Discussion
clubsport said:
Interesting reponse 456,,,You guys certainly know better than I,but I thought I heard tales of "Mini" clutch/friction plates failing in F1 systems at fairly low mileages,,,was that just a scare story?
These aren't scare stories since I've heard it first hand from owners. Apparently, accelerated wear on an F1 clutch (600 miles is the lowest I've heard of) is due to:
1) Riding the clutch ie foot on brake but nowhere to go, and car is still in gear.
2) Clutch settings are out
According to Karl Verdi, and rather forcefully, you should be able to get 12K miles out of one; any less and one of the two reasons above is responsible. I'm not a fan of F1 systems so far and remain to be convinced. I could be convinced, I'm just not convinced yet.
dazren said:
Has the new car got a Fred Flintsone style reverse system?
DAZ
What's that? Stick your feet through the floor and run backwards?
If manual were an option we wouldn't be having this discussion. The one (theoretical) redeeming feature is this 'launch control' thing. With this, I reckon I may have a chance of staying with Das Turbo. At least for the first 20 yards.... 6k miles is the average life of an F1 clutch plate, 12k for a manual. The difference is caused by the F1 system riding the clutch when crawling i.e. in slow traffic or harsh use under sport mode. I had a 355F1 for 4 weeks before the pump went. After an £8000 warranty repair I couldn't get rid of it fast enough...
A couple of years ago I had a visit to a high end paintshop and they had a 1998 355 F1 in there for fairly major repairs.
Apparently the owner was sitting at the head queue on a red traffic light,,next thing he knows the F1 takes off on it's own ,,,smack! straight into the bus doing a right turn.
I guess this is launch un-control. The insurance company repaired rather than wrote the car off,the owner sold it without ever driving it again.
Apparently the owner was sitting at the head queue on a red traffic light,,next thing he knows the F1 takes off on it's own ,,,smack! straight into the bus doing a right turn.
I guess this is launch un-control. The insurance company repaired rather than wrote the car off,the owner sold it without ever driving it again.
As I’ve owned an F1 355 for 18 months & abut 8000 miles I thought it might be useful to express my experience.
The car was supplied with a clutch that was about 1000 miles old. In the time I’ve had the car operation has been perfect, not a single problem. That is true of the entire car. I’ve haven’t even changed a light bulb. It just starts, runs beautifully and then sits ready for the next time.
The clutch engagement is as good now as when I first got the car. Even if it does need changing at 12K, it’s a very easy job, & cheap compared to other “performance cars”
There is a lot of talk about F1 and its inadequacies, in my experience from people who have not owned or even driven cars for any length of time. It does have its idiosyncrasies, but once you learn how to drive the car it works very well. Journalists like to knock the system as they all like to think they can change gear perfectly in 100 millisec’s every time. Jeremy Clarkson criticises it on the TV, it becomes pub talk & everyone’s an expert.
I’m thankful that companies like Ferrari are willing to develop new technology, suffer criticism & continue to develop knowing it will be copied by the competition.
Have fun.
A happy F1 owner
The car was supplied with a clutch that was about 1000 miles old. In the time I’ve had the car operation has been perfect, not a single problem. That is true of the entire car. I’ve haven’t even changed a light bulb. It just starts, runs beautifully and then sits ready for the next time.
The clutch engagement is as good now as when I first got the car. Even if it does need changing at 12K, it’s a very easy job, & cheap compared to other “performance cars”
There is a lot of talk about F1 and its inadequacies, in my experience from people who have not owned or even driven cars for any length of time. It does have its idiosyncrasies, but once you learn how to drive the car it works very well. Journalists like to knock the system as they all like to think they can change gear perfectly in 100 millisec’s every time. Jeremy Clarkson criticises it on the TV, it becomes pub talk & everyone’s an expert.
I’m thankful that companies like Ferrari are willing to develop new technology, suffer criticism & continue to develop knowing it will be copied by the competition.
Have fun.
A happy F1 owner
how much is "cheap" for the clutch change?
And why is 12k considered the norm for a manual 355 clutch, when my 450bhp Vantage can manage 50k miles++ on one? And replacement is 750 pounds for a complete new clutch pack including flywheel, and 750 pounds of labour.
And how can you consider cam belts every 6k miles (average 2k miles per year) to be reasonable? This is a grand a year tax on every ferrari owner. Surely this is not good engineering, when there are perfectly good alternatives (chain drives etc) which last vastly longer?
(just being devils advocate)
>> Edited by jhoneyball on Friday 20th June 17:32
>> Edited by jhoneyball on Friday 20th June 17:32
>> Edited by jhoneyball on Friday 20th June 17:35
And why is 12k considered the norm for a manual 355 clutch, when my 450bhp Vantage can manage 50k miles++ on one? And replacement is 750 pounds for a complete new clutch pack including flywheel, and 750 pounds of labour.
And how can you consider cam belts every 6k miles (average 2k miles per year) to be reasonable? This is a grand a year tax on every ferrari owner. Surely this is not good engineering, when there are perfectly good alternatives (chain drives etc) which last vastly longer?
(just being devils advocate)
>> Edited by jhoneyball on Friday 20th June 17:32
>> Edited by jhoneyball on Friday 20th June 17:32
>> Edited by jhoneyball on Friday 20th June 17:35
jhoneyball,
I think some 355s manage to get more than 12K on their clutches, as you'll know, it very much depends on your driving style. The 355 is a seriously under torqued beast low down in the rev range, and many owners might be tempted to smoke the clutch in exchange for not being too embarassed by that Micra going for your gap
.
I've heard about people getting 40k out of a Diablo clutch, others getting less than 80 yards. Very much depends on who you are talking to. Karl (sp?) Verdi makes a good case for them, and argues that many times the Ferrari dealers don't set them up right, this is something I can very easily believe.
Comparatively the 355 clutch is pretty easy and cheap to change, Verdi's charge something in the region of £600 all in, so its not too bad. I paid more than that for my Calibra Turbo, and that was one piece of shit car...
The cambelt thing is a bit of an arse, probably a way for Ferrari to ensure their dealers get some regular income. To be honest, if that's what keeps them happy but ensures the cars run properly all the time, then so be it. Nothing this side of an F50 sounds like it.
I'm not an engineer so can't argue the pro's/con's of either/any setup. What I do know is it doesn't cost 3 grand to do. Nor do most Ferrari owners that I know drive their cars only 2K miles per annum. There is one plus point for Ferrari in that they have an annual service if you don't make the 12K intervals. This is comparatively cheap at circa £500. Whether it is simply a glorified oil service or not, I can't comment.
I think some 355s manage to get more than 12K on their clutches, as you'll know, it very much depends on your driving style. The 355 is a seriously under torqued beast low down in the rev range, and many owners might be tempted to smoke the clutch in exchange for not being too embarassed by that Micra going for your gap
. I've heard about people getting 40k out of a Diablo clutch, others getting less than 80 yards. Very much depends on who you are talking to. Karl (sp?) Verdi makes a good case for them, and argues that many times the Ferrari dealers don't set them up right, this is something I can very easily believe.
Comparatively the 355 clutch is pretty easy and cheap to change, Verdi's charge something in the region of £600 all in, so its not too bad. I paid more than that for my Calibra Turbo, and that was one piece of shit car...
The cambelt thing is a bit of an arse, probably a way for Ferrari to ensure their dealers get some regular income. To be honest, if that's what keeps them happy but ensures the cars run properly all the time, then so be it. Nothing this side of an F50 sounds like it.
I'm not an engineer so can't argue the pro's/con's of either/any setup. What I do know is it doesn't cost 3 grand to do. Nor do most Ferrari owners that I know drive their cars only 2K miles per annum. There is one plus point for Ferrari in that they have an annual service if you don't make the 12K intervals. This is comparatively cheap at circa £500. Whether it is simply a glorified oil service or not, I can't comment.
360N-GT said:
Don't take it personally, but your Aston is a fat truck, with truck componentry.
It is not designed to rev to 8500rpm and change gear in 100 milliseconds!...That's why it lasts so long.
Just for a laugh, try revving it past 6000rpm......
Horses for courses.
Phil,
You're not suggesting the AMs a dinosaur
I drove a DBS V8 when a boy and found it a large car with heavy controls but loved the sound and prescence of the car. Damaged the grille when some dopey git rolled back into it so not very fond memories I'm afraid.
Ferraris are sports cars (except for the 512BB
) just digging, your's is beautiful
Gassing Station | Supercar General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff