What Specification for Challenge Stradale
Discussion
Don't know when I'll have to spec the Stradale, but rather than leave it to the last minute, thought I'd poll opinion now. It's going to be red (probably the orangey red used on the F1 cars), and I don't want luggage or a 6 CD (FFS!)in it , but other than that the spec isn't fixed. Which option boxes would you tick?
Sliding Lexan windows- no cost option
4 point harness- no cost option
road legal aluminium roll bar- £1,703.75
Three colour racing stripe- £3,642.50
coloured dash- £411.25
coloured steering wheel- £211.50
Leather headlining- £235.00
coloured stitching- £152.75
dedication plate- £211.50
Leather on rear shelf & door sill mouldings- £1,151.50
Sat nav- £1,527.50
Fire extinguisher- £340.75
Though it's not on the options list, I believe you need to specify leather or alcantara seats. The stripe's back on the 'maybe' list as Mrs 456 thinks it ruins it.
Well, what d'you think?
Sliding Lexan windows- no cost option
4 point harness- no cost option
road legal aluminium roll bar- £1,703.75
Three colour racing stripe- £3,642.50
coloured dash- £411.25
coloured steering wheel- £211.50
Leather headlining- £235.00
coloured stitching- £152.75
dedication plate- £211.50
Leather on rear shelf & door sill mouldings- £1,151.50
Sat nav- £1,527.50
Fire extinguisher- £340.75
Though it's not on the options list, I believe you need to specify leather or alcantara seats. The stripe's back on the 'maybe' list as Mrs 456 thinks it ruins it.
Well, what d'you think?
I would go for the following :-
4 point harness
Three colour racing stripe
Coloured dash ( Red I assume )
Coloured steering wheel ( Red I assume )
Leather headlining
Coloured stitching ( Red I assume )
Dedication plate ( but only if dedicated to your friends on PH
)
Leather on rear shelf & door sill mouldings
( Not 100% but probably ) :-
Fire extinguisher
Road legal aluminium roll bar
Trouble is I could easily change opinion on most things based on what the general trends are. Have the dealers given any indication on what most are going for ?
Frostie
4 point harness
Three colour racing stripe
Coloured dash ( Red I assume )
Coloured steering wheel ( Red I assume )
Leather headlining
Coloured stitching ( Red I assume )
Dedication plate ( but only if dedicated to your friends on PH
) Leather on rear shelf & door sill mouldings
( Not 100% but probably ) :-
Fire extinguisher
Road legal aluminium roll bar
Trouble is I could easily change opinion on most things based on what the general trends are. Have the dealers given any indication on what most are going for ?
Frostie
Unsure about the spec but what a great choice of car Kevin - Didn't think you would cope too long without a 360!!
Unless you ae going to track it a LOT (although I think you should!) I'd probably avoid the rollcage if it has door bars, as getting in and out would be a pain, and unless you get lost a lot Sat Nav is often more hassle than it's worth, but the rest of the options sound very tempting!
I think I'd take alcanatara over leather for the seats as it is less sweaty and slippery when moist..
Unless you ae going to track it a LOT (although I think you should!) I'd probably avoid the rollcage if it has door bars, as getting in and out would be a pain, and unless you get lost a lot Sat Nav is often more hassle than it's worth, but the rest of the options sound very tempting!
I think I'd take alcanatara over leather for the seats as it is less sweaty and slippery when moist..
Does it come with that exhaust as per video on earlier thread??? That would be a defo
. My answers would be:
Sliding Lexan windows- no cost option
4 point harness- no cost option
road legal aluminium roll bar- £1,703.75
, (safety) Three colour racing stripe- £3,642.50
How much??? A def NO,
coloured dash- £411.25 OIh my god
, reflection probs in anything other than black. coloured steering wheel- £211.50
Noooooooooo!! Leather headlining- £235.00
, looks good. coloured stitching- £152.75
as long as you dont go for RED seats!! 
dedication plate- £211.50
You must be joking! 
Leather on rear shelf & door sill mouldings- £1,151.50
too much leather!!! Sat nav- £1,527.50
seems reasonable price Fire extinguisher- £340.75 A definate
. (safety) I dont think you will need to seperate yourself from a "normal" 360 owner by adding all that horrid paraphanalia (sp). I think it may spoil what is going to be a truly fantastic car.
I very much look fwd to seeing it at a future event!
I would go for the normal windows- plasic scratches very easily & it will surely do your head in having a square inch of window on a road car! & I for one would want normal windows to wind down for screaming V8 aural pornography in tunnels etc 
Harnesses (the missis might not like em though) alcantara seats, the stripe is so daftly expensive I hope you dont get it out of principle (any quality body shop could do it for much much much less)
See how restrictive you find the cage, door bars can be very very annoying in every day use and you may find you flash too much to the outside world when you wear a skirt
Harnesses (the missis might not like em though) alcantara seats, the stripe is so daftly expensive I hope you dont get it out of principle (any quality body shop could do it for much much much less)
See how restrictive you find the cage, door bars can be very very annoying in every day use and you may find you flash too much to the outside world when you wear a skirt
Provisional spec:
Normal winder Windows.
4 point Harness.
Roll Bar.
Stripe.
Fire Extinguisher.
Leather Seats.
DAZ
Edited to say get the normal winder windows. I'm guessing it'll probably be easier to switch to the Lexan Windows at a later date if you want to.
>> Edited by dazren on Tuesday 24th June 09:10
Normal winder Windows.
4 point Harness.
Roll Bar.
Stripe.
Fire Extinguisher.
Leather Seats.
DAZ
Edited to say get the normal winder windows. I'm guessing it'll probably be easier to switch to the Lexan Windows at a later date if you want to.
>> Edited by dazren on Tuesday 24th June 09:10
Can I play? Its the closest I'll get to specifying one at the moment.....
Options to include:
4 point harness
road legal aluminium roll bar
Leather headlining
coloured stitching
Leather on rear shelf & door sill mouldings
Fire extinguisher
Don't go for the plastic windows, stripe or coloured dash/wheel. Certainly not the dedication plate. And sat nav - FFS you won't want to know where you're going, just drive until you get there.
If it were me I'd have nero outside and in, with as much leather as possible (rosso stitching): ultra classy.
However, it is patently NOT me, so enjoy the whole process and whatever you have delivered will be gobsmackingly brilliant.
Options to include:
4 point harness
road legal aluminium roll bar
Leather headlining
coloured stitching
Leather on rear shelf & door sill mouldings
Fire extinguisher
Don't go for the plastic windows, stripe or coloured dash/wheel. Certainly not the dedication plate. And sat nav - FFS you won't want to know where you're going, just drive until you get there.
If it were me I'd have nero outside and in, with as much leather as possible (rosso stitching): ultra classy.
However, it is patently NOT me, so enjoy the whole process and whatever you have delivered will be gobsmackingly brilliant.
Have fun with the specifying Kev, I'd go or the most full on stripped out version possible.................sadly for me I'm leaving the fold for a short (hopefully) whilst concentrating on other things (school) so although it's been a tough decision the 360 is up for sale at a dealer at the moment 
OK, here are the domster anti-cupholder pro-badger spec options:
Sliding Lexan windows- damn right, unless the glass is as thin as an after eight mint.
4 point harness- definitely, at least on drivers side. Make sure it's six point and detachable, so you can use the normall inertia reel most of the time
road legal aluminium roll bar- £1,703.75 - for safety's sake get one of these - poor Jens and Amar were involved in a roll in a 360 and although 'what iffing' never helps, I think a roll bar is very sensible in any performance car
Three colour racing stripe- £3,642.50 - tacky and a complete waste of money. See your nearest pizza takeout box for the design.
coloured dash- £411.25 - errrr, why?
coloured steering wheel- £211.50 - c'mon Kev, those buggers can simply sniff your money. Black alcantara or leather doesn't show dirt and doesn't reflect in the screen and it looks OK.
Leather headlining- £235.00 - extra weight, no good reason for it, surprisingly cheap though.
coloured stitching- £152.75 - I'd go for this, in red or orange or whatever the outside is
dedication plate- £211.50 - dunno what this is. Sounds like a potential waste of money.
Leather on rear shelf & door sill mouldings- £1,151.50 - extra weight and expense. Maybe if it looked really good in the flesh.
Sat nav- £1,527.50 - could be handy, but if you aren't going for the 6CD then why load it with toys?
Fire extinguisher- £340.75 - again, yes, on safety grounds
PS Then one I've seen in black looked sodding marvellous. Please reconsider this colour, or maybe that nice dark metallic blue they do.
Sliding Lexan windows- damn right, unless the glass is as thin as an after eight mint.
4 point harness- definitely, at least on drivers side. Make sure it's six point and detachable, so you can use the normall inertia reel most of the time
road legal aluminium roll bar- £1,703.75 - for safety's sake get one of these - poor Jens and Amar were involved in a roll in a 360 and although 'what iffing' never helps, I think a roll bar is very sensible in any performance car
Three colour racing stripe- £3,642.50 - tacky and a complete waste of money. See your nearest pizza takeout box for the design.
coloured dash- £411.25 - errrr, why?
coloured steering wheel- £211.50 - c'mon Kev, those buggers can simply sniff your money. Black alcantara or leather doesn't show dirt and doesn't reflect in the screen and it looks OK.
Leather headlining- £235.00 - extra weight, no good reason for it, surprisingly cheap though.
coloured stitching- £152.75 - I'd go for this, in red or orange or whatever the outside is
dedication plate- £211.50 - dunno what this is. Sounds like a potential waste of money.
Leather on rear shelf & door sill mouldings- £1,151.50 - extra weight and expense. Maybe if it looked really good in the flesh.
Sat nav- £1,527.50 - could be handy, but if you aren't going for the 6CD then why load it with toys?
Fire extinguisher- £340.75 - again, yes, on safety grounds
PS Then one I've seen in black looked sodding marvellous. Please reconsider this colour, or maybe that nice dark metallic blue they do.
Sliding Lexan windows.
4 point harness.
road legal aluminium roll bar
fire extiguisher.
I believe the roll-cage is as per the 550 WSR Edition so it's not going to get in the way.
(The merits/de-merits) of the specifying the stripe require another thread.... So I'll leave that for now.
Sack the rest.
From what I know, most Stradale owners will be coming from a 360/other Ferrari already - this will not be peoples "First Ferrari" - on that basis people will want it to be as different to a normal 360 as is possible. A radical spec, *IMO* will be the norm and crucially *for someone who has already owned a 360*, it will deliver the greatest bang per buck...
I have it on very good authority that the Stradales coming to the UK will NOT be as fantastically noisy as the videos you have seen.....
Edited to say - there can only be 1 colour combo: ROSSO - NERO.
>> Edited by manu on Tuesday 24th June 11:44
>> Edited by manu on Tuesday 24th June 11:45
4 point harness.
road legal aluminium roll bar
fire extiguisher.
I believe the roll-cage is as per the 550 WSR Edition so it's not going to get in the way.
(The merits/de-merits) of the specifying the stripe require another thread.... So I'll leave that for now.
Sack the rest.
From what I know, most Stradale owners will be coming from a 360/other Ferrari already - this will not be peoples "First Ferrari" - on that basis people will want it to be as different to a normal 360 as is possible. A radical spec, *IMO* will be the norm and crucially *for someone who has already owned a 360*, it will deliver the greatest bang per buck...
I have it on very good authority that the Stradales coming to the UK will NOT be as fantastically noisy as the videos you have seen.....
Edited to say - there can only be 1 colour combo: ROSSO - NERO.
>> Edited by manu on Tuesday 24th June 11:44
>> Edited by manu on Tuesday 24th June 11:45
Sliding Lexan windows- no cost option NO. They don't look great but more importantly they scratch easily and then look crap, IMHO
4 point harness- no cost option yes
road legal aluminium roll bar- £1,703.75 I would, especially given that it is in keeping with the nature of the car, as long as it doesn't inhibit entry/exit
Three colour racing stripe- £3,642.50 still not sure of this!! I'd say no, because in some pictures it looks kinda silly. But then again... I'd have to no.
coloured dash- £411.25 b
coloured steering wheel- £211.50 No
Leather headlining- £235.00 for some reason I would
coloured stitching- £152.75 yes. black with red stitching
dedication plate- £211.50 NO! Don't these just say Ferrari winners blah blah blah or some similar crap?
Leather on rear shelf & door sill mouldings- £1,151.50 No
Sat nav- £1,527.50 I would have went for the CD thing but you wouldn't even get that!! so this is a big no no
Fire extinguisher- £340.75 Looks cool, makes the car look "dangerous"
and could come in handy (God forbid)
Colours: Rosso with black interior, red carpets. Probably say leather (with red stitching)?
This thing is gonna be fun, looking forward to it.
4 point harness- no cost option yes
road legal aluminium roll bar- £1,703.75 I would, especially given that it is in keeping with the nature of the car, as long as it doesn't inhibit entry/exit
Three colour racing stripe- £3,642.50 still not sure of this!! I'd say no, because in some pictures it looks kinda silly. But then again... I'd have to no.
coloured dash- £411.25 b
coloured steering wheel- £211.50 No
Leather headlining- £235.00 for some reason I would
coloured stitching- £152.75 yes. black with red stitching
dedication plate- £211.50 NO! Don't these just say Ferrari winners blah blah blah or some similar crap?
Leather on rear shelf & door sill mouldings- £1,151.50 No
Sat nav- £1,527.50 I would have went for the CD thing but you wouldn't even get that!! so this is a big no no
Fire extinguisher- £340.75 Looks cool, makes the car look "dangerous"
and could come in handy (God forbid) Colours: Rosso with black interior, red carpets. Probably say leather (with red stitching)?
This thing is gonna be fun, looking forward to it.
Having read another thread where you posted Kev, I'd probably have gone for the 288GTO option you mentioned as not being overly dissimilar price wise. But then again I'm too tall...I'd almost be prepared to have my legs shortened if I could afford one!
My gut tells me it'd be more exciting and a better "value" (if mentioning that word in conjunction with the F word is not an oxymoron) prospect long term. And it's soooo much better looking.
However...
Coming from the Caterham fold, my views on your options list are as follows. It's a road legal race car, and as such less is much more.
Sliding Lexan windows- YES. Weight saving and "authenticity. Scratches are a fair point, but they can be polished out. And how many miles will the car be doing anyway...
4 point harness- YES, DEFINITELY. Any car with serious pretensions, especially one that'll be used on the track, ought to have them.
road legal aluminium roll bar- £1,703.75. Depends whether it's for show, or actually provides some safety and/or stiffening functioning. If it does, then yes.
Three colour racing stripe- £3,642.50. Categoric NO. Looks sh*te IMO. One of those items that Ferarri evidently think it's wise to charge the earth for, even if it's something so utterly useless/pointless.
coloured dash- £411.25. NO. See above. Isn't the interior cf? Would this colouring be paint/some other material? Extra weight.
coloured steering wheel- £211.50. NO. I saw a lovely MkII Astra with a blue/red/yellow/green steering wheel cover the other day. A few quid at Halfords will sort this if you regret not doing it...
Leather headlining- £235.00. NO. Weight, no point.
coloured stitching- £152.75. If the interior's all black, MAYBE. It doesn't add weight and isn't a ludicrous amount.
dedication plate- £211.50. NO. Everyone knows what it is, and the chassis number will tell anyone all they need to know.
Leather on rear shelf & door sill mouldings- £1,151.50. NO.
Sat nav- £1,527.50. NO.
Fire extinguisher- £340.75. DEFINITELY.
Leather or Alcantara - ALCANTARA. Grippier than a grippy thing in grippy week, feels nice, doesn't burn your legs in summer and looks like it belongs in a race car.
Having said all that, I could possibly be tempted to install a stereo of some descrption (so call me a hypocrite ). I have a Sony hard disk based unit. Superb, lighter than a head unit/auto changer affair and stores 200+hrs of tunes, plus has a radio with RDS and CD. Looks the nuts too, and can store other data if you want it too (and have a memory stick to transfer it). .
I really like the 360 in the dark metallic blue they do. Black would also look pretty awesome.
Edited to say that if I could find some dayglo green sticky backed plastic (or a decent sign writer with a pot of Humbrol), a "racing stripe" in that colour on a dark blue car might look quite fetching.
>> Edited by murph7355 on Tuesday 24th June 13:34
My gut tells me it'd be more exciting and a better "value" (if mentioning that word in conjunction with the F word is not an oxymoron) prospect long term. And it's soooo much better looking.
However...
Coming from the Caterham fold, my views on your options list are as follows. It's a road legal race car, and as such less is much more.
Sliding Lexan windows- YES. Weight saving and "authenticity. Scratches are a fair point, but they can be polished out. And how many miles will the car be doing anyway...
4 point harness- YES, DEFINITELY. Any car with serious pretensions, especially one that'll be used on the track, ought to have them.
road legal aluminium roll bar- £1,703.75. Depends whether it's for show, or actually provides some safety and/or stiffening functioning. If it does, then yes.
Three colour racing stripe- £3,642.50. Categoric NO. Looks sh*te IMO. One of those items that Ferarri evidently think it's wise to charge the earth for, even if it's something so utterly useless/pointless.
coloured dash- £411.25. NO. See above. Isn't the interior cf? Would this colouring be paint/some other material? Extra weight.
coloured steering wheel- £211.50. NO. I saw a lovely MkII Astra with a blue/red/yellow/green steering wheel cover the other day. A few quid at Halfords will sort this if you regret not doing it...
Leather headlining- £235.00. NO. Weight, no point.
coloured stitching- £152.75. If the interior's all black, MAYBE. It doesn't add weight and isn't a ludicrous amount.
dedication plate- £211.50. NO. Everyone knows what it is, and the chassis number will tell anyone all they need to know.
Leather on rear shelf & door sill mouldings- £1,151.50. NO.
Sat nav- £1,527.50. NO.
Fire extinguisher- £340.75. DEFINITELY.
Leather or Alcantara - ALCANTARA. Grippier than a grippy thing in grippy week, feels nice, doesn't burn your legs in summer and looks like it belongs in a race car.
Having said all that, I could possibly be tempted to install a stereo of some descrption (so call me a hypocrite
). I have a Sony hard disk based unit. Superb, lighter than a head unit/auto changer affair and stores 200+hrs of tunes, plus has a radio with RDS and CD. Looks the nuts too, and can store other data if you want it too (and have a memory stick to transfer it). . I really like the 360 in the dark metallic blue they do. Black would also look pretty awesome.
Edited to say that if I could find some dayglo green sticky backed plastic (or a decent sign writer with a pot of Humbrol), a "racing stripe" in that colour on a dark blue car might look quite fetching.
>> Edited by murph7355 on Tuesday 24th June 13:34
Nice one Kev!
Sliding Lexan windows
4 point harness
road legal aluminium roll bar
coloured dash
coloured steering wheel
Leather headlining
coloured stitching
dedication plate
Leather on rear shelf & door sill mouldings
Sat nav
Fire extinguisher
Three colour racing stripe - (and if you are determined to have one, you could get one done a lot cheaper elsewhere.)
All IMO, but then the choice is yours
Sliding Lexan windows
4 point harness
road legal aluminium roll bar
coloured dash
coloured steering wheel
Leather headlining
coloured stitching
dedication plate
Leather on rear shelf & door sill mouldings
Sat nav
Fire extinguisher
Three colour racing stripe -
(and if you are determined to have one, you could get one done a lot cheaper elsewhere.) All IMO, but then the choice is yours
Sliding Lexan windows Only there to hint at the F40, leave the winders.
4 point harness Well worth it if lots of track work envisaged and maybe even if not, I'd go for it as long as its comfortable.
road legal aluminium roll bar Yup, any safety improvement feature must be worthwhile on a car like this.
Three colour racing stripe - £3,642.50
Think I'll get into the sports stripe business! Sorry, but a definate no-no, looks aftermarket and cheap, and why upset the lovely clean lines? I think the subtle styling tweaks look fabulous, and are enough to differentiate from standard 360's without the stripe (besides, how long will it be before we see standard 360's with Stradale stripes appended?)
coloured dash - No need. And £411.25 for what exactly? Is red dye dearer than black?
coloured steering wheel - As above
Leather headlining - No need, purist car surely means purist interior. Any appendage's unnecessary.
coloured stitching - Red stitching on black. Nice
dedication plate - Bling, bling, etc. Er, no.
Leather on rear shelf & door sill mouldings - As per headlining. Not as hard wearing as alcantara?
Sat nav - Presumably you'd take the 456 for Euro-jaunts...
Fire extinguisher - Of course, its a performance car.
Ferrari F1 red / black leather interior. Simple, classic, should be OK for resale - cant imagine a prospective Stradale buyer looking for 'luxury' items, so colour choice will probably be the biggest factor. I'd see air-con as the only essential option (I presume this is standard?). Happy driving Kevin, I'm determined to get a ride in this baby when she arrives
4 point harness Well worth it if lots of track work envisaged and maybe even if not, I'd go for it as long as its comfortable.
road legal aluminium roll bar Yup, any safety improvement feature must be worthwhile on a car like this.
Three colour racing stripe - £3,642.50
Think I'll get into the sports stripe business! Sorry, but a definate no-no, looks aftermarket and cheap, and why upset the lovely clean lines? I think the subtle styling tweaks look fabulous, and are enough to differentiate from standard 360's without the stripe (besides, how long will it be before we see standard 360's with Stradale stripes appended?) coloured dash - No need. And £411.25 for what exactly? Is red dye dearer than black?
coloured steering wheel - As above
Leather headlining - No need, purist car surely means purist interior. Any appendage's unnecessary.
coloured stitching - Red stitching on black. Nice
dedication plate - Bling, bling, etc. Er, no.
Leather on rear shelf & door sill mouldings - As per headlining. Not as hard wearing as alcantara?
Sat nav -
Presumably you'd take the 456 for Euro-jaunts... Fire extinguisher - Of course, its a performance car.
Ferrari F1 red / black leather interior. Simple, classic, should be OK for resale - cant imagine a prospective Stradale buyer looking for 'luxury' items, so colour choice will probably be the biggest factor. I'd see air-con as the only essential option (I presume this is standard?). Happy driving Kevin, I'm determined to get a ride in this baby when she arrives
i wonder if anyone on here knows if its true,but i thought aluminium roll cages were outlawed by the FIA,even individual homologated ones?Also,what is implied by the term road legal in this case?Are there illegal cages in road use?Most curious,did'nt mean to intrude on the original topic......beautiful car full stop 
Any spec would be great!
Any spec would be great!Excellent replies! You can see a concensus in that definites are:
1) roll bar: I agree
2) Fire extinguisher: I agree
3) No dedication plate: I agree
4) Stripe polarises opinion like nothing else! Currently a 'no'.
5) Lexan windows probably a 'no', since I think they'd bug you after a bit cos you can't open them (apart from the letter box).
6) Stitching yes: I agree
7) Harnesses yes: I agree
Other options are a maybe. If this car isn't loud from the factory, it bloody well will be when I'm done with it. Manuuuuu... Fear not, I'll be doing tours of duty in it at future PH meets.
When I was considering this car, I had a long chat with Manu & Ajay about it, versus the 288GTO and F40. Thing is, I want to *drive* it, not look at it. Mileage kills the value of these cars, and there's simply too much wonga tied up in it to ignore. And you know we get a lot of posts on running costs of 308, 328, etc., well I suspect the F40 is in another league altogether. A bumper scrape on a current Ferrari costs at most a few hundred quid to fix since it's fibreglass. I'm told the bumper on an F40 is carbon fibre, which is tough to repair, and £10k to replace. I'd be scared to drive it. Challenge Stradale it is.
Edited to add sorry to hear you're selling your 360 Charlie- I know EXACTLY how that feels and it's a total pisser. The bright side is...
>> Edited by 456mgt on Wednesday 25th June 06:10
1) roll bar: I agree
2) Fire extinguisher: I agree
3) No dedication plate: I agree
4) Stripe polarises opinion like nothing else! Currently a 'no'.
5) Lexan windows probably a 'no', since I think they'd bug you after a bit cos you can't open them (apart from the letter box).
6) Stitching yes: I agree
7) Harnesses yes: I agree
Other options are a maybe. If this car isn't loud from the factory, it bloody well will be when I'm done with it. Manuuuuu... Fear not, I'll be doing tours of duty in it at future PH meets.
When I was considering this car, I had a long chat with Manu & Ajay about it, versus the 288GTO and F40. Thing is, I want to *drive* it, not look at it. Mileage kills the value of these cars, and there's simply too much wonga tied up in it to ignore. And you know we get a lot of posts on running costs of 308, 328, etc., well I suspect the F40 is in another league altogether. A bumper scrape on a current Ferrari costs at most a few hundred quid to fix since it's fibreglass. I'm told the bumper on an F40 is carbon fibre, which is tough to repair, and £10k to replace. I'd be scared to drive it. Challenge Stradale it is.
Edited to add sorry to hear you're selling your 360 Charlie- I know EXACTLY how that feels and it's a total pisser. The bright side is...
>> Edited by 456mgt on Wednesday 25th June 06:10
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