Porsche Racing in the UK

[loach]

Having had a little rant on another thread regarding Porsche's yawning indifference to racing at the moment, it prompted me to ask a question. Many of you guys here are competing in various championships in Porsches at the moment in the UK. I've done a little racing before, and always fancied having another go in a Porsche (or a BMW) tin-top. What are the possibilities at the moment in the UK, and where's the best place to start? Equally, what are the likely costs (give or take - I know it's a bit of a 'how long is a piece of string' question)?

I get a bit confused myself at times - I know there's the Porsche Cup , and a Porsche Challenge, Britcar and so on - these would represent the pricier avenues. What else is there? Could someone perhaps give some sort of definitive(ish) list and/or direct me to the relevant sites?

[hunter 66]

Go to www.pcgb.co.uk for great club Porsche racing

[loach]

hunter 66 said:

Go to www.pcgb.co.uk for great club Porsche racing

Cheers for that - I should have checked there. Anyone here doing the Open or speed Championships? Any good? Very expensive?

[gt2-r]

I do the Porsche Open in a GT2-r.

I used to race formula renault but found the logistical effort around a race weekend of 20 min qualifying and 20 min race a bit tiresome. The Open is good now because it offers many 1 hour race events or double header race weekends. Entry fee is slightly higher because of it, but you have to pay for tracktime. This makes far more sense for me to do fewer weekends away but get more out of it when you do. Also you get to race at Spa for 50 min race and 30 min race. What more could you ask from a club level race series.

[thegoose]

In the club championship you can buy a competitive car for £15,000 or so. Entry fees are around £175 - £200 per race (20mins or so plus same qualifying), I daren't add up too many of the costs cos it'll frighten me but costs will vary a lot between different competitors. I tow the car there myself and run it myself, although I use B&Bs rather than camping (keeps the pit crew/girlfriend happy ). Others will have their team take the car to the circuit and run it for them - costs will vary depending on who's running it and I think/presume depend on how many cars the team is running that weekend (i.e. costs are split between drivers). Henry & Steve Rance will be able to tell you better on this as they use Jaz & Parr respectively to run their cars.

I don't work to a fixed budget cos I want to do the whole championship and be competitive (as I have been) so I don't want to limit things, within reason. However, if I were to guess I would expect that the season (18 races) will cost in excess of £1000 per race.

where the word 'I' has been used, please substitute with 'my employer' - this being the limited company I am director of, which chooses to spend the vast proportion of it's marketing costs on sponsoring a racing car, driving which is another part of my role for the company

I think most people run their cars themselves in the Sprint championship (how much work can it take to prepare the car for up to 5 50sec - 1.5 minute runs?) and whilst the costs will undoubtedly be lower, the cost per minute of competing will be much higher. I prefer being next to my competitors on the tarmac, but for others this is a deterrent.

I love the idea of the longer Open races, however my car wouldn't be competitive in the class it would fit into (been there, done that, got a class 3rd) and I wouldn't want to use it unecessarily when I am contending a Championship with it. So, unless someone offers me an affordable shared drive in theirs or I win the lottery (although I believe buying a ticket is a pre-requisite) I'll be sticking with what I know for now.

I can highly recommend the spirit & atmosphere of our races though. If you haven't watched yet, why not come to Silverstone on Sun 20th May to see what goes on? Two races in one day for both Club Championship & Open series.

[loach]

Thanks for the replies. 20th May you say, goose. I'll pencil it in and see if I can make it - sound like a perfect opportunity to see what goes on.

[Wetwipe]

Step 1 – buy a GT3

Step 2 – fettle liberally

Step 3 – allow your bestest friends to road test it at a variety of UK racing circuits to ensure the suspension modifications are up to standard and optimised for Loach’s exacting standards

Step 4 – hmmm there must be one. Can’t quite think what it is though……. Oh that’s it. Let Loach go racing whilst nervy walks moodily round the paddock in his Steve McQueen overalls whilst Torch heads off to the lunch tent

i'll do the pit board

[graeme36s]

I am very out out touch with the class structures of say the Open or the Classic if it still exists. In simple terms the faster you want to go the more money it is going to cost. Slicks over road based tyres is a consideration.
What sort of budget do you want to spend ?. For my money the cheapest fairly quick 911 to run would be a carrera 2RS, but not necessarily the cheapest 911 to buy. At the other end of the scale a 996 GT3RS costs a small fortune to run.
I think the SuperCup is around £250K for a season, and the British GT's in the cup class will set you back about £70K for your seat.

[loach]

graeme36s said:

I am very out out touch with the class structures of say the Open or the Classic if it still exists. In simple terms the faster you want to go the more money it is going to cost. Slicks over road based tyres is a consideration.
What sort of budget do you want to spend ?. For my money the cheapest fairly quick 911 to run would be a carrera 2RS, but not necessarily the cheapest 911 to buy. At the other end of the scale a 996 GT3RS costs a small fortune to run.
I think the SuperCup is around £250K for a season, and the British GT's in the cup class will set you back about £70K for your seat.

Leaving aside the cost of the car and its preparation, I'd hope for something like 20-25k for a Season's racing to include tyres, maintenance and entry fees. Something like that.

[andy97]

My guess is that you could run a 944S2 or 968CS in the Porsche Club Championship for that.

[melv]

And don't forget the 'budget' Lodge Motorsports 924 series......

[935]

The first thing to remember is that motorsport is expensive. You can calculate the costs for as long as you like and the reality will be far more expensive. Believe me - I've done it!
The PCGB hill climb championship maybe a good place to start. You are not racing against other cars at the same time so accident damage will be entirely your responsibility. I believe its a very competitive championship and hillclimbing requires a precision rarely found in circuit racing. OK, so each run may only be 60 seconds but you get a few practice goes and about 3 or 4 timed runs so its not so bad. I think the fellow competitors are a good bunch so the social side should be OK. Dont forget, a good part of the enjoyment is had from the interaction with your fellow competitors.
If you fancy circuit racing there is the Lodge Sports 924 championship that is supposed to be very cost effective. I can't comment because I have not done it. Then there is the Club championship and the Open Series. Both of these get more and more costly. After this there is British GT, Britcar the sky is the limit really. Dont forget the 750 Motor Club. They organise good meetings and the racing can be excellent. They have Porsches in their ranks and they are a thoroughly good bunch of people.
Its completely up to you. Decide if you want the direct competition of circuit racing or whether you fancy the intense precision of hill climb. Whatever you do, enjoy and be safe.
Richard.

[thegoose]

loach said:

Leaving aside the cost of the car and its preparation, I'd hope for something like 20-25k for a Season's racing to include tyres, maintenance and entry fees. Something like that.

andy97 said:

My guess is that you could run a 944S2 or 968CS in the Porsche Club Championship for that.

That is something similar to my cost hopes so Andy is right. I personally prefer the 911 but there are pros & cons to both - the front engined cars are cheaper for bodywork, but a little less reliable, they have larger brakes and wheels/tyres & ABS and should certainly be easier to drive. Different circuits suit front or rear engined cars differently - last year Silverstone National was faster for 944S2/968s but the GP circuit seemed better for 911s. I won on both, but on the national circuit it was gifted to me by way of a 944S2 (that was way in front) almost losing a front wheel and retiring. There was no incident, just a component failure.

I would definitely recommend either class 1 (the dearest to run in) where the 964 is probably the most competitive car, or class 3. This is for a few reasons:
1) I could sell you a very good track prepared 944 of mine (known it from new, I had it prepared) for £5000 which needs little changing to race in class 3 (lowest cost to run in)
2) I know someone selling a 964 RS replica race car that could be down-specced to class 1 (could be raced in the Open as-is too)
3) Whichever you choose, I won't be competing against you

Seriously though, if I were to start in the Championship now I wouldn't choose class 2. This is because if you're quick you end up with as many (or more) class 1 cars behind you as in front - these all have more power/speed and often better brakes, meaning they can pass you on a straight or even into a bend, but if they can't drive round the bends as quick they are then slowing you down. It is difficult to pass a car that has more grunt and better brakes, even if your capable of considerably quicker lap times.

The class 3 cars tend not to get bunched up with the class 2 cars so the problem doesn't occur the same there.

I hope everyone's comments are useful and help you take in more of what's going on when you come to watch. I didn't have any such advance info when I took the plunge, but I would've welcomed it rather than muddling along on my own to begin with. For example, I had absolutely hopeless brakes till the last but one meeting in my first season (2005) - I ALWAYS had terrible brake fade/no brakes. Given the overall result I got, I often wonder - what if......?

The over-riding thing here is the advice I was given when pondering on doing it:
Better to try than to wish you had.....

I also justified it on the basis I have no wife and family to support, and you can quit (racing) anytime.

Edited by thegoose on Wednesday 2nd May 10:46

[lewistintin]

Just a quick note on the 968cs... They break down, lots and lots... And parts are either on backorder at Porsche, or impossible to find used. A 911 is much easier. Plus people in the paddock are always very friendly and will (assuming your not enemies at this point) probably lend you parts.
For 20-25k you will probably be at the bottom end of the market for using a team for the full season. Ideal if you have zip mechanical skills like me). If your careful, plan ahead all your testing, and try to avoid knocks on the car (which you can if you really want) you can test and race for not that much £££.

Good Luck with it. And goose and henry, I'll see you at plenty of the races this year! (I'm spectating though)

[melv]

Lodge quote me in IRO £7,500 per season last year plus initial cost of car and mods, assuming no major brakages/crashes and doing yer own spannering....cheap as chips!

[steve rance]

melv said:

Lodge quote me in IRO £7,500 per season last year plus initial cost of car and mods, assuming no major brakages/crashes and doing yer own spannering....cheap as chips!

In reality £7500 turns into 15K and you spend most of your spare time prepping the car. I prepped my own car when I started racing when I had a lot more time than I do now. It was a nightmare AND I was given a free chasis and spares from the manufacturer. Just getting the car prepped and through a weekend was 10 times harder than racing it. I know that we are all different but certainly I couldn't go through that again without my loosing my sanity and my relatioship breaking up so be realistic about exactly waht you are taking on before committing. I race a 996 cup car in the open which is prepped by PARR Motorsport. The racing is good and there are some quick drivers on the grid. The attraction for me was the longer races and the race calendar which is particularly good. This year the Open is attracting very new machinery and that will ultimately make the series even more competitive. Qualifying and race times are significantly quicker and the paddock is still friendly but it aint cheap. The club championship provides good racing and an ideal plarform to practice your race craft but to be run by a team and with some testing I would think that 25k + accidents and breakdowns is realistic....Plus the car. Another option would be to contact some of the open drivers and ask is any of them have some stints available for the one hour races. You may be able to put a deal together for a few tests and say 4 x 30 minute stints during the season.

Good luck, maybe i'll see you in the paddock sometime.


Steve R

[andy97]

I'd also like to point some of you guys who may wish to race on a budget at the Classic Sports Car Club & its race series' (www.classicsportscarclub.co.uk). They have 3 series at the moment with 1 more due to start shortly. The series are: "Swinging Sixties", "Tin Tops", "Formula Free" and the new one, "Future Classics".

"F Free" is for single seaters and "Tin Tops" is for saloons and hatch backs up to 2 litres so we'll confine this post to "Swinging Sixties" & "Future Classics".

As its name suggests, "Swinging Sixties" is for cars from the 1960's but there is an inviation class for cars from the 70's in the spirit of the class. I think that a 911S has run in this series and a 914 would be welcome! The USP for this series is that it's practice and races are each 40 mins long for 1 or 2 drivers, with a compulsory pit stop. This is good fun and allows cost to be shared. Entry fees are circa £265-285 per car. Good value for the track time. The racing is competitive but I would suggest that it is not as competitive as the Porsche Club series. Grid sizes are excellent with 33, I think, out at Snetterton.

The "Future Classics" series kicks off soon with 3 or 4 trial races this year ahead of a series next year, hopefully. Same idea - 40 min, 1 or 2 driver races. Entry fees for this years "taster" races are planned to be just £99 per car. My guess is that 944S2 would be pretty nice car to run in the 2 litre to 3 litre class.

Regs in the CSCC series tend to be pretty free, the emphasis is on getting out there and enjoying yourself rather than having pages of regs for people to try & circumvent! Give it ago, you'll enjoy it.

Andy

PS. I race a Fiat Uno in the "Tin Tops" series. More fun than it sounds!

[nervous]

Wetwipe said:

Step 1 – buy a GT3

Step 2 – fettle liberally

Step 3 – allow your bestest friends to road test it at a variety of UK racing circuits to ensure the suspension modifications are up to standard and optimised for Loach’s exacting standards

Step 4 – hmmm there must be one. Can’t quite think what it is though……. Oh that’s it. Let Loach go racing whilst nervy walks moodily round the paddock in his Steve McQueen overalls whilst Torch heads off to the lunch tent

i'll do the pit board

the mans a genius. where do i sign (moodily)?

[loach]

nervous said:

Wetwipe said:

Step 1 – buy a GT3

Step 2 – fettle liberally

Step 3 – allow your bestest friends to road test it at a variety of UK racing circuits to ensure the suspension modifications are up to standard and optimised for Loach’s exacting standards

Step 4 – hmmm there must be one. Can’t quite think what it is though……. Oh that’s it. Let Loach go racing whilst nervy walks moodily round the paddock in his Steve McQueen overalls whilst Torch heads off to the lunch tent

i'll do the pit board

the mans a genius. where do i sign (moodily)?

The plaque for the alternates is in the ladies' room.

[loach]

Seriously. WTF is going on with this forum? Would ye just change the things you want to change and be done with it? It seems every day now my posts are in yellow or grey or tan or whatever. Change is fine, but constant flux is just annoying.