Potential New 911 (old) Owner
Discussion
Hello all - my younger brother is currently of the mind to get himself an older 911.
Model he would be after would be from around the early 70's before they put the big bumpers on (similar to the Yellow car for sale on this site).
I agree heartily with his choice but was wondering if anyone had some useful advice on the following.
* Galvanised bodies? When was this started
* Reliability - starts first time etc.
* Servicing (in Leeds) recommend anyone?
* Models? Which to go for.
* Drivability - easy to live with?
Thanks for any advice you may give.
Andrew
Model he would be after would be from around the early 70's before they put the big bumpers on (similar to the Yellow car for sale on this site).
I agree heartily with his choice but was wondering if anyone had some useful advice on the following.
* Galvanised bodies? When was this started
* Reliability - starts first time etc.
* Servicing (in Leeds) recommend anyone?
* Models? Which to go for.
* Drivability - easy to live with?
Thanks for any advice you may give.
Andrew
Don't do a 70's one - hundreds of reasons why, but the most important is that FULL and DECENT galvanisation started with the 3.2 in 1984 (B reg and younger).
The previous SC was galvanised, but trust me, I've seen rusty 3.0 SCs, but not a single rusty 3.2
Okay, other important things happened with the 3.2:
-Better Bosch engine management and injection (Motronic not K-Jet)
-Better interior from about C reg onwards
- More power (up to 231)
- Much nicer gearbox (G50) from 1987 or so
- Less engine problems. 3.0 SCs had probs with head studs working themselves out and with the chain being under-lubricated. You can modify these engines, but why bother when a 3.2 can cost as little as 7 grand in LHD form and looks like the earlier cars anyway?
Other questions:
* Galvanised bodies? When was this started
Go for the galvanisation post 84 (3.2 Carrera)
* Reliability - starts first time etc.
Oh yes indeed. Can't be faulted, but watch out for heater problems, a graunchy clutch and crash damage.
* Servicing (in Leeds) recommend anyone?
Buy Porsche and 911 World magazine and see who's near. I'm down south so can't recommend anyone really.
* Models? Which to go for.
3.2 Carrera, latest you can afford (post 87 has the G50 box, at least in LHD, and they made small improvements every year).
* Drivability - easy to live with?
Very easy to live with, great visibility and two small seats in the back that do four adults at a squeeze (and a crooked neck or two). However, do not expect to get large items in the car as there is no ski hatch etc - the boot is quite shallow and not very long. Also, the floor mounted pedals are downright weird if you've never driven a Beetle (you will get used to them, though), and the handling is unique. You can feel the weight at the back. Makes for good traction though.
Lovely sound, 150 mph, go for it.
Cheers
Domster
The previous SC was galvanised, but trust me, I've seen rusty 3.0 SCs, but not a single rusty 3.2
Okay, other important things happened with the 3.2:
-Better Bosch engine management and injection (Motronic not K-Jet)
-Better interior from about C reg onwards
- More power (up to 231)
- Much nicer gearbox (G50) from 1987 or so
- Less engine problems. 3.0 SCs had probs with head studs working themselves out and with the chain being under-lubricated. You can modify these engines, but why bother when a 3.2 can cost as little as 7 grand in LHD form and looks like the earlier cars anyway?
Other questions:
* Galvanised bodies? When was this started
Go for the galvanisation post 84 (3.2 Carrera)
* Reliability - starts first time etc.
Oh yes indeed. Can't be faulted, but watch out for heater problems, a graunchy clutch and crash damage.
* Servicing (in Leeds) recommend anyone?
Buy Porsche and 911 World magazine and see who's near. I'm down south so can't recommend anyone really.
* Models? Which to go for.
3.2 Carrera, latest you can afford (post 87 has the G50 box, at least in LHD, and they made small improvements every year).
* Drivability - easy to live with?
Very easy to live with, great visibility and two small seats in the back that do four adults at a squeeze (and a crooked neck or two). However, do not expect to get large items in the car as there is no ski hatch etc - the boot is quite shallow and not very long. Also, the floor mounted pedals are downright weird if you've never driven a Beetle (you will get used to them, though), and the handling is unique. You can feel the weight at the back. Makes for good traction though.
Lovely sound, 150 mph, go for it.
Cheers
Domster
Pleased to help.
Let me know how your brother gets on.
A good chap for him to talk to is Ray Northway, who will give advice (much better than mine!!!) for the price of a phone call. Find him at www.northwayporsche.co.uk
Rgds
Domster
Let me know how your brother gets on.
A good chap for him to talk to is Ray Northway, who will give advice (much better than mine!!!) for the price of a phone call. Find him at www.northwayporsche.co.uk
Rgds
Domster
domster's reply was v. knowledgeable... if you want a really anorak level of info try one of the dedicated porker channels - e.g. www.titanic.co.uk & follow the porsche links.
alternatively take a look at www.porkers.co.uk.
you don't mention how much he wants to spend but now definitely looks a good time to buy (i.e. I've lost LOADS on my '90 911!). as with all cars, but especially 911s, buy the best you can afford as the lower repair bills will easily outweigh any initial savings - parts & labour are V expensive for these cars. don't consider anything for less than 10k, but 15k will buy a great early 70s car and even a great early 90s car.
happy hunting...
alternatively take a look at www.porkers.co.uk.
you don't mention how much he wants to spend but now definitely looks a good time to buy (i.e. I've lost LOADS on my '90 911!). as with all cars, but especially 911s, buy the best you can afford as the lower repair bills will easily outweigh any initial savings - parts & labour are V expensive for these cars. don't consider anything for less than 10k, but 15k will buy a great early 70s car and even a great early 90s car.
happy hunting...
Ye gods, that's nearly as much as the car!!! I got my Elan (fwd) put on classic insurance by Footman James at 21. This was <£1k per annum for 10k miles. An early 80s Porsche should qualify as a "future classic." There are usually lots of classic ins. adverts in the back of Classic&Sportscar. Hope this helps reign in the costs a bit 
I'd have to say go for it if he can get a decent quote. My father's got a 87 911, a 71 2.2l 911, a 959 and a 968CS and I've got a 993 C4. The 87's easily the most fun of the 911s. Wings and things cars stay more planted at high (ie 120+) mph but, IMHO, are a bit 'yuppy.' Your biggest problem with an early 80s car (provided you get a decent one-try Autofarm http://freespace.virgin.net/auto.farm/sales.html)will be with the heating system. Heat exchangers can rust through, SS ones are highly recommended, and the automatic ventilation system on 80s cars is a bit tempramental (Porsche even included a manual override !)
If you must have an early one buy from a specialist and find one that someone else has spent the money on. A quality body rebuild on a 71 911 comes in at at least £20k and you could easily spend the same again on the rest of it without ever ending up with a drive every day car... You'll see adverts for 70s cars saying "rust free" and "fully restored." Get evidence !
I'd have to say go for it if he can get a decent quote. My father's got a 87 911, a 71 2.2l 911, a 959 and a 968CS and I've got a 993 C4. The 87's easily the most fun of the 911s. Wings and things cars stay more planted at high (ie 120+) mph but, IMHO, are a bit 'yuppy.' Your biggest problem with an early 80s car (provided you get a decent one-try Autofarm http://freespace.virgin.net/auto.farm/sales.html)will be with the heating system. Heat exchangers can rust through, SS ones are highly recommended, and the automatic ventilation system on 80s cars is a bit tempramental (Porsche even included a manual override !)
If you must have an early one buy from a specialist and find one that someone else has spent the money on. A quality body rebuild on a 71 911 comes in at at least £20k and you could easily spend the same again on the rest of it without ever ending up with a drive every day car... You'll see adverts for 70s cars saying "rust free" and "fully restored." Get evidence !
Yeah, I think I forgot to mention heat exchangers!
Re: insurance, 8k is taking the piss.
First try the Porsche specialists Nowell and Richards - I've had excellent service from them, number used to be 01785 715115.
Also try Adrian Flux.
I could have insured an 87 3.2 Carrera aged 24 for just over a grand, as Nowell and Richards used to count you as 25 when aged 24.
Hope this helps
Domster
Re: insurance, 8k is taking the piss.
First try the Porsche specialists Nowell and Richards - I've had excellent service from them, number used to be 01785 715115.
Also try Adrian Flux.
I could have insured an 87 3.2 Carrera aged 24 for just over a grand, as Nowell and Richards used to count you as 25 when aged 24.
Hope this helps
Domster
quote:
Yeah, I think I forgot to mention heat exchangers!
Re: insurance, 8k is taking the piss.
I think you covered everything else though! It's almost enough to convince you to buy a TVR...
£8k seems really odd, wonder if they new what they were quoting on? I've being paying 5k on a newish 993 with some light engine mods but it'll drop to £1.8k when I renew even if I stay with the same insurers (which isn't going to happen
) Notice you've got a Lotus Carlton domster. What Porker did you drive ? Did some little doms result in the change
? Edited by jaydee on Monday 17th December 11:14
Seems silly money to me...
I use Asset Trust for my 944 S2. I'm 24 and it costs me £480 per annum ( but restricted to 5000 miles p.a. Classic Policy).
They were so much cheaper than everyone else it was comical.
Tell him to stick below 5000 miles and use the other 7.5 grand to buy a runaround!
I use Asset Trust for my 944 S2. I'm 24 and it costs me £480 per annum ( but restricted to 5000 miles p.a. Classic Policy).
They were so much cheaper than everyone else it was comical.
Tell him to stick below 5000 miles and use the other 7.5 grand to buy a runaround!
Hi Jaydee
No little doms as of yet... got the Lotus Carlton after a spell with a Caterham and was making hi-fi shelving systems part time, so needed more accommodation. Also, 187 mph unofficial top whack in a standard Lotus Carlton appealed!
I have owned a 944S2 cabrio and 944 Turbo with suspension upgrade, but have had access to a 968, 3.2 Carrera and currently have access to a C2. By no means an expert, but I read enough and saw enough (friend's 7k restoration on an 11k 3.0SC!) to learn a few things and form an opinion or two.
Will be flogging the LC very soon to make way for a Porker, dunno what type yet. The LC doesn't go around corners like a two-seater, and I could do with more fun on the twisties. The LC really takes your breath away above 120mph though, and cruises at 2000 rpm at the ton in sixth... great cruiser.
Re: 968 for 12k, I reckon you could get a decent LHD one for that. Make sure belts are done, power steering pump is silent, gearbox isn't stiff and engine dry... plus FSH etc. Should be okay.
Cheers
Domster
No little doms as of yet... got the Lotus Carlton after a spell with a Caterham and was making hi-fi shelving systems part time, so needed more accommodation. Also, 187 mph unofficial top whack in a standard Lotus Carlton appealed!
I have owned a 944S2 cabrio and 944 Turbo with suspension upgrade, but have had access to a 968, 3.2 Carrera and currently have access to a C2. By no means an expert, but I read enough and saw enough (friend's 7k restoration on an 11k 3.0SC!) to learn a few things and form an opinion or two.
Will be flogging the LC very soon to make way for a Porker, dunno what type yet. The LC doesn't go around corners like a two-seater, and I could do with more fun on the twisties. The LC really takes your breath away above 120mph though, and cruises at 2000 rpm at the ton in sixth... great cruiser.
Re: 968 for 12k, I reckon you could get a decent LHD one for that. Make sure belts are done, power steering pump is silent, gearbox isn't stiff and engine dry... plus FSH etc. Should be okay.
Cheers
Domster
quote:
187 mph unofficial top whack in a standard Lotus Carlton appealed!
Yep, I can see that being appealling
"By no means an expert, but I read enough and saw enough (friend's 7k restoration on an 11k 3.0SC!) to learn a few things and form an opinion or two."
'bout the same here. My father operates on the paying someone who knows what they're doing principal but I saw enough of the 2.2's rebuild to know I wouldn't want to take one on:
An alledged SA car-RHD-but I'd be amazed if it had ever got further than Southhampton, and it was from a supposedly reputable dealer! The sills had been repaired, but weren't straight and looked as though they'd had a salt bath before fitting. The car came back from the blasters looking like a doilly...
"Will be flogging the LC very soon to make way for a Porker"
UK RHD 968CS will be advertised in Feb. on here. 35k, one owner, FPSH, nasty (original) yellow colour, summer toy carcooned in winter, no damage at all anywhere (We'll pay for an ad. when the time comes Ted
) Best handling front-engined RWD car ever IMO. "Re: 968 for 12k, I reckon you could get a decent LHD one for that."
RHD would be pushing it though and a lot of them (esp. clubsport spec.) are shagged now.
If still on the lookout in Feb, may very well be interested in your Club Sport.
I think Speed Yellow is a great colour, although Maritime Blue is a fave on RSs etc
Big question though - does it have the M030 pack? I'm not sure a non M030 CS could tempt me from a C2 911 etc
Also, what are you replacing it with? I know a very fast four seater that will be up for sale or p/x, but to be honest, Porsche build quality is a step ahead of Vauxhall's and Lotus's combined!!!
Cheers
Domster
I think Speed Yellow is a great colour, although Maritime Blue is a fave on RSs etc
Big question though - does it have the M030 pack? I'm not sure a non M030 CS could tempt me from a C2 911 etc
Also, what are you replacing it with? I know a very fast four seater that will be up for sale or p/x, but to be honest, Porsche build quality is a step ahead of Vauxhall's and Lotus's combined!!!
Cheers
Domster
quote:
Big question though - does it have the M030 pack? I'm not sure a non M030 CS could tempt me from a C2 911 etc
Didn't UK supplied CS come with this ? It's my father's car so I'm not sure...
quote:
Also, what are you replacing it with? I know a very fast four seater that will be up for sale or p/x, but to be honest, Porsche build quality is a step ahead of Vauxhall's and Lotus's combined!!!
An island. No I'm not joking. All of my father's cars will be for sale apart from the '71 (labour of love !) as will the family home (sniff, sniff
)MO30 pack was the motorsport option... red Turbo calipers, larger cross drilled brakes, uprated Bilstein supension and LSD.
It was about 2k extra on UK cars if I remember, which put off some purchasers as the CS was launched more as a budget Porsche than as an enthusiasts one. (The 964RS sold for 10k more than the 964C2, yet the 968CS undercut the standard 968 by about 4 grand).
I hope your dad's island is somewhere nice!
Cheers
Domster
It was about 2k extra on UK cars if I remember, which put off some purchasers as the CS was launched more as a budget Porsche than as an enthusiasts one. (The 964RS sold for 10k more than the 964C2, yet the 968CS undercut the standard 968 by about 4 grand).
I hope your dad's island is somewhere nice!
Cheers
Domster
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