What to buy and where from (911) ?
Discussion
Currently I have three old TVRs, two of which PetrolTed has sold through this very site, when the 3rd one's gone, I want to swap my Audi A8 3.7 Sport for a 911. The 3 Tivs plus the Audi would give me a budget around 20K-25K (depending whether I trade the Audi or sell privately).
Want a 911, cos I now have two young kids (and I don't trust Cerberas). The car will not be an everyday car, but will be used a couple of times a week and for trackdays/sprints/hillclimbs. I want to run in a Standard class, so no 4 wheel drive.
What do you guys suggest pre-964 or 964. I don't want running costs to get away from me (though the Audi as a benchmark is not exactly cheap). I want the car to feel reasonably quick (I have had a modified Impreza and a Griff500 in the past)
or should I go for a very clean 944/968 and put some money in the bank?? (had a 944 in the past, reasonably impressed)
Want a 911, cos I now have two young kids (and I don't trust Cerberas). The car will not be an everyday car, but will be used a couple of times a week and for trackdays/sprints/hillclimbs. I want to run in a Standard class, so no 4 wheel drive.
What do you guys suggest pre-964 or 964. I don't want running costs to get away from me (though the Audi as a benchmark is not exactly cheap). I want the car to feel reasonably quick (I have had a modified Impreza and a Griff500 in the past)
or should I go for a very clean 944/968 and put some money in the bank?? (had a 944 in the past, reasonably impressed)
if I were you I would take a look at Autofarm or even better Northway / Northwood?? Porsche in Reading.
You will get the number out of 911 and Porsche world, Ray at his garage in reading has loads of 911's for sale - from 86/87 carrera's (nice cab at £13K) through to a couple of very smart 993's.
If I were you I would try to stretch to 27/28K and buy a 993, the running costs are way lower than a 964 and the car is likely to attain classic status.
Just my 2p worth
I did the same thing but went from a Cerby to a 996, and contrary to popular opinion it does not seem much slower....
Edited by bennno on Tuesday 20th November 18:17
You will get the number out of 911 and Porsche world, Ray at his garage in reading has loads of 911's for sale - from 86/87 carrera's (nice cab at £13K) through to a couple of very smart 993's.
If I were you I would try to stretch to 27/28K and buy a 993, the running costs are way lower than a 964 and the car is likely to attain classic status.
Just my 2p worth
I did the same thing but went from a Cerby to a 996, and contrary to popular opinion it does not seem much slower....
Edited by bennno on Tuesday 20th November 18:17
Thanks for the replies, not even considered that a little extra might stretch to a 993.
I also might get a better trade in on the A8 against a more expensive motor.
How do 993 running costs compare with pre964 models??
I currently live in Surrey, but will be moving to mid-Wales in December, and since a lot of the specialists are in M4/M40 area, I start looking soon
I also might get a better trade in on the A8 against a more expensive motor.
How do 993 running costs compare with pre964 models??
I currently live in Surrey, but will be moving to mid-Wales in December, and since a lot of the specialists are in M4/M40 area, I start looking soon
Get hold of a copy of 911 and Porsche World Nov 2001. There is a buying guide for the 993 that they reckon can be bought RHD from £28K. If you dont mind LHD they can be bought for about 25% less. The servicing costs are much lower because the 993 went to hydraulic tappets, and power increased from 250 to 272 BHP. You also get a 6 speed box. Rear suspension gets wishbones inatead of trailing arms.
If you can't run to a 993 look at a LHD 964 Carrera RS, considered by many Porsche people to be the ultimate (reasonably priced) track day car, but harsh on the road. LHD from £20 up
If you can't run to a 993 look at a LHD 964 Carrera RS, considered by many Porsche people to be the ultimate (reasonably priced) track day car, but harsh on the road. LHD from £20 up
Just my two cents, I've been looking into a 964 for about 2 months, don't own one so for those owners out there I bow to your superior wisdom. However just though I'd share the results of my research.
First, yes you can get a 993 for 28k, but it will be high milage, and maybe not the best looked after example. Also you won't get aircon at that price. (if it matters - and for resale on these it does)
Seems that decent 993's with a 'normal' spec and reasonable miles cost about 31-33 min from a specialist.
I can't run to that, but a decent late model 964 can be had for about 22k from a specialist. Running costs are higher, but not massively, and for 10k less you should get a spotless 964 rather than a possibly tatty 993.
Power is only 250bhp verses 272, but for 300 quid a rechip sorts this out. The recieved wisdom here is that the 964 was deliberatly hamstrung by porsche so that the 993 would have something to persuade people to buy it rather than a just the new bodyshape.
As I said just my two cents.
I'l be driving both at the weekend so if anyone is interested I'll post my thoughts.
First, yes you can get a 993 for 28k, but it will be high milage, and maybe not the best looked after example. Also you won't get aircon at that price. (if it matters - and for resale on these it does)
Seems that decent 993's with a 'normal' spec and reasonable miles cost about 31-33 min from a specialist.
I can't run to that, but a decent late model 964 can be had for about 22k from a specialist. Running costs are higher, but not massively, and for 10k less you should get a spotless 964 rather than a possibly tatty 993.
Power is only 250bhp verses 272, but for 300 quid a rechip sorts this out. The recieved wisdom here is that the 964 was deliberatly hamstrung by porsche so that the 993 would have something to persuade people to buy it rather than a just the new bodyshape.
As I said just my two cents.
I'l be driving both at the weekend so if anyone is interested I'll post my thoughts.
mr tony - please publish your findings next week
nick-moss - I could live with LHD, but does the RS have rear seats? one of the reasons for getting rid of so many two seater cars is that I can take my (young) children with me. Harsh on the road is no problem having already got a near race spec suspened TVR and having had a modified Impreza and Griff500. I have no fillings and my children already have neck muscles like Mike Tyson!!
Thanks for the replies
nick-moss - I could live with LHD, but does the RS have rear seats? one of the reasons for getting rid of so many two seater cars is that I can take my (young) children with me. Harsh on the road is no problem having already got a near race spec suspened TVR and having had a modified Impreza and Griff500. I have no fillings and my children already have neck muscles like Mike Tyson!!
Thanks for the replies
You can get a very good 1995 RHD 968 Clubsport for £15- £20K, super handling on the track and very refined and comfortable on the road. Again Porsche and 911 World has a good selection fer sale every month. www.chpltd.com/test/shop/911coverupdate.html
Not 100% sure, but I think that part of the lightening procedure was to strip out the rear seats along with most of the sound deadening, electric windows, aircon etc. Of course some people specced their new RS's with all the options, rather defeating the point of the RS in the first place. Aircon is definitely a selling point in the road car, but IMO, because the engine is in the back, there is very little heat soak and aircon isn't the essential it is in front or mid engined cars.
A 964RS does have back seats but all the padding is removed. However as most RS's have been used as track day cars most people remove the back seats and carpeting completly.
Finding a 964RS with Aircon is also differcult (Having said that Park Lane(Skyline,Impreza specialist) have a Silver 964RS with aircon for sale)
993 RS's are slightly more common with Aircon. I currently have a 964RS
so feel free to ask any questions IMHO best car I've ever owned unless you
plan to use it everyday.
Edited by paulc on Thursday 22 November 16:49
Edited by paulc on Thursday 22 November 16:52
Finding a 964RS with Aircon is also differcult (Having said that Park Lane(Skyline,Impreza specialist) have a Silver 964RS with aircon for sale)
993 RS's are slightly more common with Aircon. I currently have a 964RS
so feel free to ask any questions IMHO best car I've ever owned unless you
plan to use it everyday.
Edited by paulc on Thursday 22 November 16:49
Edited by paulc on Thursday 22 November 16:52
air con does not matter so much as the engine is behind and therefore the engine temp is not being pushed in to the car as per a TIV!!
Anyway if you need it aftermarket a/c is only £12-1500ish.
Northway/northwood Porsche in reading had a VGC 993 C2 in Speed Yellow for £28K when I looked
Anyway if you need it aftermarket a/c is only £12-1500ish.
Northway/northwood Porsche in reading had a VGC 993 C2 in Speed Yellow for £28K when I looked
Drove a 964 at the weekend (didn't have time to drive a 993).
Went to paragon, who were very helpful and friendly, if a rather long way from Surrey!
The condition of the car (a 1990 c2 cabrio in midnight blue with cream leather) I saw was fantastic, spotless paint and interior, even the cream carpets were in great condition under the overmats.
However once I was sat inside (before turning the key), I couldn't help feeling that this car was a real retrograde step from my mgf! (yes you did read that right...)
I know its unfair to compare a 1990 car to a 1998 car, but you figure that a porsche as a top of the line car would have a better standard of interior, rather than loads of bare wires hanging off the dash, a few dials in a row and 2 sliders for a heater. What was there was very solid, I was just dissapointed that porsche seemed to have forgotten a few interior panels. The cabrio roof also seemed to lack the seal quality of the mg roof and whisled like mad, becoming quite distracting at anything over 30mph.
As for driving, floor mounted pedals are a bit weird to say the least though I figure I could get used to them. The brakes however, were alarmingly on or off, with very little progression or feel. The gearchange was less than smooth, the clutch very heavy. On the positive side the steering was sharp, but every stone on the tarmac transmitted a jolt straight up through your arms.
I figure this car would be an absolute hoot on a track, but as an everyday driver for me, I'm not so sure. The power and grip put a big grin on my face at points, but very harsh ride didn't make for a particularly enjoyable ride.
In summary great car, but what you can see here is just how far car manufacture has come in 8 years. I'm not knocking the Porsche, in its day it was undoubtedly top of the heap, and its a great credit to the car that nearly 12 years later it looks and feels almost as good as new. If I had a space (and budget!) for a second car then I'd definately take a second look.
However as a main car for me to replace the mgf, the increase in performance isn't great enough to accept the retrograde step in terms of driver comfort.
Now I think having sat in a couple of 993's that for me this is the way to go.
Better start saving then...
Went to paragon, who were very helpful and friendly, if a rather long way from Surrey!
The condition of the car (a 1990 c2 cabrio in midnight blue with cream leather) I saw was fantastic, spotless paint and interior, even the cream carpets were in great condition under the overmats.
However once I was sat inside (before turning the key), I couldn't help feeling that this car was a real retrograde step from my mgf! (yes you did read that right...)
I know its unfair to compare a 1990 car to a 1998 car, but you figure that a porsche as a top of the line car would have a better standard of interior, rather than loads of bare wires hanging off the dash, a few dials in a row and 2 sliders for a heater. What was there was very solid, I was just dissapointed that porsche seemed to have forgotten a few interior panels. The cabrio roof also seemed to lack the seal quality of the mg roof and whisled like mad, becoming quite distracting at anything over 30mph.
As for driving, floor mounted pedals are a bit weird to say the least though I figure I could get used to them. The brakes however, were alarmingly on or off, with very little progression or feel. The gearchange was less than smooth, the clutch very heavy. On the positive side the steering was sharp, but every stone on the tarmac transmitted a jolt straight up through your arms.
I figure this car would be an absolute hoot on a track, but as an everyday driver for me, I'm not so sure. The power and grip put a big grin on my face at points, but very harsh ride didn't make for a particularly enjoyable ride.
In summary great car, but what you can see here is just how far car manufacture has come in 8 years. I'm not knocking the Porsche, in its day it was undoubtedly top of the heap, and its a great credit to the car that nearly 12 years later it looks and feels almost as good as new. If I had a space (and budget!) for a second car then I'd definately take a second look.
However as a main car for me to replace the mgf, the increase in performance isn't great enough to accept the retrograde step in terms of driver comfort.
Now I think having sat in a couple of 993's that for me this is the way to go.
Better start saving then...
Interesting report Mr Tony!
Shouldn't be any bare wires on the dash, and C2s should have heating system knobs, not sliders.
The 911 is a retrograde interior though, up to and including the 993. You will feel at home in a 1973 RS if you drive a 1995 Turbo 4!
You get used to the switchgear layout - quite haphazard, and although the door bins, big dials and chunky switches are old fashioned, they give character and are very solid.
No interior panels should have been missing! 911 interiors should still be quite neat, even if slightly weird looking.
The cabrio roof will be four-layered and good quality, but will be noisy due to the parameters of the 911's roof design.
As you say, you'll get used to the floor-mounted pedals, but they are very weird first time out. 993 has them, too!
The brakes are awesome when you are familiar with them. More acquaintance needed - the C2s I've driven have great feel, lots of power and no fade.
The gearchange isn't so great, but okay, the 993 has a six speeder that is better.
Maybe the 993 is a better option - LHD from 22k or so (although these are not a million miles away from a 964), or dare I suggest a Boxster? The modern porsches offer more of what you may be looking for.
Cheers
Domster
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff