Top Fuel 7000 BHP, how....
Discussion
do they know this?, it's not as if they can be taken down to the local Rolling Road.
Do they work the bhp out by how much Nitro is put in???? and how do they know what bhp it's making before adding any nitro???? because i'm sure R/Rs only go to 1200bhp?
Sorry, but at my age these things matter
Thanks
Do they work the bhp out by how much Nitro is put in???? and how do they know what bhp it's making before adding any nitro???? because i'm sure R/Rs only go to 1200bhp?
Sorry, but at my age these things matter
Thanks
Tony,
It sounds like your confusing "nitro" (ie: nitromethane - the fuel used in top fuel dragsters and funny cars) with "nitrous" (ie: nitrous oxide - used as to promote oxidising of another fuel). This is something which is often the case with the Max Power brigade who even at "media" level seem to not know the difference, hence the confusion has entered the mainstream. As such you don't "add" nitro to an already running engine in your terms. Nitro is the fuel, and ok its not that simple because there is the Methanol percentage to consider, but thats just complicating matters.
Unlike some little boys with a Corsa we are not talking about their supposed "180bhp motor" that they've added up in their head from all the bits they've stuck on, with a "75 shot" of nitrous oxide, purely based on how big the jets might possibly be, if they've got what they think they might have.
Although I believe that some fuel teams in the US now have a "dyno" capability in-house (DSR and Doug Herbert being among them), most of the figures quoted come from extrapolating the forces which are applied in order to perform the acceleration which we can measure. The Kalitta team in the US have also used load sensors (S.W.I.F.T. or Spinning Wheel Integrated Force Transducers) on the car in testing to measure the torque applied (which is all a dyno does), which showed that under heavy load at around the point of clutch lock-up the motor was making in the region of 10,000 horsepower.
It sounds like your confusing "nitro" (ie: nitromethane - the fuel used in top fuel dragsters and funny cars) with "nitrous" (ie: nitrous oxide - used as to promote oxidising of another fuel). This is something which is often the case with the Max Power brigade who even at "media" level seem to not know the difference, hence the confusion has entered the mainstream. As such you don't "add" nitro to an already running engine in your terms. Nitro is the fuel, and ok its not that simple because there is the Methanol percentage to consider, but thats just complicating matters.
Unlike some little boys with a Corsa we are not talking about their supposed "180bhp motor" that they've added up in their head from all the bits they've stuck on, with a "75 shot" of nitrous oxide, purely based on how big the jets might possibly be, if they've got what they think they might have.
Although I believe that some fuel teams in the US now have a "dyno" capability in-house (DSR and Doug Herbert being among them), most of the figures quoted come from extrapolating the forces which are applied in order to perform the acceleration which we can measure. The Kalitta team in the US have also used load sensors (S.W.I.F.T. or Spinning Wheel Integrated Force Transducers) on the car in testing to measure the torque applied (which is all a dyno does), which showed that under heavy load at around the point of clutch lock-up the motor was making in the region of 10,000 horsepower.
Edited by NitroMouse on Monday 13th August 15:50
This article gives some explanation of how horsepower can be caluclated for Top Fuel dragsters...
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa4078/is_20...
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa4078/is_20...
you couldnt dyno 7000hp. i remember reading an article while studying my engineering degree. apparently someone in the states recogned be could build a dyno for jet engines. the us government subsidised him and as a prototype he used a keith black motor which showed around the 2500hp mark then shook the dyno to bits....
This is from Al Booton, one of my American drag racing friends.
One of the cam companies (Crane I think) used to make a wheel type calculator that you could estimate the horsepower. Now l think there is computer software to do that.
There are some dyno's that can take a blown alcohol motor, because the guy l used to crew for had his engine on it. He came to the conclusion that he did not need to know the horsepower, it was just wearing out his big money parts.
l was over there a few weeks ago, when he was throwing out a $1,000 set of rods because the transmission had broken and instead of the 9,400 he shifts at, the engine had hit almost 10,000 and he was not using those rods again.
Jay Payne (Brad Anderson's son in law) shifts at over 10,000, but then he has Brad to get him more parts.
These are 526 cubic inch engines.
One of the cam companies (Crane I think) used to make a wheel type calculator that you could estimate the horsepower. Now l think there is computer software to do that.
There are some dyno's that can take a blown alcohol motor, because the guy l used to crew for had his engine on it. He came to the conclusion that he did not need to know the horsepower, it was just wearing out his big money parts.
l was over there a few weeks ago, when he was throwing out a $1,000 set of rods because the transmission had broken and instead of the 9,400 he shifts at, the engine had hit almost 10,000 and he was not using those rods again.
Jay Payne (Brad Anderson's son in law) shifts at over 10,000, but then he has Brad to get him more parts.
These are 526 cubic inch engines.
Torque arms (mounted to chassis from drivetrain with load cell attached) have been used by some NHRA teams for some time. Power available from blown Nitro engines is almost limitless. I believe 9840bhp & 8000+ lbs ft of torque were the figures given to me from one of the crew chiefs that was helping us with our T/F car.
dragsterworld said:
This article gives some explanation of how horsepower can be caluclated for Top Fuel dragsters...
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa4078/is_20...
Thank you young manhttp://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa4078/is_20...
P15TON said:
Torque arms (mounted to chassis from drivetrain with load cell attached) have been used by some NHRA teams for some time. Power available from blown Nitro engines is almost limitless. I believe 9840bhp & 8000+ lbs ft of torque were the figures given to me from one of the crew chiefs that was helping us with our T/F car.
Which would indicate that the peak power shown would be being made at around 6400-6500 rpm, somewhat under the 7500 - 8000 rpm usually quoted as the operating range of a fuel motor, and suggests that as I said before the peak output is reached as the clutch locks up and drags the motor down. Am I thinking along the right lines Peter?Edited by NitroMouse on Monday 13th August 18:15
From memory (it's a couple of years now, and I've been to bed since then) our motor used to go straight to 6000 at the hit, and make a nice straight pull up to a max of 7500. Some guys used to run to 8000, but it depends on the tune up.
When asked 'how much power' the best answer is 'as much as we like!'
When asked 'how much power' the best answer is 'as much as we like!'
This onboard dyno are cool!
http://www.land-and-sea.com/rotary-shaft-dyno/rota...
I remeber a article in National Dragster magazine when they tried this one on Bill Millers Top Fuel dragster and got very close to 10000 horsepower.
Blown promod cars shift close to 10 grand and get 15 to 25 runs on the rods depend on which brand they use.
http://www.land-and-sea.com/rotary-shaft-dyno/rota...
I remeber a article in National Dragster magazine when they tried this one on Bill Millers Top Fuel dragster and got very close to 10000 horsepower.
Blown promod cars shift close to 10 grand and get 15 to 25 runs on the rods depend on which brand they use.
AM said:
Vixpy, out of curiosity, what's the highest BHP you've measured on your rolling road, and what was it, etc ?
580 at the rear wheels (Capri.. yes, really!)580 at the wheels (4wd, Lancer EVO)
500 at the front wheels (civic type R)
As for then most powerful car at the crank, i would say a drag subaru with a drag auto box, the wheels figs where lower due to massive losses in the auto box, but i would say it was probably producing almost 800bhp on the dyno, without Nitrous.
I have a spreadsheet which calculates G-forces given the incrementals. It's not very reliable for the first 60 feet (because when the clocks start the car is not doing 0 mph, and I don't know how many mph it is doing) but it gets more accurate from there on in. Here is what it says when you feed it Brandon Bernstein's 3.109/273.88 mph at half track and 4.556/328.30 at the quarter during last weekend's qualifying at Brainerd:
0-60 feet: 5.05 G
60-330 feet: 3.03 G
330-660 feet: 4.49 G
660-990 feet: 1.94 G
990 feet-1320 feet: 1.46 G
0-60 feet: 5.05 G
60-330 feet: 3.03 G
330-660 feet: 4.49 G
660-990 feet: 1.94 G
990 feet-1320 feet: 1.46 G
I have seen comments from TF drivers that the car makes more like 7-8 G:s when the clutch starts to lock up, I assume they takes that from the data recording. I don´t know what the best is at 1/8 since they don´t have records for that but I have seen over 280 in 3.00 seconds, pretty fast!
With the exception of the 0-60 feet number the figures will peak higher than the spreadsheet displays because those are averages over a hundred metres or so (because that's all the incrementals give you). Even so, you can tell exactly where the clutch is kicking in and you can plainly see the acceleration curve drop after half track 
The only comparison I have ever done between my spreadsheet and an actual run was a pass by Dave Wilson's Top Methanol Dragster and my sheet was showing the acceleration over 0-60 feet as 1 G too high for reasons I explained in my previous posting.
The only comparison I have ever done between my spreadsheet and an actual run was a pass by Dave Wilson's Top Methanol Dragster and my sheet was showing the acceleration over 0-60 feet as 1 G too high for reasons I explained in my previous posting.
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