News on From Emerald Re: Group Buy!!

[thenick]

Hi all, after a little time and prompting, here is the email I received from Emerald today:

[Email]

Nick,

Here is the price for our kit finally. It took a while to get quotes for bulk orders of various parts in...



- ECU (K3 model) inlcuding PC serial coms lead, operator's manual, software & maps

- Flying loom - ecu plug with all wires attached, open ends for sensor plugs.

- Trigger wheel kit - consisting of:

crank sensor & connector

x2 sets coil packs & connectors

x2 sets 4 HT leads

twin coil pack bracket

crank sensor bracket

V8 trigger wheel & spacer kit - 6 hole pulleys



- Wideband Lambda sensor

- RR session

- shipping


Emerald total kit price at retail = £1568.57 including VAT
Group buy total kit price = £1333.29 including VAT if there are 10 or more orders. If it works out to be fewer people we can adjust the price a little but still give a reasonable discount.

Price for kit variations will, obviously, be slightly different which will have be worked out when we have the exact details of each order. Brochure & price list is attached so people can add any optional extras they need to their order order. Anyone with a USB port will also need an adapter (from us -18.99+vat). It is essential to use one with the 'FTDI' chip to avoid data corruption. These can also be bought from www.easysync.co.uk

[/Email]


So what does everyone think? It seems to be a reasonable price considering it includes loom and RR session so could I please have a list of those interested in continuing with the order (this trig wheel deal etc is for the RV8 engine only so those looking for different spec will have to discuss with Dave or Leoni at Emerald when the buy is started).


1. thenick

[V8 GRF]

Any chance of providing a link to the brochure and price list referred to in the email?

[bigrumbly]

Not for me thanks.
David Bishop

[That Daddy]

No thanks Nick,my minds made up(when i do decide to go aftermarket ECU),im going Megasquirt,cant justify that kind of expense.

[eliot]

That Daddy said:

No thanks Nick,my minds made up(when i do decide to go aftermarket ECU),im going Megasquirt,cant justify that kind of expense.

Ouch..

[TVRleigh(BBWR)]

I also would like a break down of price,
As its a bit more expensive than I expected.

[Graham]

eliot said:

That Daddy said:

No thanks Nick,my minds made up(when i do decide to go aftermarket ECU),im going Megasquirt,cant justify that kind of expense.

Ouch..

TO be fair there is a lot more in that list than just the ECU. which probably makes up about 500 quid of the price. all the other kit you would need mega squirt or not.


from memory it would be something like this :-


ecu = 580
custom loom = 350
lamda = 150
coil packs = 100
crank sensor/trigger wheel = 150
ht leads = 80
r/road session = 275


Now you can hack an old rv8 engine bay loom fairly easily, you can run without the lamba ( although you may need it if running cats or mot) coil packs you can try e-bay, crank sensor, this is key you can do cheaper bodges, but I'd use the JE kit. HT lead well they are consumables, and your going to have to have it mapped somewhere...

to do the same job with replacing the emerald ecu with a mega squirt you'd save what maybe 2-300 quid, which is what your getting by buying the lot as a kit.

So its a good deal for everything your getting, but it does look quite harsh all there in one big list. what does a r/r session and a remap on the lucas cost 500 quid? going to something like emerald/mega squirt makes sense if you are going to fiddle about and change things. a remapped lucas may be the way if you are doing just the one upgrade and then leaving it. but you will get better results with control over sparks and fuel.

[thenick]

Not sure how to add a pdf file on here, so to make it easier, send me an email and i'll forward the brochure and manual to anyone who wants it...

It is expensive when viewed in one big chunk as Graham said, but there is quite a lot in there for the money. Don't forget that this is a full replacement of the entire ECU system with all new parts and a custom loom and full RR session which will add 3 fuel maps for your car for any driving style you like. I am going down this route as I intend to use the ability to remap the car very easily when I add more bits. It also gives a whole host of general improvements and will be a great aid when I supercharge the car in the future.

It is a lot of money, so if its not what you're looking for then thats no problem!

[TVRleigh(BBWR)]

Graham said:

from memory it would be something like this :-

ecu = 580
custom loom = 350
lamda = 150
coil packs = 100
crank sensor/trigger wheel = 150
ht leads = 80
r/road session = 275

A few questions.
What if already have good MAGNECOR KV80 Leads and coil packs.
You can make you own loom 350 seems a bit expensive.
Is the Lambda sensor a wide band one.

Also could we not book the RR once we have it set-up and pay then, as I don't know when the car and engine will be ready it could take 6 months.

It would have been better to get a price for multiple ECU, and leave the extra parts for people to sort out thereself, as not everyone is going to want all the parts.

[thenick]

Yes they are wideband lamda sensors and controllers to match. The reason I had it priced as a package is because most people I spoke to wanted just that: a package with all the bits required for RV8 application. I will have a word with Dave and see if he can break it down a bit more for a 'lite' package without RR and leads... I'm in Greece at the moment though so can't get to a computer very much but bare with me!

[TVRleigh(BBWR)]

Ok no problem,

Thanks for the quick reply.

I joined late so was not totally aware of what was asked for.

Leigh

[Slatter]

Im still interested

Can you send the pdf file to me ill pm you my addy ta
Thanks

Slatter

Edited by Slatter on Wednesday 12th September 19:31

[eliot]

FWIW,
Ive only tried it once on an intermediate front damper - but it was very easy to mount a £20 oem ford 36-1 trigger wheel on it.

[Pupp]

eliot said:

FWIW,
Ive only tried it once on an intermediate front damper - but it was very easy to mount a £20 oem ford 36-1 trigger wheel on it.

Looks a neat solution but must admit I'm dead queasy about messing with the crank nose due to the various horror stories about failures.

On the group buy, still dead interested but wasn't anticipating such a 'full' package (no criticism at all, top marks for pulling it together... must be a nightmare trying to think through the permutations)...my Qs are:

What are the coil packs (Ford?)
What trigger wheel and bracket is it (this still seems surprisingly fraught)?
Is the RR session absolutely necesary to get up and running or is there scope (with a wide-band O2 sensor) to map on the fly from a generic base set up?
How is idle controlled?

[wildcard500]

Hi Nick,

Count me in too.

-- James

[K4000JB]

Quote
Flying loom - ecu plug with all wires attached, open ends for sensor plugs.

if this is as read it you will have to make the loom up he is just supplying the ecu plug with all the wires attached.though i may be reading it wrong
just for a comparison i have recently fitted an omex ecu and did all the work myself costs were approx as follows

ecu £850+vat
loom £70(which was as described above)+vat
trigger wheel and sensor mount and sensor £100
p38 coil packs and fuelrail(as the coilpacks wont fit behind the plenum without the correct fuel rail in my experience)£50+p&p second hand
connector, sleeving and other electric bits and pieces £100
innovate lc1 lambda sensor £150+vat

approx total £1507.25

like i said i carried out all the work myself all that is needed now is a rolling road session which is £55-£70


hope this helps
ant

edited to add if anyone wants me to answer any questions mail me i will be glad to help if i can

Edited by K4000JB on Thursday 13th September 19:35

[dnb]

Pupp said:

Is the RR session absolutely necesary to get up and running or is there scope (with a wide-band O2 sensor) to map on the fly from a generic base set up?
How is idle controlled?

I'd guess idle is controlled by scattering the igntion timing. This works well on my VEMS.

There's plenty of scope to get a car up and running on the road with just a wideband and a laptop operator.

However, you'll struggle to get the full performance out of the car until you have a bit of RR time - it's very difficult for instance to set up ignition timing sensibly without the aid of a RR given you are aiming for the point of minimum best timing, not the point of knock. My view is that the RR session would be best used after the car drives well on the road.

[Pupp]

dnb said:

Pupp said:

Is the RR session absolutely necesary to get up and running or is there scope (with a wide-band O2 sensor) to map on the fly from a generic base set up?

My view is that the RR session would be best used after the car drives well on the road.

That's what I was getting at really, and confirms my initial thoughts

[rev-erend]

dnb said:

Pupp said:

Is the RR session absolutely necesary to get up and running or is there scope (with a wide-band O2 sensor) to map on the fly from a generic base set up?
How is idle controlled?

I'd guess idle is controlled by scattering the igntion timing. This works well on my VEMS.

There's plenty of scope to get a car up and running on the road with just a wideband and a laptop operator.

However, you'll struggle to get the full performance out of the car until you have a bit of RR time - it's very difficult for instance to set up ignition timing sensibly without the aid of a RR given you are aiming for the point of minimum best timing, not the point of knock. My view is that the RR session would be best used after the car drives well on the road.

One of the good points with Emerald - is that they supply a 'good fit' base map - so in theory everything should be close in the first place..

But maybe in a group buy you loose this 'tailored' feature.

The loom price is not cheap but it's not made by Emerald but by a chap called Paul Dove.

[thenick]

I'll ask Dave what makes they've chosen for the coils etc...

The RR is not essential, but it is very useful. Dave will ask you for your current setup when supplying the base map with the ECU. This will run probably fairly well but the K3 system used here has a switch so you can have 3 maps selectable. The RR session will map all 3 and make sure they are tailored for optimum performance from your engine. For example, I am going to have an all out performance map, a super economy motorway cruising map and a compromise for normal driving. You can have even more stored on a laptop or similar to be uploaded later such as a MOT passing map (mines a decat!) and a flames map

You can also arrange to have the RR session done elsewhere so it is a fairly flexible system. The idle is controlled by altering the timing around the idle point so it naturally stays put (something about advancing just before and retarding just after I think). This apparently works very well but if you prefer, the ECU can control a stepper motor... but not the one installed unfortunatley - a Ford unit will be required but it is simple to source and intstall if needed.