Obvious signs of when you might need a rebuild on a S6 ?????
Discussion
I brought a great T350c for the first time 2 months ago, it was well looked after by previous owners, done my research !!! but feel concerned that it has never had a engine rebuild and car has done 33k miles, should I be and what might be the signs to keep my eyes open for just in case ??
£4,500 re-build could make my 2008 a headache.
Don't mean to be paranoid but like to be realistic.
£4,500 re-build could make my 2008 a headache.
Don't mean to be paranoid but like to be realistic.
Even when you do all the homework on your car it can still bite you bad,I bought my 2001 Tuscan recently with a engine rebuild in 2005 with 5000 miles on since work was done,a bit of damaged cat found its self in a piston leading to a rebuild (now decatted).
Luckily after reading many threads on here i had put aside a repair fund before buying a S6 ! Just didn't think i would need it so soon,no regrets though i love this car its awesome
Luckily after reading many threads on here i had put aside a repair fund before buying a S6 ! Just didn't think i would need it so soon,no regrets though i love this car its awesome
Unfortunately - tappet noise is not the only clue to problems.
The valves can also pull into the head and this means the cam to valve gap will get smaller.. so less noise.
Only a strip down or tappet measure and check can prove
there are no problems.
As has been said - it's best to have a contingency fund.
The valves can also pull into the head and this means the cam to valve gap will get smaller.. so less noise.
Only a strip down or tappet measure and check can prove
there are no problems.
As has been said - it's best to have a contingency fund.
mine had a rebuild 10k miles / 12 months ago at TVR Power, Im not anticipating any trouble for another year or two but I have the money sat in premium bonds just in case.. and you never know I might win a million in the mean-time!
Its a good incentive to save some money anyway, I have NEVER saved before owning a TVR and now I have a good reason to!
Its a good incentive to save some money anyway, I have NEVER saved before owning a TVR and now I have a good reason to!
The problem is that with the S6 a lot of the time you only realise when it's too late, I would as said before check the tappet adjustment, for you I would say the best bet is to have a chat with Matt at SP.
http://www.silverstoneperformance.co.uk/
They know their onions with the S6, I wouldn't write it off just yet.
Corin
http://www.silverstoneperformance.co.uk/
They know their onions with the S6, I wouldn't write it off just yet.
Corin
Bomber Denton said:
Just to add a £4.5k rebuild will only buy time before the next one, if you need to rebuild it has to be done properly, this will cost more. A fair bit more to be honest but that will give you a bit more peace of mind and help your resale value.
The £4.5k+VAT is TVR Powers full rebuild currently advertised price on the TVRCC Website (with £1000 reduction) are you implying this is not done properly.glow worm said:
Bomber Denton said:
Just to add a £4.5k rebuild will only buy time before the next one, if you need to rebuild it has to be done properly, this will cost more. A fair bit more to be honest but that will give you a bit more peace of mind and help your resale value.
The £4.5k+VAT is TVR Powers full rebuild currently advertised price on the TVRCC Website (with £1000 reduction) are you implying this is not done properly.It's a wonderful engine with a few fundamental flaws, I am not a major expert on the S6 so can't comment any further other than I would invest wisely in a rebuild.
Bomber Denton said:
glow worm said:
Bomber Denton said:
Just to add a £4.5k rebuild will only buy time before the next one, if you need to rebuild it has to be done properly, this will cost more. A fair bit more to be honest but that will give you a bit more peace of mind and help your resale value.
The £4.5k+VAT is TVR Powers full rebuild currently advertised price on the TVRCC Website (with £1000 reduction) are you implying this is not done properly.It's a wonderful engine with a few fundamental flaws, I am not a major expert on the S6 so can't comment any further other than I would invest wisely in a rebuild.
V6 MATT said:
I brought a great T350c for the first time 2 months ago, it was well looked after by previous owners, done my research !!! but feel concerned that it has never had a engine rebuild and car has done 33k miles, should I be and what might be the signs to keep my eyes open for just in case ??
£4,500 re-build could make my 2008 a headache.
Don't mean to be paranoid but like to be realistic.
There was no problems with my engine!!£4,500 re-build could make my 2008 a headache.
Don't mean to be paranoid but like to be realistic.
Edited by valhalla on Monday 21st January 22:38
V6 MATT said:
I brought a great T350c for the first time 2 months ago, it was well looked after by previous owners, done my research !!! but feel concerned that it has never had a engine rebuild and car has done 33k miles, should I be and what might be the signs to keep my eyes open for just in case ??
£4,500 re-build could make my 2008 a headache.
Don't mean to be paranoid but like to be realistic.
Dealers smiling when you come in.£4,500 re-build could make my 2008 a headache.
Don't mean to be paranoid but like to be realistic.
One of the mechanics booking a holiday in Barbados.
You being refused entry to the dealership whilst there's a potential customer there.
The previous owner buying you a drink.
Porsche owners pointing to you and laughing.
First sign I had was a noisy top end, sounded like the tappets where twice as loud as normal.
I sent it to Green Star TVR in Blackpool and they sorted it within a week. They even rang me so I could go down after the head was removed so I could look at the damage and as I expected the finger followers had worn through the hardened face which runs on the cam.
As far as I can remember about 3 had busted including exhaust cam shaft which was scored.
Green Star did the work and it was spot on.
The price was FAR less than the £4500 posted here but I don’t think it would be fair to say exactly what I paid but it was under £1500. The price included removal of engine, strip, replace ALL finger followers, replace cam which I supplied, rebuild.
I would really recommend Green Star, I even got a Cerb courtesy car !
I hop this doesn’t happed to anyone as it is a ball ache but Green Star are far cheaper than the rest and as the mechanic is ex TVR I know from experience they do a proper job.
I sent it to Green Star TVR in Blackpool and they sorted it within a week. They even rang me so I could go down after the head was removed so I could look at the damage and as I expected the finger followers had worn through the hardened face which runs on the cam.
As far as I can remember about 3 had busted including exhaust cam shaft which was scored.
Green Star did the work and it was spot on.
The price was FAR less than the £4500 posted here but I don’t think it would be fair to say exactly what I paid but it was under £1500. The price included removal of engine, strip, replace ALL finger followers, replace cam which I supplied, rebuild.
I would really recommend Green Star, I even got a Cerb courtesy car !
I hop this doesn’t happed to anyone as it is a ball ache but Green Star are far cheaper than the rest and as the mechanic is ex TVR I know from experience they do a proper job.
Edited by TVRxxx on Tuesday 22 January 12:35
TVRxxx said:
First sign I had was a noisy top end, sounded like the tappets where twice as loud as normal.
I sent it to Green Star TVR in Blackpool and they sorted it within a week. They even rang me so I could go down after the head was removed so I could look at the damage and as I expected the finger followers had worn through the hardened face which runs on the cam.
As far as I can remember about 3 had busted including exhaust cam shaft which was scored.
Green Star did the work and it was spot on.
The price was FAR less than the £4500 posted here but I don’t think it would be fair to say exactly what I paid but it was under £1500. The price included removal of engine, strip, replace ALL finger followers, replace cam which I supplied, rebuild.
I would really recommend Green Star, I even got a Cerb courtesy car !
I hop this doesn’t happed to anyone as it is a ball ache but Green Star are far cheaper than the rest and as the mechanic is ex TVR I know from experience they do a proper job.
I must say that is a fantastic price for a rebuild, if i might ask, how long did it take from start to finish. GordonI sent it to Green Star TVR in Blackpool and they sorted it within a week. They even rang me so I could go down after the head was removed so I could look at the damage and as I expected the finger followers had worn through the hardened face which runs on the cam.
As far as I can remember about 3 had busted including exhaust cam shaft which was scored.
Green Star did the work and it was spot on.
The price was FAR less than the £4500 posted here but I don’t think it would be fair to say exactly what I paid but it was under £1500. The price included removal of engine, strip, replace ALL finger followers, replace cam which I supplied, rebuild.
I would really recommend Green Star, I even got a Cerb courtesy car !
I hop this doesn’t happed to anyone as it is a ball ache but Green Star are far cheaper than the rest and as the mechanic is ex TVR I know from experience they do a proper job.
Edited by TVRxxx on Tuesday 22 January 12:35
Bomber Denton said:
Just to add a £4.5k rebuild will only buy time before the next one, if you need to rebuild it has to be done properly, this will cost more. A fair bit more to be honest but that will give you a bit more peace of mind and help your resale value.
Tvr Power will only offer quality products sometimes i personally get things wrong but i will assure you of this: all components are tested on static dyno, rolling road,endurance track testing BEFORE i promote my product this is not buying time what we offer is proven tested and reasonably priced @ £4500 + vat with 2yrs unlimited mileage warrantyOur 4.3 ltr speed six engine will be the best money can buy £8500 + vat + 3 yrs unlimited mileage warranty
Dom
I suspect if most Speed 6 owners were honest, the vast majority of them, regardless of the age or milage of their pride and joy would admit to feeling at best uneasy at the prospect of their engine going pop.
Some have taken out warranties in the hope that the insurance company will pick up the bill should the worst happen, others have felt that the only way forward was a complete strip down of the engine and replacing the internals with much higher spec (and cost!)components,others still, and I suspect these are the majority have invested in rabbit's feet and trusted to luck.
It is now generally accepted, that the quality of the parts fitted to many of the original engines was not all it might have been, and that a significant number of them needed to be rebuilt under warranty. The fact that many of these engines have failed a second time coupled with the fact that many of the later engines,have experienced problems has led to concerns that the design of the engine itself may be fundamentally flawed.
Many of the failures, regardless of whether or not they were at the top or the bottom of the engine, can be traced back to a lack of effective lubrication or cooling of the moving parts or bearings, suggesting that insufficient quantities of oil are being delivered to those areas of most stress/weakness.
It cannot help in this regard, that because of the dry sump arrangement, the oil has to travel much further, and so takes much longer to reach the engine than would be the case with an integral sump. This is further compounded by the fact that many Speed 6's sit idle for weeks, allowing any residual oil to drain from the component surfaces. It is also suggested that the oilways originally designed into the block by Mr Melling, to take oil to the top of the engine, were reduced in number, and capacity for reasons that in my opinion have never adequately been explained, when TVR productionised the engine.
It has been noted that the exhaust side of the valve train is particularly vulnerable to failure suggesting that this side of the engine may not be getting the same quantity or quality of lubrication as the inlet side.
Over the years the number of false dawns relating to the solving of the engines woes have been such that TVR owners have become rightly very sceptical that the problems would ever be fixed, however it may just be that a solution to the "dry running" has now been found.
Raceproved, the TVR parts upgrade Company, who many of you will know from their work rengineering the weak AP clutch, have for many months now been development testing a light weight Cam Cover integrated into which are a pair of oil spray bars positioned and adjusted to spray lubricant directly onto the valve trains. In addition to this the set up includes a pre lubrication system to bring the oil up to working pressure BEFORE the engine is started. The system uses its own electric based pump to send the oil from the reservoir, though its own separate oil filter to the spray bars at the top of the engine and also to the bottom via the original oil inlet. The pump continues to operate until the oil pressure sensor tells the system ecu that the engine is primed and allows ignition to commence. When the ecu is happy that the cars mechanical oil pump is maintaining pressure it switches off leaving the car pump to continue supplying oil to the spray bars and the rest of the engine.
Only time will tell whether or not this idea will produce the results for which we all hope. Some will consider it too expensive or not worth while, some will continue to put their faith in a regular rebuild or the indulgence of their warranty company, but for those who feel it has the potential to relieve their sleepless nights, it way well be worthy of further investigation.
I believe, by way of further recommendation that both Julian (TRACKCAR)at Trackcar Solutions and Keith at Clever Trevor have been actively involved in this project and would be able to answer any questions you may have. That such knowledgeable, genuine and well respected guys are on board will provide greater credibility and reassurance to many than I ever could.
For those of you going to the Chatsworth Gathering in May, I understand that the Raceproved Development Car will be there, and demonstrations of the system will be offered.
Some have taken out warranties in the hope that the insurance company will pick up the bill should the worst happen, others have felt that the only way forward was a complete strip down of the engine and replacing the internals with much higher spec (and cost!)components,others still, and I suspect these are the majority have invested in rabbit's feet and trusted to luck.
It is now generally accepted, that the quality of the parts fitted to many of the original engines was not all it might have been, and that a significant number of them needed to be rebuilt under warranty. The fact that many of these engines have failed a second time coupled with the fact that many of the later engines,have experienced problems has led to concerns that the design of the engine itself may be fundamentally flawed.
Many of the failures, regardless of whether or not they were at the top or the bottom of the engine, can be traced back to a lack of effective lubrication or cooling of the moving parts or bearings, suggesting that insufficient quantities of oil are being delivered to those areas of most stress/weakness.
It cannot help in this regard, that because of the dry sump arrangement, the oil has to travel much further, and so takes much longer to reach the engine than would be the case with an integral sump. This is further compounded by the fact that many Speed 6's sit idle for weeks, allowing any residual oil to drain from the component surfaces. It is also suggested that the oilways originally designed into the block by Mr Melling, to take oil to the top of the engine, were reduced in number, and capacity for reasons that in my opinion have never adequately been explained, when TVR productionised the engine.
It has been noted that the exhaust side of the valve train is particularly vulnerable to failure suggesting that this side of the engine may not be getting the same quantity or quality of lubrication as the inlet side.
Over the years the number of false dawns relating to the solving of the engines woes have been such that TVR owners have become rightly very sceptical that the problems would ever be fixed, however it may just be that a solution to the "dry running" has now been found.
Raceproved, the TVR parts upgrade Company, who many of you will know from their work rengineering the weak AP clutch, have for many months now been development testing a light weight Cam Cover integrated into which are a pair of oil spray bars positioned and adjusted to spray lubricant directly onto the valve trains. In addition to this the set up includes a pre lubrication system to bring the oil up to working pressure BEFORE the engine is started. The system uses its own electric based pump to send the oil from the reservoir, though its own separate oil filter to the spray bars at the top of the engine and also to the bottom via the original oil inlet. The pump continues to operate until the oil pressure sensor tells the system ecu that the engine is primed and allows ignition to commence. When the ecu is happy that the cars mechanical oil pump is maintaining pressure it switches off leaving the car pump to continue supplying oil to the spray bars and the rest of the engine.
Only time will tell whether or not this idea will produce the results for which we all hope. Some will consider it too expensive or not worth while, some will continue to put their faith in a regular rebuild or the indulgence of their warranty company, but for those who feel it has the potential to relieve their sleepless nights, it way well be worthy of further investigation.
I believe, by way of further recommendation that both Julian (TRACKCAR)at Trackcar Solutions and Keith at Clever Trevor have been actively involved in this project and would be able to answer any questions you may have. That such knowledgeable, genuine and well respected guys are on board will provide greater credibility and reassurance to many than I ever could.
For those of you going to the Chatsworth Gathering in May, I understand that the Raceproved Development Car will be there, and demonstrations of the system will be offered.
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