Driving games.....
Discussion
Do you find they have helped you with your driving? I have found that playing GT2 form the age of 10 taught me about apexs, breaking points, all sorts of important things. I also find it far mroe difficult with my steering wheel + pedals and gearstick to play that game than actually drive a real car, which I find pretty straightforward. Anyone else found this?
Yeah, I think they do teach you the basics - braking, racing lines, skid control. I did a skid pan day which all seemed to come quite naturaly, the instructor commented that I must have been playing a lot of Colin McRae. I think I was enjoying holding the drift to much though, rather than bringing the car back under control 
Circuit driving I find harder in real life - there seems to be a lot to more to think about at first, especially in a faster car - I found myself arriving at corners without having time to work out the gear and the line I needed. The added fear of not being able to bounce of the sides unscathed if you get it wrong doesn't help.
On the other hand though it seems a lot easier in real life to get the proper racing line and also to gradually build up speed. Games tend to be a bit all or nothing, the cars are difficult to drive slowly.
Circuit driving I find harder in real life - there seems to be a lot to more to think about at first, especially in a faster car - I found myself arriving at corners without having time to work out the gear and the line I needed. The added fear of not being able to bounce of the sides unscathed if you get it wrong doesn't help.
On the other hand though it seems a lot easier in real life to get the proper racing line and also to gradually build up speed. Games tend to be a bit all or nothing, the cars are difficult to drive slowly.
mr_fibuli said:
Yeah, I think they do teach you the basics - braking, racing lines, skid control. I did a skid pan day which all seemed to come quite naturaly, the instructor commented that I must have been playing a lot of Colin McRae. I think I was enjoying holding the drift to much though, rather than bringing the car back under control
bo
ocks, I worked on colin mcrae a few years back and I can tell you it was not made with driver aid, just some tt in a red elan in the car park who thought he knew how to drive. (sorry gavin)I also worked on a flight sim that was taken up for flight training (won't say which new plane it was) and having had many hours on it some of the guys flying the new plane suggested I could take out an air force, I couldn't of course I had just learnt the game.
Sims are sims not real life. they give you a taste of what life might be like, I still drive like my gran despite 1000 hours driving a virtual rally car.
Sheets Tabuer said:
boocks, I worked on colin mcrae a few years back and I can tell you it was not made with driver aid, just some tt in a red elan in the car park who thought he knew how to drive. (sorry gavin)
I'm not saying driving games make you into a rally god, or that you would be able to do remotely well in a real rally after training on a Playstation. In fact these games are probably responsible for a lot of young drivers thinking they can pull of similar feats in real life and stuffing it into a tree. But games do teach the basic theory of drifting by balancing the throttle / opposite lock. The better ones also give you a feel for the effects of weight transfer, lift-off oversteer, and the differences between front and rear wheel drive.ocks, I worked on colin mcrae a few years back and I can tell you it was not made with driver aid, just some tt in a red elan in the car park who thought he knew how to drive. (sorry gavin)You're probably right, Colin McRae is a sh1tty example - that's just what the instructor said to me because that's the only game that non-gamers have heard of. There are much better driving games out there, where the handling model is taken very seriously (I should know, i've worked on them
)Sheets Tabuer said:
mr_fibuli said:
Yeah, I think they do teach you the basics - braking, racing lines, skid control. I did a skid pan day which all seemed to come quite naturaly, the instructor commented that I must have been playing a lot of Colin McRae. I think I was enjoying holding the drift to much though, rather than bringing the car back under control
boocks, I worked on colin mcrae a few years back and I can tell you it was not made with driver aid, just some tt in a red elan in the car park who thought he knew how to drive. (sorry gavin)I also worked on a flight sim that was taken up for flight training (won't say which new plane it was) and having had many hours on it some of the guys flying the new plane suggested I could take out an air force, I couldn't of course I had just learnt the game.
Sims are sims not real life. they give you a taste of what life might be like, I still drive like my gran despite 1000 hours driving a virtual rally car.
Good friend of mine races Formula Renault and has been racing the British tracks since he was a lad in karts. Says its harder for him to race on playstation as he thinks in real life but the tracks are different. Although he does recommend racing on ps2 before you visit a track just so the general layout is not completely new to you.
The problem I have with driving games is that either they end up with physics that are exactly 1:1 match with telemetry and all of that, or great driving feel at the expense of accuracy.
(There are various things from members of Papyrus floating around about how Grand Prix Legends, one of the best games ever for realistic feel, is actually full of compromises when it comes to simulation, such as totally linear tyre slip vs. force "curves" and no simulation of castor.)
One of the big things I often notice is body roll - either the car stays too flat (this is especially noticeable on games with older and/or more ordinary vehicles in the lineup) or it rolls going into a corner the way I'd expect, but as I straighten up it has this horrible under-damped jerkiness, even taking on a "wobble" all the way down the next straight if I take off the lock too quickly.
It will be very interesting with GT5 including the Top Gear track, if they use the same replay cameras as the TV show, it will be easy to run direct comparisons, down to "spot the difference" pictures.
The predecessor GT4 actually is a great example of this thing I'm trying to get at with in-game suspension settings; take the 2CV and hurl it into a corner at high speed - did it lean over like a 2CV? Funnily enough they got the cornering feel "right" with the Volvo 240, but braking would smash the nose hard on the ground - this might have been an artifact of overly strong brakes, though.
(There are various things from members of Papyrus floating around about how Grand Prix Legends, one of the best games ever for realistic feel, is actually full of compromises when it comes to simulation, such as totally linear tyre slip vs. force "curves" and no simulation of castor.)
One of the big things I often notice is body roll - either the car stays too flat (this is especially noticeable on games with older and/or more ordinary vehicles in the lineup) or it rolls going into a corner the way I'd expect, but as I straighten up it has this horrible under-damped jerkiness, even taking on a "wobble" all the way down the next straight if I take off the lock too quickly.
It will be very interesting with GT5 including the Top Gear track, if they use the same replay cameras as the TV show, it will be easy to run direct comparisons, down to "spot the difference" pictures.
The predecessor GT4 actually is a great example of this thing I'm trying to get at with in-game suspension settings; take the 2CV and hurl it into a corner at high speed - did it lean over like a 2CV? Funnily enough they got the cornering feel "right" with the Volvo 240, but braking would smash the nose hard on the ground - this might have been an artifact of overly strong brakes, though.
ha ha ha ha ha
yes, of course they do, I have also played rainbow 6 so could kick the arse of any SAS members, as well as taking my R-Type training to save the universe.
Really what planet are you on?? its a game FFS, apart from a very basic track layout it will teach you bugger all.
ETA I really worry that some people say it has taught them how to drive
yes, of course they do, I have also played rainbow 6 so could kick the arse of any SAS members, as well as taking my R-Type training to save the universe.
Really what planet are you on?? its a game FFS, apart from a very basic track layout it will teach you bugger all.
ETA I really worry that some people say it has taught them how to drive
Edited by smilerbaker on Monday 7th January 14:15
mr_fibuli said:
But games do teach the basic theory of drifting by balancing the throttle / opposite lock. The better ones also give you a feel for the effects of weight transfer, lift-off oversteer, and the differences between front and rear wheel drive.
No, they dont.Have you actually driven a car???? there are far more 'inputs' then just a joystick and small screen in front of you.
Games follow a set mathmatical formula, do the same move twice and you'll get the same result twice. Jesus I hope you never drive behind me.
edited to sort out the quote
Edited by smilerbaker on Monday 7th January 14:20
I'd say from simming that I've learnt alot about why cars do what they do in real life, but I still think real life driving is quite a lot different.
I think the main thing is you have no idea of g's, so you can be driving really fast in a game without realising it. In real life if you start pushing 0.5g lateral around fast corners you really know about it for example, wheras in a game you just get the camera moving a bit to the outside and a screechy tyre noise
Dave
I think the main thing is you have no idea of g's, so you can be driving really fast in a game without realising it. In real life if you start pushing 0.5g lateral around fast corners you really know about it for example, wheras in a game you just get the camera moving a bit to the outside and a screechy tyre noise
Dave
I'm pretty rubbish at driving games, and can't really get used to not being able to look where I want to, or feel how much of an input you're putting in. I played Live for Speed on a friend's computer with a wheel and pedals, and that was very good however. You had to be super-smooth or you just couldn't drive the thing. I don't know why it was so much more realistic than say, GT1, but it was. And the only time i've been on a track I was complemented for smoothness, so I guess it is transferable to reality to some extent.
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