Direct oxygen feed to an engine - stupid idea?
Discussion
Whilst a few mates and myself were in a pub a while back we had a cunning plan - since Nitrous Oxide works (or so I've been led to believe) by incresing the amount of oxygen going into an engine, wouldn't it be best to just put a bottle of pure oxygen in?
Another idea we had was to put an oxygen feed into a turbo, so when the turbo operates more oxygen than normal is available to help with combustion.
Am I being stupid or will this work?
Another idea we had was to put an oxygen feed into a turbo, so when the turbo operates more oxygen than normal is available to help with combustion.
Am I being stupid or will this work?
Technically yes you will get more power but it begs the question why?
Nitros can give you all the power you want (or your engine can handle).
Nitros breaks down to give oxygen when in the engine.
The main reason Nitros is used is that while in its usual form it is much safer than oxygen.
If I were you I wouldn't go arsing around with pure 02 anywhere near flammable fuel.
The other thing is that Nitros is quite a good storage medium for oxygen. It is a liquid at high pressure while in its tank.
Oxygen on the other hand requires stupidly high pressure or cryogenic cooling.
Hope this helps.
I'm sure someone else will come on and tell you in more detail why nitros is better
Andy
Nitros can give you all the power you want (or your engine can handle).
Nitros breaks down to give oxygen when in the engine.
The main reason Nitros is used is that while in its usual form it is much safer than oxygen.
If I were you I wouldn't go arsing around with pure 02 anywhere near flammable fuel.
The other thing is that Nitros is quite a good storage medium for oxygen. It is a liquid at high pressure while in its tank.
Oxygen on the other hand requires stupidly high pressure or cryogenic cooling.
Hope this helps.
I'm sure someone else will come on and tell you in more detail why nitros is better
Andy
Hmmm, LOX + tyre would make an instant inferno, eh deltaf? Technically it wouldn't be using explosives either, although the results would be similar....
deltaf said: PS. Oxygen going into the engine in a pure form will eat the engine alive....... not a good idea..hence no one does it!
Edited to say: Oh you said engine? I thought you said Gatso....
>> Edited by CraigAlsop on Thursday 22 May 23:32
funkihamsta said: What about hyrdrogen peroxide (H2O2). This would probably spontaneously degrade to H20 and O2. Evaportation would cool the charge, whilst the oxygen would er...burn. Why hasn't this been done? Too expensive/dangerous?
IIRC H2O2 is highly corrosive, requiring special materials for storeage cylinders?
Isn't this what the shuttle uses for its solid fuel boosters?
funkihamsta said: What about hyrdrogen peroxide (H2O2). This would probably spontaneously degrade to H20 and O2. Evaportation would cool the charge, whilst the oxygen would er...burn. Why hasn't this been done? Too expensive/dangerous?
Hydrogen peroxide (bleaches hair !!) - it's was
also the fuel for Sammy Millers rocket car
powered by a lunar module enging .. very small
engine (rocket) and totally amazing to watch..
crackle fiz .. bang and then he's at the other
end of 1/4 mile before you have had a change to
move your head !
As for why nitrous Oxide rather than oxygen.
Well everyone is right about storeage but it's
also down to chemistry.
Petrol is a hydro carbon and it just happens to
run well when you add nitro + more fuel.
Oxygen would in theory + more fuel do the same .. perhaps there is a good reason why is has not been
done. It could well be a safety issue.
also the fuel for Sammy Millers rocket car
powered by a lunar module enging .. very small
engine (rocket) and totally amazing to watch..
crackle fiz .. bang and then he's at the other
end of 1/4 mile before you have had a change to
move your head !
As for why nitrous Oxide rather than oxygen.
Well everyone is right about storeage but it's
also down to chemistry.
Petrol is a hydro carbon and it just happens to
run well when you add nitro + more fuel.
Oxygen would in theory + more fuel do the same .. perhaps there is a good reason why is has not been
done. It could well be a safety issue.
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funkihamsta said: What about hyrdrogen peroxide (H2O2). This would probably spontaneously degrade to H20 and O2. Evaportation would cool the charge, whilst the oxygen would er...burn. Why hasn't this been done? Too expensive/dangerous?
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Oxygen would in theory + more fuel do the same .. perhaps there is a good reason why is has not been
done. It could well be a safety issue.
Oxygen is extremely corrosive, and as for mixing LOX with fuel, then detonating in the cylinder - well the engine would be blown to smithereens...
Isn't this what the shuttle uses for its solid fuel boosters?
The Shuttle's solid fuel boosters run Iron Oxide/Aluminium mix IIRC - commonly known as thermite!
And hydrogen peroxide is quite corrosive - it would degrade any rubber hoses etc.
>> Edited by Fatboy on Friday 23 May 11:14
MR2Mike said: No one has mentioned the charge cooling effect of N2O. The fact that it is stored (and injected) as a liquid means it's latent heat of vapourization causes a large reduction in charge temperatures, which gives a denser mixture and helps to avoid detonation.
I was just gonna say that mate, honest!
)H2O2 was used in the Messerschmidt (< sp?) rocket 'planes of WW2. It's also used as the oxidant in the Bell rocket pack (as used by James Bond-yes that was real 
) which has a binary fuel rocket motor. Its unfortunate problems include - potentially dissolving the pilot and extreme difficulty in storage. A high test hydrogen peroxide leak is believed to have caused the massive overpressure that destroyed Kursk.
As for using liquid O2 - pure oxygen plus hot aluminium, stand well back and enjoy the fireworks !
) which has a binary fuel rocket motor. Its unfortunate problems include - potentially dissolving the pilot and extreme difficulty in storage. A high test hydrogen peroxide leak is believed to have caused the massive overpressure that destroyed Kursk. As for using liquid O2 - pure oxygen plus hot aluminium, stand well back and enjoy the fireworks !
funkihamsta said: As l understand it, dragster use the highest possible octane. Its unlikely that the Nitro methane really explodes otherwise the car wouldn't even make the 1st run. Its probably just has massive octane rating.
I think it really does just explode - with a fueler motor its not a case of if the engine is going to lunch itself but when. Fuel engines run a mainly liquid charge (as opposed to air/fuel gaseous mix) and run right up against the point of hydraulic lock (eek!). Once a run has started the spark plug tip is shortly vapourised and from then on the engine diesels for the rest of the run
. I read somewhere that the enormous cylinder pressures can twist the crank by upto 20 degrees end to end and that the cam profiles are ground offset torsionally down the length of the cam to try and get the valve timing something approaching correct when the the motor is at full tilt... 
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