Why oh why....V8
Discussion
Don't get me wrong, if I could have my dream garage the first 2 cars would be my Tuscan and a Dax Cobra replica with a thumping V8 in it, and the sound of a racing 8 is second to none. But why in Gods name do people feel the need to come on the forums spouting how great a V8 transplant into a Sagaris/Tuscan etc would be.
DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND, DON'T YOU GET IT the S6 to most is a fantastic engine full of character with a great voice. I am sick of reading my way through what could be an interesting thread- Speed 6 engine being a good example at the moment, only to read that you can drop an 8 in for a reliable 400 odd bhp for £3.50 and a pack of gob stoppers.
If you love your V's good on you because so do I but they have their place as does the S6, try and keep this in mind.
DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND, DON'T YOU GET IT the S6 to most is a fantastic engine full of character with a great voice. I am sick of reading my way through what could be an interesting thread- Speed 6 engine being a good example at the moment, only to read that you can drop an 8 in for a reliable 400 odd bhp for £3.50 and a pack of gob stoppers.
If you love your V's good on you because so do I but they have their place as does the S6, try and keep this in mind.
.When someone finally produces a new design head,or whatever it is the S6 really needs to get around the design flaw,i can see the S6 being loved so much by so many more
Have all 3 engines in the family and Yes the V8 and the AJP sound great but the SP6 is so smooth I love them all.
I wouldnt put a V8/AJP in Candy, but I would dump a AJP in Daisy and set about tuning the V8 to monster power (well Ian would, give him something to do when he is bored
)
Everyone will have their favourites...me..? I ain't fussy and like them all.
Claire
I wouldnt put a V8/AJP in Candy, but I would dump a AJP in Daisy and set about tuning the V8 to monster power (well Ian would, give him something to do when he is bored
)Everyone will have their favourites...me..? I ain't fussy and like them all.
Claire
s6boy said:
Don't get me wrong, if I could have my dream garage the first 2 cars would be my Tuscan and a Dax Cobra replica with a thumping V8 in it, and the sound of a racing 8 is second to none. But why in Gods name do people feel the need to come on the forums spouting how great a V8 transplant into a Sagaris/Tuscan etc would be.
DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND, DON'T YOU GET IT the S6 to most is a fantastic engine full of character with a great voice. I am sick of reading my way through what could be an interesting thread- Speed 6 engine being a good example at the moment, only to read that you can drop an 8 in for a reliable 400 odd bhp for £3.50 and a pack of gob stoppers.
If you love your V's good on you because so do I but they have their place as does the S6, try and keep this in mind.
The S6 is a fundamentally flawed design, It has very poor valve geometry, a heath robinson timing chain arrangement, It is Noisy, it is harsh and it was made out of shoddily procured products. The Oiling arrangement for the engine is also very poorly designed which is why you need a science degree to start and correctly warm one up. The problem is that oil drains away far too quickly from the head.DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND, DON'T YOU GET IT the S6 to most is a fantastic engine full of character with a great voice. I am sick of reading my way through what could be an interesting thread- Speed 6 engine being a good example at the moment, only to read that you can drop an 8 in for a reliable 400 odd bhp for £3.50 and a pack of gob stoppers.
If you love your V's good on you because so do I but they have their place as does the S6, try and keep this in mind.
It is the stag V8 of the millenium and lacks 2 cylinders.
The AJP on the other hand was and is a design classic.
I sympathise with owners who have speed 6 engined cars and a workable solution will in time be found. The fact that an engine has the burble of the classic British straight six however does not make it a good engine. The speed six is not a good engine. It is a very bad engine that sounds quite nice but sound alone does not a good engine make.
The problem with the engine is that there are not enough cars out there produced to warrant the expensive tooling needed to re-make blocks, heads and cranks for the amount of sales that would be achieved. The bottom line is that people will re-engine with a proven package that works and doesn't break down. This in the long term will keep cars on the road.
The best example of a straight 6 engine is made by Gardner in Manchester people dont get as exited about bus engines though.
N.
heightswitch said:
s6boy said:
Don't get me wrong, if I could have my dream garage the first 2 cars would be my Tuscan and a Dax Cobra replica with a thumping V8 in it, and the sound of a racing 8 is second to none. But why in Gods name do people feel the need to come on the forums spouting how great a V8 transplant into a Sagaris/Tuscan etc would be.
DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND, DON'T YOU GET IT the S6 to most is a fantastic engine full of character with a great voice. I am sick of reading my way through what could be an interesting thread- Speed 6 engine being a good example at the moment, only to read that you can drop an 8 in for a reliable 400 odd bhp for £3.50 and a pack of gob stoppers.
If you love your V's good on you because so do I but they have their place as does the S6, try and keep this in mind.
The S6 is a fundamentally flawed design, It has very poor valve geometry, a heath robinson timing chain arrangement, It is Noisy, it is harsh and it was made out of shoddily procured products. The Oiling arrangement for the engine is also very poorly designed which is why you need a science degree to start and correctly warm one up. The problem is that oil drains away far too quickly from the head.DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND, DON'T YOU GET IT the S6 to most is a fantastic engine full of character with a great voice. I am sick of reading my way through what could be an interesting thread- Speed 6 engine being a good example at the moment, only to read that you can drop an 8 in for a reliable 400 odd bhp for £3.50 and a pack of gob stoppers.
If you love your V's good on you because so do I but they have their place as does the S6, try and keep this in mind.
It is the stag V8 of the millenium and lacks 2 cylinders.
The AJP on the other hand was and is a design classic.
I sympathise with owners who have speed 6 engined cars and a workable solution will in time be found. The fact that an engine has the burble of the classic British straight six however does not make it a good engine. The speed six is not a good engine. It is a very bad engine that sounds quite nice but sound alone does not a good engine make.
The problem with the engine is that there are not enough cars out there produced to warrant the expensive tooling needed to re-make blocks, heads and cranks for the amount of sales that would be achieved. The bottom line is that people will re-engine with a proven package that works and doesn't break down. This in the long term will keep cars on the road.
The best example of a straight 6 engine is made by Gardner in Manchester people dont get as exited about bus engines though.
N.
If you had I dont think you'd be calling it a "very bad engine".
I have spent time behind an S6 and its special.
Im sure the SP6 engine thing has been covered more than any subject in history!! But for me it really is simple...
I own a Chim with the good ol RV8 and tho no rocket ship compared to Tuscans etc i've had 3 years motoring without any non-routine engine issues.. And its within budget. just!
I keep hankering for a Tuscan.. I think they are ace. They sound really angry and i know they have serious performance..
But.. i have to be honest. after reading all the info on the SP6 over the past 3 years the engine scares me.
I cant justify buying a car for £15-20k and keeping a spare £5-10k in the bank incase the engine goes pop..
Im not saying it definitely would but in the risks department its great enough to put me off..
Sadly i think there are alot of people in the same boat..
I own a Chim with the good ol RV8 and tho no rocket ship compared to Tuscans etc i've had 3 years motoring without any non-routine engine issues.. And its within budget. just!
I keep hankering for a Tuscan.. I think they are ace. They sound really angry and i know they have serious performance..
But.. i have to be honest. after reading all the info on the SP6 over the past 3 years the engine scares me.
I cant justify buying a car for £15-20k and keeping a spare £5-10k in the bank incase the engine goes pop..
Im not saying it definitely would but in the risks department its great enough to put me off..
Sadly i think there are alot of people in the same boat..
Hmmm, "special" yes thats the word I would use but for different reasons I suspect.
It takes a "special" engine to single handedly destroy a fantastic UK sports car manufacturer within a decade of it being released. To say nothing of the finances of thousands of folks who bought the otherwise stunning cars TVRs with this abomination fitted under the bonnet.
Sorry if this offends but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck and all that. There was a survey in this forum on experiences with these engines and was big enough to be credible, the reult was an avarage of something like 25,000 miles betwen rebuilds and even re-rebuilds. That does not scream "good engine" now does it.
It does seem to be a solveable problem though by one of two methods, either dump it and fit a V8 or pay out circa 10 or 15 grand for a re-engineered version. I GENUINELY hope and pray for all those who take option 2 that it actually does solve the problems. Thats a lot of dosh to get from 20,000 miles life expectancy to 30,000. It would be a real shame to see the S6 cars disappearing over the next few years.
Jon
It takes a "special" engine to single handedly destroy a fantastic UK sports car manufacturer within a decade of it being released. To say nothing of the finances of thousands of folks who bought the otherwise stunning cars TVRs with this abomination fitted under the bonnet.
Sorry if this offends but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck and all that. There was a survey in this forum on experiences with these engines and was big enough to be credible, the reult was an avarage of something like 25,000 miles betwen rebuilds and even re-rebuilds. That does not scream "good engine" now does it.
It does seem to be a solveable problem though by one of two methods, either dump it and fit a V8 or pay out circa 10 or 15 grand for a re-engineered version. I GENUINELY hope and pray for all those who take option 2 that it actually does solve the problems. Thats a lot of dosh to get from 20,000 miles life expectancy to 30,000. It would be a real shame to see the S6 cars disappearing over the next few years.
Jon
fatjon said:
............or pay out circa 10 or 15 grand for a re-engineered version. I GENUINELY hope and pray for all those who take option 2 that it actually does solve the problems. Thats a lot of dosh to get from 20,000 miles life expectancy to 30,000. It would be a real shame to see the S6 cars disappearing over the next few years.
Jon
Is this 'Wilder' engine completely redisigned(new designs of castings etc),eradicating all of the design flaws completly?Or is this re-engineering to an extent of reducing wear to a minimum,within the levels permitted by the flawed design?Jon
Edited by The AJP Griff on Friday 18th January 12:02
I am in agreement with the above two comments. I would love to upgrade my car to a Tamora or even a Sagaris in the near future, but i dont have the faith in the engine. So i wont. I have considered so many alternative cars and this engine has made me angry. I want to have and love having a TVR. As a result i am continuously upgrading my Chimaera. I love the Chimaera to bits, but i would love a more modern car.
Jon.
Jon.
swanny71 said:
heightswitch said:
s6boy said:
Don't get me wrong, if I could have my dream garage the first 2 cars would be my Tuscan and a Dax Cobra replica with a thumping V8 in it, and the sound of a racing 8 is second to none. But why in Gods name do people feel the need to come on the forums spouting how great a V8 transplant into a Sagaris/Tuscan etc would be.
DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND, DON'T YOU GET IT the S6 to most is a fantastic engine full of character with a great voice. I am sick of reading my way through what could be an interesting thread- Speed 6 engine being a good example at the moment, only to read that you can drop an 8 in for a reliable 400 odd bhp for £3.50 and a pack of gob stoppers.
If you love your V's good on you because so do I but they have their place as does the S6, try and keep this in mind.
The S6 is a fundamentally flawed design, It has very poor valve geometry, a heath robinson timing chain arrangement, It is Noisy, it is harsh and it was made out of shoddily procured products. The Oiling arrangement for the engine is also very poorly designed which is why you need a science degree to start and correctly warm one up. The problem is that oil drains away far too quickly from the head.DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND, DON'T YOU GET IT the S6 to most is a fantastic engine full of character with a great voice. I am sick of reading my way through what could be an interesting thread- Speed 6 engine being a good example at the moment, only to read that you can drop an 8 in for a reliable 400 odd bhp for £3.50 and a pack of gob stoppers.
If you love your V's good on you because so do I but they have their place as does the S6, try and keep this in mind.
It is the stag V8 of the millenium and lacks 2 cylinders.
The AJP on the other hand was and is a design classic.
I sympathise with owners who have speed 6 engined cars and a workable solution will in time be found. The fact that an engine has the burble of the classic British straight six however does not make it a good engine. The speed six is not a good engine. It is a very bad engine that sounds quite nice but sound alone does not a good engine make.
The problem with the engine is that there are not enough cars out there produced to warrant the expensive tooling needed to re-make blocks, heads and cranks for the amount of sales that would be achieved. The bottom line is that people will re-engine with a proven package that works and doesn't break down. This in the long term will keep cars on the road.
The best example of a straight 6 engine is made by Gardner in Manchester people dont get as exited about bus engines though.
N.
If you had I dont think you'd be calling it a "very bad engine".
I have spent time behind an S6 and its special.
The statement made was that the "engine" was a good one.
It isn't a good engine. It is a very bad engine. It is poorly designed, poorly made and virtually every one made prior to 2004 has had to be completely rebuilt, some 2 or 3 times.
Dom has pretty much replaced the bad bits to give people some hope of getting 2 good years motoring but the fundamental issue of the engine remains the same. It has some fundamental engineering shortcomings.
From an engineering point of view the engine is a turd. if you polish a turd you end up with a shiny turd.
I love the cars, I love the T350 and one day when I have money to burn I will buy one.
I will however buy one knowing that the engine will not go down in History as a good design or good engine. This has nothing to do with the bits of steel and plastic it is bolted into which are all design classics.
N.
I have an RV8 in my TVR and I can say, after driving all the modern TVRs, that the Speed 6 is a fabulous engine. It is really thrilling to drive behind. It's like a turbine.
I like straight sixes and the Speed 6 is the best of the lot.
I like the RV8 but, I ask you, pushrods?
One thing about the Speed 6 TVRs is that they are mated to a lovely gearbox, the clutch is the best I've ever driven and I reckon the power steering - and I normally much prefer manual - is a dream.
If I could afford one I jump at it. The later chassis, as fitted to the Tam, T350 and Tuscan II and Convertible, makes anyone into a driving genius.
Much as I like my Chim it doesn't blind me to its shortcomings. And the RV8 was antiquated when my car was made, let alone 15 years later.
The big American V8s are, no doubt, superb at what they do but why go to all that expense when, for the same money or even less, you could upgrade your Sp 6? I'm with the OP.
I like straight sixes and the Speed 6 is the best of the lot.
I like the RV8 but, I ask you, pushrods?
One thing about the Speed 6 TVRs is that they are mated to a lovely gearbox, the clutch is the best I've ever driven and I reckon the power steering - and I normally much prefer manual - is a dream.
If I could afford one I jump at it. The later chassis, as fitted to the Tam, T350 and Tuscan II and Convertible, makes anyone into a driving genius.
Much as I like my Chim it doesn't blind me to its shortcomings. And the RV8 was antiquated when my car was made, let alone 15 years later.
The big American V8s are, no doubt, superb at what they do but why go to all that expense when, for the same money or even less, you could upgrade your Sp 6? I'm with the OP.
The AJP Griff said:
fatjon said:
............or pay out circa 10 or 15 grand for a re-engineered version. I GENUINELY hope and pray for all those who take option 2 that it actually does solve the problems. Thats a lot of dosh to get from 20,000 miles life expectancy to 30,000. It would be a real shame to see the S6 cars disappearing over the next few years.
Jon
Is this 'Wilder' engine completely redisigned(new designs of castings etc),eradicating all of the design flaws completly?Or is this re-engineering to an extent of reducing wear to a minimum,within the levels permitted by the flawed design?Jon
Edited by The AJP Griff on Friday 18th January 12:02
heightswitch said:
swanny71 said:
heightswitch said:
s6boy said:
Don't get me wrong, if I could have my dream garage the first 2 cars would be my Tuscan and a Dax Cobra replica with a thumping V8 in it, and the sound of a racing 8 is second to none. But why in Gods name do people feel the need to come on the forums spouting how great a V8 transplant into a Sagaris/Tuscan etc would be.
DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND, DON'T YOU GET IT the S6 to most is a fantastic engine full of character with a great voice. I am sick of reading my way through what could be an interesting thread- Speed 6 engine being a good example at the moment, only to read that you can drop an 8 in for a reliable 400 odd bhp for £3.50 and a pack of gob stoppers.
If you love your V's good on you because so do I but they have their place as does the S6, try and keep this in mind.
The S6 is a fundamentally flawed design, It has very poor valve geometry, a heath robinson timing chain arrangement, It is Noisy, it is harsh and it was made out of shoddily procured products. The Oiling arrangement for the engine is also very poorly designed which is why you need a science degree to start and correctly warm one up. The problem is that oil drains away far too quickly from the head.DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND, DON'T YOU GET IT the S6 to most is a fantastic engine full of character with a great voice. I am sick of reading my way through what could be an interesting thread- Speed 6 engine being a good example at the moment, only to read that you can drop an 8 in for a reliable 400 odd bhp for £3.50 and a pack of gob stoppers.
If you love your V's good on you because so do I but they have their place as does the S6, try and keep this in mind.
It is the stag V8 of the millenium and lacks 2 cylinders.
The AJP on the other hand was and is a design classic.
I sympathise with owners who have speed 6 engined cars and a workable solution will in time be found. The fact that an engine has the burble of the classic British straight six however does not make it a good engine. The speed six is not a good engine. It is a very bad engine that sounds quite nice but sound alone does not a good engine make.
The problem with the engine is that there are not enough cars out there produced to warrant the expensive tooling needed to re-make blocks, heads and cranks for the amount of sales that would be achieved. The bottom line is that people will re-engine with a proven package that works and doesn't break down. This in the long term will keep cars on the road.
The best example of a straight 6 engine is made by Gardner in Manchester people dont get as exited about bus engines though.
N.
If you had I dont think you'd be calling it a "very bad engine".
I have spent time behind an S6 and its special.
The statement made was that the "engine" was a good one.
It isn't a good engine. It is a very bad engine. It is poorly designed, poorly made and virtually every one made prior to 2004 has had to be completely rebuilt, some 2 or 3 times.
Dom has pretty much replaced the bad bits to give people some hope of getting 2 good years motoring but the fundamental issue of the engine remains the same. It has some fundamental engineering shortcomings.
From an engineering point of view the engine is a turd. if you polish a turd you end up with a shiny turd.
I love the cars, I love the T350 and one day when I have money to burn I will buy one.
I will however buy one knowing that the engine will not go down in History as a good design or good engine. This has nothing to do with the bits of steel and plastic it is bolted into which are all design classics.
N.
When looking to buy, I looked at the Chim or a Tamora.
The salesman from a reputable TVR dealer said, the Tamora is great, but be looking at shelling out quite a lot of money roughly every 6,000 miles.
I like the engines, but as this is my only car, the reliability just isn't there.
I hope these engines do get 'sorted', then maybe a viable option. At the moment though, the Chim stays mine..
The salesman from a reputable TVR dealer said, the Tamora is great, but be looking at shelling out quite a lot of money roughly every 6,000 miles.
I like the engines, but as this is my only car, the reliability just isn't there.
I hope these engines do get 'sorted', then maybe a viable option. At the moment though, the Chim stays mine..
Gassing Station | General TVR Stuff & Gossip | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff