Skinny tyres are the way forward!

Skinny tyres are the way forward!

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Discussion

Chris71

Original Poster:

21,548 posts

249 months

Friday 23rd November 2007
quotequote all
Does anyone else reckon modern cars are getting a little bit quick to really be fun on UK roads?

I may not have had access to the exotic machinery that a few PHers have, but I've driven a reasonable number of quickish cars of various types and I'm coming to the conclusion that the slow ones are often the most fun.

Now maybe, just maybe, if you live in Snowdonia or the Highlands you can make real use of a 997 turbo, but for most of us the chances of getting a quiet enough road in an interesting area with a bit of run-off is pretty minimal. Instead, with more handling than grip even your drive to work can be fun.

I'm sure an Astra VXR Diesel would murder an original Lotus Elan point-to-point, but which would really be more fun? And you don't have to spend £10,000 on Hethel's finest either... I recently picked up my mum's old saxo; complete with 63bhp and tyres that would look about right on a unicycle. It completely knocks the socks of my previous daily driver that had 3 times the power and twice the contact patch area. In some respects, it's not even that far off my 220hp/ton kit car for sheer driving enjoyment. The diminutive Citroen only weighs about 150kgs more and as a result, it's actually quite frisky despite its power output being more akin to a lawnmower. The secret weapon however is its handling - yes, there is a certain amount of body roll and the steering is a tad vague around the straight ahead position, but it weights up perfectly as you go into a corner and provides the sort of communication you simply don't get with a power assisted rack fighting 300hp in a modern uber-hatch. Then if you reach the limit of adhesion - and on those tyres you will - a quick lift brings the nose gently and predictably into line. Adopt a more aggressive approach and you can even get quite considerable amounts of lift-off oversteer. You may smirk, but as a former 205 GTi owner I can vouch for a strong family resemblance.

I don't think I am the only person who appreciates the value of lightweight, chuckable car at the expense of headline grabbing figures either. Does anyone know how Gordon Murray's budget sportscar project is getting on?

900T-R

20,405 posts

264 months

Friday 23rd November 2007
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Try a New Mini on standard suspension and 175/65/15 Michelin 'Energy' tyres - so much more fluent and adjustable than on the larger wheel/tyre combos.

Never been a fan of the grip over handling brigade - why on earth does a 1.8 litre family car need 225 section tyres anyway...

Edited by 900T-R on Friday 23 November 12:23

dxg

8,780 posts

267 months

Friday 23rd November 2007
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It's so that when it lets go, it lets go suddenly and there's no chance of recovery.

I remember my old Punto - 55hp with 165 tyres and no power steering. That thing was fantastic fun on the roundabouts (even if you were only counteracting the understeer).

mcarrick69

1,916 posts

235 months

Friday 23rd November 2007
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Chris71 said:
an Astra VXR Diesel
A what??

Isnt it just the technology thats taking over the fun of driving. Traction control and all those 3 letter abrreviations like YAW, ESP, VDC... blah blah. even power steering.

JakeR

3,934 posts

276 months

Friday 23rd November 2007
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Westfield xi. 'Evo' loved it. 65 horsepower and crappy brakes. You dont need a million horsepower for fun...

dan101smith

16,868 posts

218 months

Friday 23rd November 2007
quotequote all
mcarrick69 said:
Chris71 said:
an Astra VXR Diesel
A what??

Isnt it just the technology thats taking over the fun of driving. Traction control and all those 3 letter abrreviations like YAW, ESP, VDC... blah blah. even power steering.
Is YAW an abbreviation? Or rotation around a vertical axis?

Chris71

Original Poster:

21,548 posts

249 months

Friday 23rd November 2007
quotequote all
JakeR said:
Westfield xi. 'Evo' loved it. 65 horsepower and crappy brakes. You dont need a million horsepower for fun...
yes

Gorgeous looking car too.

I think I'm right in saying there is a Diesel version of the Astra VXR. There is certainly a special edition conversion being offered by a dealership (Thirlbey or someone?) in conjunction with triple eight.

The exact car is a bit irrelevant - you can do 70mph round a bend in a modern technological tour de force with huge tyres and performance that isn't accessible on the average road or you can do 50mph round the same bend in a Morris Minor, grinning from ear to ear as it slides round on the 145 section tyres.

900T-R

20,405 posts

264 months

Friday 23rd November 2007
quotequote all
dan101smith said:
Is YAW an abbreviation? Or rotation around a vertical axis?


The latter - a yaw sensor measures, erm, rotation around a vertical axis.

JakeR

3,934 posts

276 months

Friday 23rd November 2007
quotequote all
go on then... lets list some suitable cars for conversion to skinny tyred, fun-at-legal-speeds, cross-ply shod grin wagons...

I'll start with a BMW E30 318is. LSD iirc, cheap to buy, rwd, enough power for 'progress' and would be a giggle on skinny tyres I reckon...

jon-

16,525 posts

223 months

Friday 23rd November 2007
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One of the reasons the Fiat Panda 100HP was so loved. Great little chassis with no grip = big grin.

LeoSayer

7,388 posts

251 months

Friday 23rd November 2007
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Cars too quick? No!

Definetely agree on the tyres though, apart from looking good I can see no point in wide and low profile tyres on family cars.

In my experience they generally give more road noise, less compliance over bumps, higher cost to replace, greater unsprung weight.

Chris71

Original Poster:

21,548 posts

249 months

Friday 23rd November 2007
quotequote all
LeoSayer said:
Cars too quick? No!

Definetely agree on the tyres though, apart from looking good I can see no point in wide and low profile tyres on family cars.

In my experience they generally give more road noise, less compliance over bumps, higher cost to replace, greater unsprung weight.
I suppose that brings up an interesting point. If we're talking about the real world we have to face the fact that even if your hooning only takes place at 45mph, you will find someone doing a fixed 40mph in front of you beforer too long and at that point you need to get past them smile

That's the only reason I would say that cars need to be fast in a straight line though. Any modern car can hold a reasonable cruise up the sort of incline you get on a motorway and with the right gearing and a suitably willing engine these 'slow' cars can even by quite fun in a straight line. I bet an original Fiat 500 Abarth is quite a laugh at the traffic lights...

disco1

1,963 posts

225 months

Friday 23rd November 2007
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Some of the most fun I've had in a car was my missus Ford Ka, went around roundabouts like a gokart

anonymous-user

61 months

Friday 23rd November 2007
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I have more fun driving my Hilux on off road tyres than any normal car I've driven, because it feels like you're right on the edge even at 10 mph, and I can get mini power slides going at such low speeds that I won't damage the vehicle even if I hit something.


Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 23 November 13:23

vrooom

3,763 posts

274 months

Friday 23rd November 2007
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Yep. That why i drive my girlfriend's 1.0L micra. its so much fun. I had 205 GTi. they are fun and pretty good.

mmm you got point.

Strawman

6,463 posts

214 months

Friday 23rd November 2007
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Skinny enough for you?

Felters

618 posts

206 months

Friday 23rd November 2007
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JakeR said:
Westfield xi. 'Evo' loved it. 65 horsepower and crappy brakes. You dont need a million horsepower for fun...
I went for the wide tyre option on mine - 155/70/13... still goes sideways at the touch of the loud pedal driving

volvos60s60

577 posts

221 months

Friday 23rd November 2007
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For more fun fit crossplies!

L100NYY

35,493 posts

250 months

Friday 23rd November 2007
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Chris you are absolutely right ol' chum. Classic cars with zero grip and tiddly brakes are what seperates the men from the boys!

With my 2002tii I am intentionally not going to go with huge sticky tyres and big brakes, I want it to be fun at sensible(ish) speeds and test my driving skills rather than set the fastest time from A-B.

The thrill of driving.

RobCrezz

7,892 posts

215 months

Friday 23rd November 2007
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There's a VXR Diesel now?