Trackday Brake Upgrade - Help

[noble_al]

After 2 weeks of madness, when I genuinely believed I could part with my 3R (what was I thinking?) I have now taken her off the market and booked our place on the Eurotunnel in June, heading to the Nurburgring for a weekend of high speed thrills (and hopefully no spills)

I was talking to Martin at the TVR centre and suggested I was suffering some brake fade after some fairly hard road use last weekend. He told me that some of you lot have had 'brake upgrades', pads and disks and that someone (Rob maybe?) had even had a system fitted that sends more cooling air to the front disks? I would love to hear your opinions on whether any of these upgrades are worthwhile of even essential, given that I will only be doing the Ring, possibly 1 other track day and maybe a weekend at the Isle of Mann this year?

Cheers, Al

[alex s]

noble_al said:

After 2 weeks of madness, when I genuinely believed I could part with my 3R (what was I thinking?) I have now taken her off the market and booked our place on the Eurotunnel in June, heading to the Nurburgring for a weekend of high speed thrills (and hopefully no spills)

I was talking to Martin at the TVR centre and suggested I was suffering some brake fade after some fairly hard road use last weekend. He told me that some of you lot have had 'brake upgrades', pads and disks and that someone (Rob maybe?) had even had a system fitted that sends more cooling air to the front disks? I would love to hear your opinions on whether any of these upgrades are worthwhile of even essential, given that I will only be doing the Ring, possibly 1 other track day and maybe a weekend at the Isle of Mann this year?

Cheers, Al

Ds2500 pads are the first step up, also worth checking that all the holes on your discs are not full of brake dust, this is a common thing, easy fix with a suitable size drill bit and half an hour, can make a big difference.

[GreenV8S]

It is easier and safer to clear the holes out with a wire, no need to use a drill.

[RobP]

noble_al said:

After 2 weeks of madness, when I genuinely believed I could part with my 3R (what was I thinking?) I have now taken her off the market and booked our place on the Eurotunnel in June, heading to the Nurburgring for a weekend of high speed thrills (and hopefully no spills)

I was talking to Martin at the TVR centre and suggested I was suffering some brake fade after some fairly hard road use last weekend. He told me that some of you lot have had 'brake upgrades', pads and disks and that someone (Rob maybe?) had even had a system fitted that sends more cooling air to the front disks? I would love to hear your opinions on whether any of these upgrades are worthwhile of even essential, given that I will only be doing the Ring, possibly 1 other track day and maybe a weekend at the Isle of Mann this year?

Cheers, Al

Noble_al glad to hear that sanity has been restored especially, as your car has a place in my heart (my first Noble)!
Given the amount of circuit driving you'll be doing I don't think it's necessary to go the whole disc replacement/cooling route. The standard calipers and discs are fine (so long as they are not warped or your hubs have excessive run out - you'd know if they did as your fillings would be shaken loose under heavy breaking).
So for the amount heavy breaking you'd be doing I would have thought that a good fast road/track pad would be all that you need. I don't know what you've got on at present but the DS2500s are the usual first pad upgrade. These are great for occasional track day use and are great on the road. Some of us track-day hounds use Pagid RS29s (usually with grooved front discs) which are phenomenal on track, but can tend to be a bit annoying when used gently on road (they glaze over and squeal like buggery- requiring a few spirited stops to keep them quiet again).
So cheapest and easiest route is just to upgrade pads; nothing stopping you going the full hog with disc upgrades and Pagids, but maybe a little more than is required and there is the noise downside.
HTH
Rob.

[peterguk V6 KWK]

I'm having a batch of CarboTech pads made. Probably Panther Plus and XP8 compounds..

[noble_al]

Thanks for the advice everyone. Sounds like a set of 'DS2500s' may well be the first port of call. I simply wish to ensure my trip to the 'Ring' isn't spoilt by early retirement due to dodgy brakes. I'm also planning on having all the clips and the remaining 2 braded hoses replaced at the same time - Plus the obligatory spanner check of course.

Incidentally, has anyone on here taken their Noble (or any other mode of transport) around the Nordschleife before? In fact do any of you lot care to join us? As things stand we're taking the Noble, a 911 Carrera S, an Aprilia RSV and a Kawasaki ZX10. Another mate who's a photographer for many publications, Evo magazine included, is bringing a camera rig to do the photos, so at the very least I should have some decent piccies to share with you all.

If anyone is interested, we're heading over to Calais on the Eurotunnel on the eve of Weds 11th June, overnighting there for a Stella or 2, then off to the Ring for Thurs, Fri, Sat and catching the return train on Sunday 15th late pm.

[m12_nathan]

The ring is very light on brakes, it'll be fine with decent pads and fluid (Castrol SRF).

[RobP]

noble_al said:

Thanks for the advice everyone. Sounds like a set of 'DS2500s' may well be the first port of call. I simply wish to ensure my trip to the 'Ring' isn't spoilt by early retirement due to dodgy brakes. I'm also planning on having all the clips and the remaining 2 braded hoses replaced at the same time - Plus the obligatory spanner check of course.

Incidentally, has anyone on here taken their Noble (or any other mode of transport) around the Nordschleife before? In fact do any of you lot care to join us? As things stand we're taking the Noble, a 911 Carrera S, an Aprilia RSV and a Kawasaki ZX10. Another mate who's a photographer for many publications, Evo magazine included, is bringing a camera rig to do the photos, so at the very least I should have some decent piccies to share with you all.

If anyone is interested, we're heading over to Calais on the Eurotunnel on the eve of Weds 11th June, overnighting there for a Stella or 2, then off to the Ring for Thurs, Fri, Sat and catching the return train on Sunday 15th late pm.

Yep - done the Nordschleife; brilliant but scary (mostly other drivers and mad motorcyclists). Don't expect usual GB track day manners! I take it you've checked times for public sessions (didn't think the calender of events was out yet)? Generally the Ring is only open to the public weekday evenings, a handful of weekends and the odd half day.
Useful info on here:
http://nurburgring.org.uk/

[noble_al]

Thanks for that Rob - we did have the foresight to check the times. We have also had to juggle the date to accomodate a whole load of other people (most with family commitments - foolish folk indeed ) who want to come along for a few beers and a spot of voyeurism. Bless 'em

[DanH]

I still think DS2500s are shocking. Go for the pagids imho and put up with the noise.

[F.C.]

DanH said:

I still think DS2500s are shocking. Go for the pagids imho and put up with the noise.

I had the AP grooved front disc upgrade and Padgids all round, really embarrasing in town with the squeal but st hot where it matters.
F.C.

Edited by F.C. on Friday 22 February 22:38

[noble_al]

Hmmm? Would the upgrade to Pagid pads also necessitate a disk upgrade, or would they still be a good option with the standard non-grooved disks?

[DanH]

noble_al said:

Hmmm? Would the upgrade to Pagid pads also necessitate a disk upgrade, or would they still be a good option with the standard non-grooved disks?

They will probably be a bit more abrasive than road pads, but on the plus side they won't overheat and imprint on your disks etc. I would say not to worry, but not convinced the OEM disks are very good. Of course if they wear out you could just pop in the uprated disks? FWIW I've got Alcon's on my heavier car and they last 20+ trackdays at the front which is immense imho.

[RobP]

noble_al said:

Hmmm? Would the upgrade to Pagid pads also necessitate a disk upgrade, or would they still be a good option with the standard non-grooved disks?

DS2500s are absolutely fine if you're driving on road rather than track most of the time. IF you fit the Pagids you'll have to put up with the squealing brakes all year round for the sake of a few hours on track (where the Pagids will be clearly superior to the DS2500s).
Trick is to match your upgrades with the type of driving you do, especially where there is a downside to the technically superior component.

[DanH]

RobP said:

noble_al said:

Hmmm? Would the upgrade to Pagid pads also necessitate a disk upgrade, or would they still be a good option with the standard non-grooved disks?

DS2500s are absolutely fine if you're driving on road rather than track most of the time. IF you fit the Pagids you'll have to put up with the squealing brakes all year round for the sake of a few hours on track (where the Pagids will be clearly superior to the DS2500s).
Trick is to match your upgrades with the type of driving you do, especially where there is a downside to the technically superior component.

They don't squeal if you use them hard often enough

[RobP]

DanH said:

RobP said:

noble_al said:

Hmmm? Would the upgrade to Pagid pads also necessitate a disk upgrade, or would they still be a good option with the standard non-grooved disks?

DS2500s are absolutely fine if you're driving on road rather than track most of the time. IF you fit the Pagids you'll have to put up with the squealing brakes all year round for the sake of a few hours on track (where the Pagids will be clearly superior to the DS2500s).
Trick is to match your upgrades with the type of driving you do, especially where there is a downside to the technically superior component.

They don't squeal if you use them hard often enough

Just had my collar felt for doing that! Fortunately, because I was accelerating v hard and braking v hard the BiBs couldn't get a reading on me, so it was just a case of rather than a !
Not sure how effective deglazing pads would be as a defence. I suspect not very..

[DanH]

RobP said:

DanH said:

RobP said:

noble_al said:

Hmmm? Would the upgrade to Pagid pads also necessitate a disk upgrade, or would they still be a good option with the standard non-grooved disks?

DS2500s are absolutely fine if you're driving on road rather than track most of the time. IF you fit the Pagids you'll have to put up with the squealing brakes all year round for the sake of a few hours on track (where the Pagids will be clearly superior to the DS2500s).
Trick is to match your upgrades with the type of driving you do, especially where there is a downside to the technically superior component.

They don't squeal if you use them hard often enough

Just had my collar felt for doing that! Fortunately, because I was accelerating v hard and braking v hard the BiBs couldn't get a reading on me, so it was just a case of rather than a !
Not sure how effective deglazing pads would be as a defence. I suspect not very..

If you hadn't messed around breaking they'd never have caught you!

[nigelw]

or buy a set of each and swap them . If you mark up where they came from they should go straight back when needed then you can have the best of both worlds (and an empty pocket !) .... suggest bleeding the brakes with good quality new fluid as well cos its often fluid boil , not always pad fade