T350c to a Griff?

[swanny71]

I'm considering changing from a fairly new T350c to a late model Griff (with well sorted suspension), anyone done the same?

The T350 is great but I just dont seem to have "bonded" with it as much as I thought I would and every time I see/hear a Griff I want one bad.

Thanks

Edited by swanny71 on Monday 25th February 13:52

[TvrJohn]

Griff will be more RAW

[350Matt]

I went from a 4.2 cerby on Nitrons to a 4.3 griff so I'd imagine the expierence would be similar as the cerby feels like a 'modern' car relativley quiet, handled beautifully without any major vices. However the Griff is not as sorted and is consequentially more fun, its steering feel is excellent where the cerb's was a bit dead its also nowhere as stable as the cerb as the wheelbase is probably a bit too short. It also 'feels' fast, where the cerb did not until you were into 3 figures.

Get a passenger ride in one - (go along to your next TVRCC meet) and that should let you get more of a feel

Matt

[braders]

Went from Griff to T350t Love the Griff but beging to love the 350 has much now i have had the TVR Power silencers fitted

[Griftwood]

Hi Swanny,
I went from the Tuscan (to a wedge) to a griff, I thought the same about the griff "growl" when i had the Tuscan, but I still love the speed 6 when I hear it! The ride is a lot more comfortable in the griff too.
Woody

[swanny71]

Thanks for your thoughts. I've driven 3 good Griffs (although not pressing on) and found them slightly more civilised than the T350.
Can a Griff with well sorted suspension (Nitrons, new bushes etc) handle as well (on road, not flat out on a track) as a standard T350?

[rev-erend]

I think you will love the Griff - I've owner both and they are different.

The T350 is very planted and does not easily slide - it gives the feeling of grip, grip, grip - oh god I'm gonna die.. if I push any further but the Griff has aminal amounts on torque from tickover and you are on oposite lock leaving every junction - you have drive like a real hero and live to tell the tale every time

Top end is not as manic as the T350 but thats the trade off..

Did I mention the roof comes off

Servicing is a lot cheaper - not as many unexpected bills.

[Paxo1]

swanny71 said:

Thanks for your thoughts. I've driven 3 good Griffs (although not pressing on) and found them slightly more civilised than the T350.
Can a Griff with well sorted suspension (Nitrons, new bushes etc) handle as well (on road, not flat out on a track) as a standard T350?

Depends what you mean by handle. In the real world a griff will give a much 'nicer' softer more forgiving ride (if thats what your after) as against a T350's hard and harsh ride. A to B though on a backroad you just wont be able to stay with a T350 in good fettle.The car handles like its on rails in comparison to a Griff and ive never driven a Griff yet where i felt i was in control on the twisties !! Im afraid it just wouldnt be able to stay with a T350. At speed...has anyone driven a Griff 500 at highish speeds and felt stable ?? Mine used to wander all over the place and others ive driven just felt the same. Handling aside though the Griff is a cracking car and i will get another one of these days!

Edited by Paxo1 on Tuesday 26th February 14:30

Edited by Paxo1 on Tuesday 26th February 14:31

[jellison]

Any handling difference is just down to spring rates and quality dampers, trey sizes, width and diameters.

You can make a Griff / Chim go like a later T car - just take cash. But I prefer a bit of compliance, but that is just me.

[FlipFlopGriff]

Had a run out around the EVO triangle in the 4.3BV with fully set up geometry, corner weighting, new dampers and springs, and a Tamora and Cerb weren't getting away and I was even backing off and then catching them up although it was extremely spirited and I think we were all close to the limit.
It felt like I was going to die before hand around any bend even at a speed I would do in my diesel Skoda so a massive improvement as long as you're willing to spend some money. Funnily it felt OK in the wet but in the dry it was downright dangerous.
Driver is the other big factor.
FFG

[Gooner]

Agree with all of the above comments about Griff handling - like a different car if you get the basics sorted. Also don't forget tyres - new SP9000/Toyo's made a huge difference over tired old SO3s.

gooner

[Paxo1]

jellison said:

Any handling difference is just down to spring rates and quality dampers, trey sizes, width and diameters.

No it isnt !!! Balance of vehicle weight distribution ? Geometry and width of track ? Position of centre of gravity vertically and horizontally ? Unsprung weight ? These are all fundamental to handling....You cant control these by changing the springs and dampers.....you can marginally move the vertical height of the cog thats all. As an example a T350 will never handle as well as a Sag...no matter how much you spend on springs and dampers...the geometry is just different

[jellison]

Paxo1 said:

jellison said:

Any handling difference is just down to spring rates and quality dampers, trey sizes, width and diameters.

No it isnt !!! Balance of vehicle weight distribution ? Geometry and width of track ? Position of centre of gravity vertically and horizontally ? Unsprung weight ? These are all fundamental to handling....You cant control these by changing the springs and dampers.....you can marginally move the vertical height of the cog thats all. As an example a T350 will never handle as well as a Sag...no matter how much you spend on springs and dampers...the geometry is just different

A Sag has wider wishbones (hence a wider rear footpint on the road). That is why it is better than a std T car.

Oh yes the lump in a T car / SP6 car is MASSIVE and long and hangs out way past the front of where a V8's crank sits, if that gives a 50 / 50 weight split then a V8 will be likely even more rear biased.

You can make anything handle if you through enough cash at it and mod it.

[Paxo1]

jellison said:

Paxo1 said:

jellison said:

Any handling difference is just down to spring rates and quality dampers, trey sizes, width and diameters.

No it isnt !!! Balance of vehicle weight distribution ? Geometry and width of track ? Position of centre of gravity vertically and horizontally ? Unsprung weight ? These are all fundamental to handling....You cant control these by changing the springs and dampers.....you can marginally move the vertical height of the cog thats all. As an example a T350 will never handle as well as a Sag...no matter how much you spend on springs and dampers...the geometry is just different

A Sag has wider wishbones (hence a wider rear footpint on the road). That is why it is better than a std T car.

Oh yes the lump in a T car / SP6 car is MASSIVE and long and hangs out way past the front of where a V8's crank sits, if that gives a 50 / 50 weight split then a V8 will be likely even more rear biased.

You can make anything handle if you through enough cash at it and mod it.

errm like i said......it isnt just springs and dampers ! and where an engine 'hangs out' is irrelevant. its where its cog is !

[BJWoods]

well i guess that's 40 years of getting 911's to handle is wasted money, ie it hangs out the back..

griff is effectively front mid engined, it is so far back, centre of gravity is generally considered important in handlinfg terms.

of course a lot of 'handleing' is down to the skills of the driver, or not

B

Edited by BJWoods on Tuesday 26th February 16:23

[teamHOLDENracing]

Where the engine 'hangs out' does affect the centre of gravity though, doesn't it?

[Paxo1]

teamHOLDENracing said:

Where the engine 'hangs out' does affect the centre of gravity though, doesn't it?

This is changing from my original argument about needing to change more than springs and dampers to match another cars handling !!
The whole of the S6 unit sits behind the front wheels on a T350 so it certainly doesnt 'hang out' and certainly nothing like a 911 hangs out. My point was the whole mass of the engine acts through its cog. What im saying is just because the S6 motor is longer than the V8, it is sat well back (whole unit behind front wheels) it isnt detrimental to the position of the motors cog and its effect on the weight distribution.

PS i aint having a pop at Griffs they are my favourite TVR !!

Edited by Paxo1 on Tuesday 26th February 16:48

[red griff roger]

At the end of the day, the biggest differente in any car is the nut that holds the wheel. Try out a griff and see. See if you can get to a track and try cars with different bits on the suspension. Suspect they will all be different.

[tail slide]

jellison said:

Any handling difference is just down to spring rates and quality dampers, trey sizes, width and diameters.

You can make a Griff / Chim go like a later T car - just take cash. But I prefer a bit of compliance, but that is just me.

Personally I disagree on this one Jon!

On many occasions I found that even a standard T350 matches a well-modified Griff around a track, with similar drivers and power (and swapped drives with the Griff around Pembrey). There's more to it than the broadly similar chassis. But track performance is a minor consideration for most, I still love the Griff's styling, torque and growly symphony.

swanny71 said:

Thanks for your thoughts. I've driven 3 good Griffs (although not pressing on) and found them slightly more civilised than the T350.
Can a Griff with well sorted suspension (Nitrons, new bushes etc) handle as well (on road, not flat out on a track) as a standard T350?

I've owned both as standard and modified road cars, often on bumpy B-roads. The handling was certainly different, IMO the T350 would still feel more 'planted' but certainly benefits a lot more from the better dampers than the Griff did, if you want a smoother ride but still keep good control of suspension.

One of each would do me just fine.

Edited by tail slide on Tuesday 26th February 21:12

[5.0ltr]

Paxo1 said:

swanny71 said:

Thanks for your thoughts. I've driven 3 good Griffs (although not pressing on) and found them slightly more civilised than the T350.
Can a Griff with well sorted suspension (Nitrons, new bushes etc) handle as well (on road, not flat out on a track) as a standard T350?

• *The car handles like its on rails in comparison to a Griff and ive never driven a Griff yet where i felt i was in control on the twisties !! Im afraid it just wouldnt be able to stay with a T350. At speed...has anyone driven a Griff 500 at highish speeds and felt stable ??

Yep, most days all weathers, road conditions and bends, all sorts of speeds, Griff never got out of shape, never worried me once, superb handling car.