verto clutch - which way round
Discussion
Is it just me, or am I being particularly stupid?
Every workshop or parts manual illustration I look at of the verto clutch assembly seems to show the driven/friction plate 'boss' facing away from the flywheel, but the accompanying text says that the boss should face the flywheel?
This includes the Rover mini manual (which every one else (Haynes, mini spares etc) seems to have pinched the images out of).
My guess is that the illustration is incorrect, and the text is correct.
I wouldn't normally lose much sleep over this, but I am having terrible clutch drag problems that don't seem to have been solved by the usual process of replacing lever arms etc.
Every workshop or parts manual illustration I look at of the verto clutch assembly seems to show the driven/friction plate 'boss' facing away from the flywheel, but the accompanying text says that the boss should face the flywheel?
This includes the Rover mini manual (which every one else (Haynes, mini spares etc) seems to have pinched the images out of).
My guess is that the illustration is incorrect, and the text is correct.
I wouldn't normally lose much sleep over this, but I am having terrible clutch drag problems that don't seem to have been solved by the usual process of replacing lever arms etc.
When it's in pieces it is clear which way on it goes. In fact it will only go on one way round, so don't lose sleep over this. The protruding boss on the driven plate always goes towards the flywheel and that goes for all Minis from '59 to '00. In fact, the driven plates for the pre-verto are identical to the ones for the Verto, IIRC.
When it's to pieces, don't forget to check the primary gear bushes for wear and also make sure the clutch release bearing, arm and linkage are in good shape. If not, that's the time to change them.
Another tip is to bore a couple of 7/8" diameter holes in the (almost)vertical web of the front sub-frame to get better access to the clutch cover lower bolts using a 3/8" sq. drive socket set with a 5" extension bar. The rearmost bolt is always diffiult and some people don't bother re-fitting it and say that it's not a problem. I always do re-fit it (a struggle sometimes!) as I'm over-cautious, maybe.
When it's to pieces, don't forget to check the primary gear bushes for wear and also make sure the clutch release bearing, arm and linkage are in good shape. If not, that's the time to change them.
Another tip is to bore a couple of 7/8" diameter holes in the (almost)vertical web of the front sub-frame to get better access to the clutch cover lower bolts using a 3/8" sq. drive socket set with a 5" extension bar. The rearmost bolt is always diffiult and some people don't bother re-fitting it and say that it's not a problem. I always do re-fit it (a struggle sometimes!) as I'm over-cautious, maybe.
Thanks cooperman,
I suspect that the primary gear bushes are probably the culprits.
The power unit is a weird hybrid I put together six years ago for a holiday in France:
An 1275gt engine on an A plus gearbox with the self adjusting metro cable verto clutch.
I replaced the lever arm DAM6192 (and this wasn't cheap - £85!),driven plate, release plunger, clevis pins, release bearing, cable and checked the end face clearance on the primary gear. The primary gear seemed to move okay on the crank shaft. Having put it all back together the observed the movement looked okay. I was devastated that there was zero disengagement between the engine and the gearbox when the pedal was pressed - making selection of any gear impossible. As I have already thrown a pile of cash at this unit, I guess another £100 might as well go on the old credit card for another A+ primary gear - do you think that the crank shaft might be damaged needing remedial attention - or that I can get away without removing the flywheel housing (just the cover)
I suspect that the primary gear bushes are probably the culprits.
The power unit is a weird hybrid I put together six years ago for a holiday in France:
An 1275gt engine on an A plus gearbox with the self adjusting metro cable verto clutch.
I replaced the lever arm DAM6192 (and this wasn't cheap - £85!),driven plate, release plunger, clevis pins, release bearing, cable and checked the end face clearance on the primary gear. The primary gear seemed to move okay on the crank shaft. Having put it all back together the observed the movement looked okay. I was devastated that there was zero disengagement between the engine and the gearbox when the pedal was pressed - making selection of any gear impossible. As I have already thrown a pile of cash at this unit, I guess another £100 might as well go on the old credit card for another A+ primary gear - do you think that the crank shaft might be damaged needing remedial attention - or that I can get away without removing the flywheel housing (just the cover)
You can change the primary gear without removing the flywheel cover, you just need to change the 'red' seal as well.
If you can get hold of one, a Mk 1 flywheel and clutch assemble is lighter and, IMHO, a better unit entirely. You would just need to go back to the original clutch master cylinder and get a Mk 1 clutch arm and slave cylinder.
The other thing you need to know is that the flywheel has different teeth on a Mk1 and mk2, so you would also need an inertia starter motor from an earlier car, plus a remote solenoid. It's especially a good mod if you lighten the standard Mk1 flywheel a bit more when doing this. The driven plate is the same and you can use a Cooper 'S' diaphragm.
Good luck with this.
Peter
If you can get hold of one, a Mk 1 flywheel and clutch assemble is lighter and, IMHO, a better unit entirely. You would just need to go back to the original clutch master cylinder and get a Mk 1 clutch arm and slave cylinder.
The other thing you need to know is that the flywheel has different teeth on a Mk1 and mk2, so you would also need an inertia starter motor from an earlier car, plus a remote solenoid. It's especially a good mod if you lighten the standard Mk1 flywheel a bit more when doing this. The driven plate is the same and you can use a Cooper 'S' diaphragm.
Good luck with this.
Peter
Edited by Cooperman on Monday 18th February 14:48
I have been thinking and I may be wrong in saying that Verto and non-Verto driven plates are interchangeable. In fact, I now think that a non-Verto plate will go in a Verto, but possibly not the other waqy around. I do know that in my 1990 Cooper 1275 rally car I used a Cooper 'S' non-Verto competition driven plate, but I think the boss is a few mm deeper on the Verto plate. Someone please confirm or otherwise!
Peter
Peter
The Minispares website says that the standard driven plates can be used in the verto unit, but you are right, there is no mention of fitting verto plates into standard units.
I had quite a shock when I saw the cost of a new 1275 A+ primary gear - £175 odd!
Fortunately Minispares have developed a fully floating front bush for the 1275 primary gears that requires no post fitting machining. I have ordered one of these (£16.75 + VAT) and will give it a try.
I had quite a shock when I saw the cost of a new 1275 A+ primary gear - £175 odd!
Fortunately Minispares have developed a fully floating front bush for the 1275 primary gears that requires no post fitting machining. I have ordered one of these (£16.75 + VAT) and will give it a try.
Cooperman said:
You can change the primary gear without removing the flywheel cover, you just need to change the 'red' seal as well.
If you can get hold of one, a Mk 1 flywheel and clutch assemble is lighter and, IMHO, a better unit entirely. You would just need to go back to the original clutch master cylinder and get a Mk 1 clutch arm and slave cylinder.
The other thing you need to know is that the flywheel has different teeth on a Mk1 and mk2, so you would also need an inertia starter motor from an earlier car, plus a remote solenoid. It's especially a good mod if you lighten the standard Mk1 flywheel a bit more when doing this. The driven plate is the same and you can use a Cooper 'S' diaphragm.
Good luck with this.
Peter
If you change the clutch seal borrow a primary gear puller, turns a 3 day job into a 3min one.If you can get hold of one, a Mk 1 flywheel and clutch assemble is lighter and, IMHO, a better unit entirely. You would just need to go back to the original clutch master cylinder and get a Mk 1 clutch arm and slave cylinder.
The other thing you need to know is that the flywheel has different teeth on a Mk1 and mk2, so you would also need an inertia starter motor from an earlier car, plus a remote solenoid. It's especially a good mod if you lighten the standard Mk1 flywheel a bit more when doing this. The driven plate is the same and you can use a Cooper 'S' diaphragm.
Good luck with this.
Peter
Edited by Cooperman on Monday 18th February 14:48
Also use the later type of seal, it seals much better and fits much better and use the fitting tool other wise you'll never get in it right and it'll piss oil everywhere and ruin your newly fitted clutch.
If you just 'dig' the 'red' seal out, remove the 'C' washer and the thrust pad, the primary gear should just slide off the end of the crank by hand.
Re-fit the primary gear first and, if you dont have the 'red' seal installation tool (highly recommended), you can tape up over the splines of the primary gear with masking tape, making sure you carry the tape over the lip onto the plain diameter of the primary gear, lubricate the tape with a bit of light oil and slip the seal on. Be careful if you don't have the final fitting tool, which is like a long 'top hat', as it is easy to mis-align the seal in the housing. I have used a piece of 2" dia pipe with a couple of pieces of wood under the end against the outer face of the seal to soften the hammer tap. That was years ago before I had the right tools.
Re-fit the primary gear first and, if you dont have the 'red' seal installation tool (highly recommended), you can tape up over the splines of the primary gear with masking tape, making sure you carry the tape over the lip onto the plain diameter of the primary gear, lubricate the tape with a bit of light oil and slip the seal on. Be careful if you don't have the final fitting tool, which is like a long 'top hat', as it is easy to mis-align the seal in the housing. I have used a piece of 2" dia pipe with a couple of pieces of wood under the end against the outer face of the seal to soften the hammer tap. That was years ago before I had the right tools.
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