G50 target weight
Discussion
I asked onthe Ginetta stand at Autosport. The answer is ........ no ......... the car wighs in at 970kg in race trim. I wonder how much heavier the road car will be.
They also said that the factory will be producing 300 cars per annum, a mixture of race and road cars, bit about 18 months till road car is ready.
The G50 looks great, nothing at all like a Panoz.
They also said that the factory will be producing 300 cars per annum, a mixture of race and road cars, bit about 18 months till road car is ready.
The G50 looks great, nothing at all like a Panoz.
The Walkletts have always, despite what is said about Lotus, been the kings of the 'lightweight'.
They did it years ago and can still do it today.
Look at the new G12, the G4, even the TG Sport weighed in at 590kg.
My softspot, although I love the G4 and G12, has to be the DZ.
In supercharged form weighed 680kg, had 210bhp and 195 lb/ft torque giving it 313 bhp per ton!
They did it years ago and can still do it today.
Look at the new G12, the G4, even the TG Sport weighed in at 590kg.
My softspot, although I love the G4 and G12, has to be the DZ.
In supercharged form weighed 680kg, had 210bhp and 195 lb/ft torque giving it 313 bhp per ton!
of course power to weight is not everything... but u know the G12 will outhandle almost anything- plus its a real Ginetta made by the Walkletts.. and it will be less than 40K (i hope)...... so which would u rather have??
plus i believe the thread was about weight, so if you're not concerned about power/weight then why ask
plus i believe the thread was about weight, so if you're not concerned about power/weight then why ask
Edited by geeeman on Saturday 19th January 11:11
geeeman said:
but u know the G12 will outhandle almost anything- plus its a real Ginetta made by the Walkletts.. and it will be less than 40K (i hope)...... so
This begs an interesting question then....If the G50 should prove quicker than a G12 on the track, then would you then call it a "proper" Ginetta? Or are we simply so stuck in the past that anything post 1992 is not worthy of the badge??Edited by geeeman on Saturday 19th January 11:11
Its not that the G50 is not worthy of being called a Ginetta- its quite impressive. But its an unusual situation as Dare are still around making cars, and they dont get enough recongnition for it. As long as they are making Ginettas why would i want one from Sheffield??
-This year is as much about 50yrs of the Walkletts as 50 yrs of Ginetta...
-This year is as much about 50yrs of the Walkletts as 50 yrs of Ginetta...
geeeman said:
Its not that the G50 is not worthy of being called a Ginetta- its quite impressive. But its an unusual situation as Dare are still around making cars, and they dont get enough recongnition for it. As long as they are making Ginettas why would i want one from Sheffield??
-This year is as much about 50yrs of the Walkletts as 50 yrs of Ginetta...
I think both manufacturers are to be supported and encouraged. Dare will almost certainly always be smaller than Ginetta was and are now, and the fact the LNT have picked up the marque and are developing good cars under the Ginetta brand is good for all Ginetta owners and Dare. 350 G50's per year and contempory race success can only be a good thing.-This year is as much about 50yrs of the Walkletts as 50 yrs of Ginetta...
No one is disputing the reputation that the Walkletts have built up, and that they have produced some great cars (and some mediocre ones)
Surely the people to get your Ginetta from are the people that make the one you want. If you want a G12 then it has to be Dare, if you want a G50 it has to be Ginetta.
You can't really compare the two cars, G12 is a classic design and retro (or dated to some people) in its looks, G50 is modern, you pay your money and take your choice.
Personally I love the G12, but would have a G50, because it will fit me, and because i prefer its looks, and ultimately as a road car i thinkit will easier to live with whilst still having some of the rarity of being a Ginetta.
Lets recognise what both companies do.
Edited by nicktowe on Monday 21st January 16:43
geeeman said:
of course power to weight is not everything... but u know the G12 will outhandle almost anything- plus its a real Ginetta made by the Walkletts.. and it will be less than 40K (i hope)...... so which would u rather have??
plus i believe the thread was about weight, so if you're not concerned about power/weight then why ask
If the G12 has such great handling and such good power to weight ratio, why are they not being raced everywhere? plus i believe the thread was about weight, so if you're not concerned about power/weight then why ask
Edited by geeeman on Saturday 19th January 11:11
Interesting question, is a Lotus no longer a real Lotus (the Exige will whip almost any car of the same size and power on a track), is a Ferrari no longer a Ferrari, or Lamborghini no longer a Lamborghini?.....Surely not, so why is a Ginetta G50, not a real Ginetta? If to be a Ginetta it has to be built by the Walkletts, then that is a narrow definition and a lotus not built by Colin Chapman wouldn't be a Lotus, a Rolls wouldn't be a Rolls, etc
Surely to be a Ginetta it has to be a race bred sports car, basic but fast, and wearing a Ginetta Badge. To be a Dare it meets the same criteria wearing a Dare badge.
All businesses evolve, as a Ginetta owner (is the G33 a proper Ginetta) I respect what both companies are doing. But I also wonder if Ginetta would still exist, it it wasn't for LNT. If Ginetta had remained in the hands of the Walkletts i suspect that there wouldn't be a company producing new designs for us to debate.
Edited by nicktowe on Monday 21st January 17:01
we seem to have lost my original point....... That the new G12 (which should be much more road friendly) will have potential to be very quick due to its very light weight. simple as that
The G50 and LNT are no doubt a good thing for Ginetta in general, but my personal preference will always be something made by the Walkletts.
The point about a modern lotus still being a lotus is flawed when applied to Ginetta-- because with Ginetta the original designers are still around making cars now!! that cant be said for almost any other marque.
The G50 and LNT are no doubt a good thing for Ginetta in general, but my personal preference will always be something made by the Walkletts.
The point about a modern lotus still being a lotus is flawed when applied to Ginetta-- because with Ginetta the original designers are still around making cars now!! that cant be said for almost any other marque.
To add to Geeman, his last point. Colin Chapman didn't 'build' his cars, nor design them come to that - it was only later that Ron Hickman (Black & Decker Workmate) got credit for designing the Elan, for example.
Ivor Walklett is hands on designing and building and is still doing it!
G12s and G4s are not badged as DAREs, they are badged as GINETTAs!
Nick says is the G33 a proper Ginetta? 'Course it is! Designed by the Walkletts.
As for would Ginetta still exist if it was still in the hands of the Walkletts? Of course it would - only age/illness halted it.
They didn't even want to sell in 1989 and I am convinced had Doug not been very ill there would have been no sale.
The Walkletts are passionate about the marque, and theoretically Ginetta still does exist in the Walklett's hands - the G4 and G12 'are' Ginettas, always will be - they are the family silver of the marque, which got sold by the previous owner.
Look at a DARE G4 or G12 next time you see one - tell me where the Dare purple badge is?
There isn't one.
Tell me where the orange Ginetta badge is?
Where it's always been - on the front of the bonnet!
So, in reality, Ginetta does still exist in the hands of the Walkletts. Not only have they continued to build the G12 and the G4 but race the latter too - and very successfully.
Sadly, Walklett Ginettas never got the real press they deserved.
Yet they are still here 50 years on.
LNT is a big organisation and imo are doing great things for the marque and have the capital I suspect to do so. It is great that the encompass the past cars like the ex G.Hill test G4 it owns and was driven at Goodwood, and purchasing of the well known G17 (a museum of Ginettas down the line would be nice thought) but my eyes caught the super looking G10 I understand they have bought.
It is apparently chassis no. 3 and C registered.
Hmm.
Ivor Walklett is hands on designing and building and is still doing it!
G12s and G4s are not badged as DAREs, they are badged as GINETTAs!
Nick says is the G33 a proper Ginetta? 'Course it is! Designed by the Walkletts.
As for would Ginetta still exist if it was still in the hands of the Walkletts? Of course it would - only age/illness halted it.
They didn't even want to sell in 1989 and I am convinced had Doug not been very ill there would have been no sale.
The Walkletts are passionate about the marque, and theoretically Ginetta still does exist in the Walklett's hands - the G4 and G12 'are' Ginettas, always will be - they are the family silver of the marque, which got sold by the previous owner.
Look at a DARE G4 or G12 next time you see one - tell me where the Dare purple badge is?
There isn't one.
Tell me where the orange Ginetta badge is?
Where it's always been - on the front of the bonnet!
So, in reality, Ginetta does still exist in the hands of the Walkletts. Not only have they continued to build the G12 and the G4 but race the latter too - and very successfully.
Sadly, Walklett Ginettas never got the real press they deserved.
Yet they are still here 50 years on.
LNT is a big organisation and imo are doing great things for the marque and have the capital I suspect to do so. It is great that the encompass the past cars like the ex G.Hill test G4 it owns and was driven at Goodwood, and purchasing of the well known G17 (a museum of Ginettas down the line would be nice thought) but my eyes caught the super looking G10 I understand they have bought.
It is apparently chassis no. 3 and C registered.
Hmm.
nicktowe said:
Interesting question, is a Lotus no longer a real Lotus (the Exige will whip almost any car of the same size and power on a track),
Edited by nicktowe on Monday 21st January 17:01
captainsensible said:
nicktowe said:
Interesting question, is a Lotus no longer a real Lotus (the Exige will whip almost any car of the same size and power on a track),
Edited by nicktowe on Monday 21st January 17:01
Generally, I am glad the debate is being had. Wouldn't it be good to see the same driver take the Dare G12 and the G50 out on the same circuit on the same day for a series of timed laps.
dandarez said:
LNT is a big organisation and imo are doing great things for the marque and have the capital I suspect to do so. It is great that the encompass the past cars like the ex G.Hill test G4 it owns and was driven at Goodwood, and purchasing of the well known G17 (a museum of Ginettas down the line would be nice thought) but my eyes caught the super looking G10 I understand they have bought.
It is apparently chassis no. 3 and C registered.
Hmm.
Ithink they may be building a museum of Ginettas, I was told at the Autosport Show that they are looking to buy a G33. I nearly offerred to swap mine for a G50, but have decided i want both, and for the record, I would also like a G12 and a G15. Unfortuntely I wouldn't like the accompanying divorce.It is apparently chassis no. 3 and C registered.
Hmm.
dandarez said:
Look at a DARE G4 or G12 next time you see one - tell me where the Dare purple badge is?
There isn't one.
Yes there is - it is on the bulkhead chassis plate. My understanding is that, under the terms of the licencing agreement, Dare cannot use 'Ginetta' badged chassis plates. Lovely car that it is, and I am glad that they are allowed to put the Ginetta badge on the bonnet, it would be more accurate to call it a 'Dare GT'. Calling it a G4 is a bit like calling a Caterham a Lotus....There isn't one.
As for the G50, LNT should be given credit for doing something in months that Dare could never achieve. I admire them both, but they are very different companies with very different qualities - and very different resources.
Looking to the future, how cool would it be if Dare continued to develop and build the G4 and G12 cars, and LNT/Ginetta did the marketing and sales?
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