Discussion
y Mini (93 1275 carb Mayfair) refused to start on Friday night. Ignition light came on, turned the key.........and 'gunk'. Thats it. No clicking. Bump started it, drove 15 mile home. Switched it off. Refused to start. The lights dim if you try to start it with them on. Checked and fully charged the battery. The starter motor gets warm, and you can hear the 'click' of the solenoid engaging the pinion. I've tried another starter, still no joy. Checked both off the car via jump leads, and both work fine. Gave up, and the RAC came out to me. After using all his diagnostic stuff, he said the starter was fine, but rocking the car in gear, he said the engine feels tight. He tried turning the pulley with a spanner, and said it was tight, and tried the same after removing the plugs to cancel out compression, before declaring the engine had seized. Does that sound right? Is there anything I can try? The car has only done 50k, and has had regular oil & filter changes.
Reading your previous post I can't believe it has seized if you drove it home.
Is the starter sticking in mesh with the flywheel I wonder?
Could there be a leak from the water jacket to the cylinders causing a hydraulic lock? If the inlet manifold is water heated and has corroded through then it could draw water in that way too. Had this on a Cortina Mk 2 yonks ago. If you take out the plugs and spin it over you'll know. Or have you overfilled the oil?
Will go away and think
Tony H
Is the starter sticking in mesh with the flywheel I wonder?
Could there be a leak from the water jacket to the cylinders causing a hydraulic lock? If the inlet manifold is water heated and has corroded through then it could draw water in that way too. Had this on a Cortina Mk 2 yonks ago. If you take out the plugs and spin it over you'll know. Or have you overfilled the oil?
Will go away and think
Tony H
Put the car in top gear and see if you can nudge the engine over by rocking the car. If you can, it hasn't seized. The fact that this has happened previously and the engine started and run afterwards also shows that it wasn't seized before so probably isn't seized now. I'd suspect it's something silly like the earth strap failing.
Does the 2nd starter motor get warm as well? It does suggest that power is definitely getting to the starter but it has nowhere to turn, hence the heat.
Have you tested the original starter motor? Is the 2nd starter in good working order? Do you have any history of the engine, has it been looked after? Can you be certain that the engine has done 50k as it is obviously not the original one for the car?
I'm inclined to go with the suggestion above that it's something ring gear/starter related.
Check the teeth on the starter motor. Does the 2nd starter have the same number of teeth? Look inside the casing and see if you can see any damage to the ring gear.
Don't write it off too soon, there are other things you can try.....
Have you tested the original starter motor? Is the 2nd starter in good working order? Do you have any history of the engine, has it been looked after? Can you be certain that the engine has done 50k as it is obviously not the original one for the car?
I'm inclined to go with the suggestion above that it's something ring gear/starter related.
Check the teeth on the starter motor. Does the 2nd starter have the same number of teeth? Look inside the casing and see if you can see any damage to the ring gear.
Don't write it off too soon, there are other things you can try.....
Check the battery leads and, if possible, run an additional battery lead 9a jump lead, maybe, direct from the starter casing to the battery negative to eliminate that as a possible cause. If it still won't turn over, is the battery OK. It may indicate full charge, but if the actual battery capacity is reduced because it's old and knackered, it may not have enough in it to turn the engine over.
It does seem most unlkely that it has seized if you could bump-start it and then drive it. Even a brand new engine freshly bored and which is 'tight' will turn over on the starter with a good battery. If you think it may be partially seized you could remove the radiator and put a socket and torque wrench on the front pulley bolt and measure the torque needed to turn it over by hand. I guess that anything over about 30 lb.ft would indicate a partial seizure. But what would make a 50k mile engine seize? Certainly not the bores, unless it's been standing with water in the bores for some time.
I have had experience with some late 1275 engines in which the centre main bearing housing was machined undersize rom new and that has caused the centre main bearing shells to wear rather rapidly, but that did not cause seizure, just stiffness when new and one might suppose that the factory just 'forced' them to turn over then rant them and soon they freed off (yes, really, that was Rover quality control!).
My best guess is a problem in the starting electrical system, either the earth, the solenoid connections or the main positive battery connection at one end or the other.
Also , do you have an oil p[ressure gauge and what does it read when it's runing?
A seized car will usually not bump start and run properly. It may start and run roughly, then get hot or rip out the bearings or piston rings and smoke or rattle with disasterous results.
It does seem most unlkely that it has seized if you could bump-start it and then drive it. Even a brand new engine freshly bored and which is 'tight' will turn over on the starter with a good battery. If you think it may be partially seized you could remove the radiator and put a socket and torque wrench on the front pulley bolt and measure the torque needed to turn it over by hand. I guess that anything over about 30 lb.ft would indicate a partial seizure. But what would make a 50k mile engine seize? Certainly not the bores, unless it's been standing with water in the bores for some time.
I have had experience with some late 1275 engines in which the centre main bearing housing was machined undersize rom new and that has caused the centre main bearing shells to wear rather rapidly, but that did not cause seizure, just stiffness when new and one might suppose that the factory just 'forced' them to turn over then rant them and soon they freed off (yes, really, that was Rover quality control!).
My best guess is a problem in the starting electrical system, either the earth, the solenoid connections or the main positive battery connection at one end or the other.
Also , do you have an oil p[ressure gauge and what does it read when it's runing?
A seized car will usually not bump start and run properly. It may start and run roughly, then get hot or rip out the bearings or piston rings and smoke or rattle with disasterous results.
Tried the earlier question by turning it on the pulley with a spanner and its very tight. Also tried rocking it in 4th, still no joy. The car has been mine since 19k, one previous old lady owner, all the other mileage has been put on by me. And has regular oil and filter changes. Tested both starters off the car, and they work. It seemed to be running fine an hour before the trouble started. As I say, it bumped easily, and the 15mile drive home felt no different to the previous 30k. I'm confused. Would it be more viable to buy a second hand 1275 and swap them, or get this one rebuilt? Was hoping to get more power in a engine swap within the next couple of years (Had it rolling roaded 2 yrs ago @ 49bhp haha).
Sounds mad but have you tried it with your foot on the clutch? I lunched a suzuki jeep gearbox so much that it locked up totally. I was stuck and so I just gave it major revs and dumped the clutch in first so much that it smashed the box totally and allowed me to move it off the road. That was a no-tools, no phone, busy road scenario. I had to do that. Made quite a large bang!
molineux1980 said:
Tried the earlier question by turning it on the pulley with a spanner and its very tight. Also tried rocking it in 4th, still no joy. The car has been mine since 19k, one previous old lady owner, all the other mileage has been put on by me. And has regular oil and filter changes. Tested both starters off the car, and they work. It seemed to be running fine an hour before the trouble started. As I say, it bumped easily, and the 15mile drive home felt no different to the previous 30k. I'm confused. Would it be more viable to buy a second hand 1275 and swap them, or get this one rebuilt? Was hoping to get more power in a engine swap within the next couple of years (Had it rolling roaded 2 yrs ago @ 49bhp haha).
If you have some sort of problem and are also planning to get more power, you might be best off rebuilding (or having rebuilt) the engine you have got. With a 2nd hand engine you don't know its history and really would need to strip it before fitting it. With you own engine, if you want c.90 bhp it's easy to evolve a spec which will suit your needs. Then, everything will be new and you'll know exactly where you are starting from. If you want a spec for such an engine, email me and I'll send you one.Peter
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