs, you can progress from there. I can remember (just) when the thought of a complete strip and rebuild of a modified Cooper 'S' engine would have filled me with dread. After 45 years of doing it it's so straightforward - well, usually it is.
You are better off buying a decent tool kit than paying labout charges to others.
Have a go yourself and take confidence from all our support on here. You can do it!
You are better off buying a decent tool kit than paying labout charges to others.
Have a go yourself and take confidence from all our support on here. You can do it!
Cooperman said:
If you do get stuck at any stage there is plenty of help and advice on here, so feel free to ask and don't be afraid of asking basic questions. We all had to start our Mini Adventures somewhere and once you get into doing the basic jobs, you can progress from there. I can remember (just) when the thought of a complete strip and rebuild of a modified Cooper 'S' engine would have filled me with dread. After 45 years of doing it it's so straightforward - well, usually it is.
You are better off buying a decent tool kit than paying labout charges to others.
Have a go yourself and take confidence from all our support on here. You can do it!
What he said, well not quite 45 years in my case but 36 is near enough. Still afraid of gearboxes mind you after opening up an MG Midget box that had become stuck in 1st. Never found those little springs ever again.....You are better off buying a decent tool kit than paying labout charges to others.
Have a go yourself and take confidence from all our support on here. You can do it!
Go for it 5cotty. if you check my threads you will see my first head gasket change, infact if you go back a few months on my threads you will see everything i have done to my mini and i have only very basic machanical knowledge and never worked on a mini engine befor untill decmber 07. I got most of my questions answered by the guys here on piston heads. Now ive got a lot of confidence in myself and ive decided to rebuild my engine myself to gain experience and save money. it took me about 4 to 5 hours to do my first HG change but i have a carb model so i presume you should have an easier ride than me. get a haynes manual and make sure you follow all the steps and take a mental note of where everything goes and you shoulD be ok. Most importantly when refitting the head there is a sequence to tightening the head nuts and they must be torque wrenched on in sequence then loosened slightly and then tweaked to 50lb again in sequence(check haynes manual for torque settings). If the correct sequence isnt followed you could kink the gasket between head and block which will almost definatly result in a blown head gasket again. This happened to me within 6 days of gasket change which is why my engine has now been removed, i thought f'ck it just build a new 1.
i got myself a vw polo for £120 to run about in, you should look for a cheap run around to get you out of the s
t. It pulls my heart out looking at my mini in a none drivable state but soon she will have a new lease of life and i cant wait. all the best and good luck mate...neale..
i got myself a vw polo for £120 to run about in, you should look for a cheap run around to get you out of the s
t. It pulls my heart out looking at my mini in a none drivable state but soon she will have a new lease of life and i cant wait. all the best and good luck mate...neale..Gassing Station | Classic Minis | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff