Discussion
Great car.
Please pick the 66 - 70 cars that are the original "Super 90" engine though. Not the naf re-introduced 2.0 van engined 74 model with impact bumpers!
66 - 68 = short wheel base. Proportions look better. My choice.
69 - 70 = long wheel base. Car = same length, but rear wheels about 2 inches further back, to smooth the tail happy handling on the 6 cylinder.
912s have much more neutral handling than a 911, and you can really thrash one around a track or twisty road to great effect.
Cheap insurance = mine was £200.
No road tax if you go for a pre 72 car.
Costs. Service items are cheap, and your local OPC can still supply original "BERU" spark plugs, cork gaskets, air and oil filters, etc.
Not dear at all.
I did the servicing myself, and left the car a whole day to cool down before checking valve clearances with a trusty socket, snapper and feeler gauge lying on my back under the rocker covers!
Be warned, the rockers are sealed with a cork gasket (so is most of it including the oil drain plug) and these are tricky - and the rocker covers only clip on with a wire tension bar. You need to try vaseline to seal the gasket as opposed to Blue Hylomar type of specialist gasket sealants, as the heat produced by this little motor tends to make the gasket sealant dry up and become brittle where vaseline stays maleable.
Heat exchangers can be problematic, and if rotten it will cost the same to rebuild one of these as the more valuable 911 sister cars, hence why so many 912s are gone... They are as expensive top maintain as the early 911s, but worth less.
The 912 is no less a car to own and drive. I assure you.
I recommend picking up a set of 1720cc pistons and barrels... This kit fitted will liberate around 110 bhp with a good exhaust. More can be done with some nice cams. 110bhp will be enough for 0 - 60 in about 9 seconds, and top 110 easy. a 5 speed car tuned up more with be simliar performance to a 911s 2.0.
Read "Octane" magazine where you will find Robert Coucher the editor drives one on historic events where his routinely whips 911s due to the amazing handling, comparitively light weight and the car looks so cool too!
Exhaust note...
Well, can be a bit VW beetle as standard.
My advice is to fit a BURSCH high performance exhaust. This makes it sound much more like a small V8 and lifts performance too.
Fuchs alloys are highly prized and cost a bomb. Standard steel wheels and chrome caps look stunning on a 912 too.
Try to find a sunroof coupe with the 5-dial dash board, and ideally a 5 speed 'box too.
Most american import cars are pretty rust free, but you WILL have to fix some stuff and become a classic Porsche specialist yourself when you get one!
Please pick the 66 - 70 cars that are the original "Super 90" engine though. Not the naf re-introduced 2.0 van engined 74 model with impact bumpers!
66 - 68 = short wheel base. Proportions look better. My choice.
69 - 70 = long wheel base. Car = same length, but rear wheels about 2 inches further back, to smooth the tail happy handling on the 6 cylinder.
912s have much more neutral handling than a 911, and you can really thrash one around a track or twisty road to great effect.
Cheap insurance = mine was £200.
No road tax if you go for a pre 72 car.
Costs. Service items are cheap, and your local OPC can still supply original "BERU" spark plugs, cork gaskets, air and oil filters, etc.
Not dear at all.
I did the servicing myself, and left the car a whole day to cool down before checking valve clearances with a trusty socket, snapper and feeler gauge lying on my back under the rocker covers!
Be warned, the rockers are sealed with a cork gasket (so is most of it including the oil drain plug) and these are tricky - and the rocker covers only clip on with a wire tension bar. You need to try vaseline to seal the gasket as opposed to Blue Hylomar type of specialist gasket sealants, as the heat produced by this little motor tends to make the gasket sealant dry up and become brittle where vaseline stays maleable.
Heat exchangers can be problematic, and if rotten it will cost the same to rebuild one of these as the more valuable 911 sister cars, hence why so many 912s are gone... They are as expensive top maintain as the early 911s, but worth less.
The 912 is no less a car to own and drive. I assure you.
I recommend picking up a set of 1720cc pistons and barrels... This kit fitted will liberate around 110 bhp with a good exhaust. More can be done with some nice cams. 110bhp will be enough for 0 - 60 in about 9 seconds, and top 110 easy. a 5 speed car tuned up more with be simliar performance to a 911s 2.0.
Read "Octane" magazine where you will find Robert Coucher the editor drives one on historic events where his routinely whips 911s due to the amazing handling, comparitively light weight and the car looks so cool too!
Exhaust note...
Well, can be a bit VW beetle as standard.
My advice is to fit a BURSCH high performance exhaust. This makes it sound much more like a small V8 and lifts performance too.
Fuchs alloys are highly prized and cost a bomb. Standard steel wheels and chrome caps look stunning on a 912 too.
Try to find a sunroof coupe with the 5-dial dash board, and ideally a 5 speed 'box too.
Most american import cars are pretty rust free, but you WILL have to fix some stuff and become a classic Porsche specialist yourself when you get one!
I've driven one - dreadfully slow compared with a 'real' 911, Veedub engine note (identical to my Grandad's old Beetle) and somehow just not as light on its toes as my 911E was. BUT if you just want the lovely 911 looks that still come with a 912 and are not bothered about how fast it goes or what it sounds like, then why not buy one - just remember to buy on condition - they cost just the same to restore as a 2.4S costing in the region of 8 times as much but sadly won't ever offer you such a return on your investment!
You can pick up lhd 2.2 and 2/4Ts for the #10k mark - use one of those as a benchmark for a 912 you might be thinkiig of buying
You can pick up lhd 2.2 and 2/4Ts for the #10k mark - use one of those as a benchmark for a 912 you might be thinkiig of buying
drybeer said:
a 5 speed car tuned up more with be simliar performance to a 911s 2.0.
You are having a Giraffe!
A 911T 2.0 I will probably give you, but I can only assume you have never driven a 2.0S, totally different ballpark, makes my 964 feel sluggish when it comes on cam.
As for the 912.
It's basically a budget 911, it's a 911 with either a 356 or a beetle engine. The 911 isn't the lightest of shells to push around so don't expect a thrill a minute, but they are ok, they will pull along cleanly, and I think it would be cruel to call one slow.
The negative points have been pretty much covered above but:
Everyone will assume it is a beetle approaching by the exhaust note.
They are not that cheap to buy, you can buy far better Porsche's for the same money, although not an early 911 which is the only other car that will give you the retro cool that this body shape offers.
If you buy a rotten one you will spend exactly the same amount of money rebuilding it as you will a 911, this is obviously not good business sense, but classic cars rarely are.
Do bear in mind though that the prices for a decent one are damned close to half decent 3.0SC's which are a better car in every respect as far as a 911 goes. And if you start factoring rebuild costs in there you could be looking at anything up to a 996! Take it from me early 911's and by that token 912's rot very well!
So bsically I wouldn't do it, and I would never advise a friend to do it, whereas I love 914's and 924's so I'm not a Porsche snob at all, but if you like it and buy carefully go for it.
wildoliver said:
drybeer said:
a 5 speed car tuned up more with be simliar performance to a 911s 2.0.
You are having a Giraffe!
A 911T 2.0 I will probably give you, but I can only assume you have never driven a 2.0S,
I've owned both! Ask Robert Coucher how fast his is! It does (and mine did) cane 911 s driven properly!
912 with 130bhp and 900 kilos, vs. 911s with 130bhp and 1100 kilos...
Do the mathematics!
wildoliver said:
It's basically a budget 911, it's a 911 with either a 356 or a beetle engine.
There was only ever the super 90 Porsche motor from the 356 or later the 2.0 van engine - which I've already said was rubbish...
Never a beetle motor.
Please ask Wild Oliver if he's ever tried to put VW parts on a Porsche - they do not fit!
wildoliver said:
The 911 isn't the lightest of shells
Disagree strongly.
Compare one to another contemporary car like an MGB roadster shell - the Porsche is more rigid and substantially lighter!
Please don't compare these to modern cars where they will surely look primitive!
wildoliver said:
The negative points have been pretty much covered above but:
Everyone will assume it is a beetle approaching by the exhaust note.
Everyone will assume it is a beetle approaching by the exhaust note.
Trust me - you fit the sports exhaust that these have - no-one will think this is a VW beetle.
You'll try to find tunnels to drive into just to hear the sound echoing!
wildoliver said:
They are not that cheap to buy, you can buy far better Porsche's for the same money, although not an early 911 which is the only other car that will give you the retro cool that this body shape offers.
If you buy a rotten one you will spend exactly the same amount of money rebuilding it as you will a 911, this is obviously not good business sense, but classic cars rarely are.
As I said, and I do not disagree with this.
I would still recommend one of these cars...
However outright power is not what it is all about.
It's about classic car motoring, with all the pitfalls and problems that go with it.
You'll have fun with it, and have fond memories of it for life.
If one the other hand you want a more expensive car to fix, buy a 3.0SC!
This is as "EVO" natured a car as any in well maintained form.
Drive one or two, and if you like the feel of it, go for it!
Change it and buy faster ones afterwards.
A 3.0SC will never look the same with the horrible (in comparison) impact bumpers etc!
Wildoliver, disregard the impact 912 - truly a poor car...as DryBeer said. I'm presuming that this guy wants the car more for the classic shape than the performance.....which clearly an impact bumper car isn't going to provide.
That car does look good at £10,500 but that is in the lhd Porsche engined car price range...
That car does look good at £10,500 but that is in the lhd Porsche engined car price range...
Drybeer I wasn't having a pop, but I'm sorry a 2.0s is a rapid car, and I can never see a 912 coming close, which is probably why the price differential between a 911s and a 912 however well tuned exists, I'm afraid buyers vote with their feet.
I think we both know what I meant by beetle engine, pedancy is not an attractive trait, and while yes they can sound nice with a sports exhaust they never have that smooth thrum mixed with a scream that the flat 6 will have.
Rubystone I agre if the chap wants a car that looks like an early 911 he will not find a cheaper way to do it, but if he wants a cheap 911 then it is possibly the worst choice he could make.
I think we both know what I meant by beetle engine, pedancy is not an attractive trait, and while yes they can sound nice with a sports exhaust they never have that smooth thrum mixed with a scream that the flat 6 will have.
Rubystone I agre if the chap wants a car that looks like an early 911 he will not find a cheaper way to do it, but if he wants a cheap 911 then it is possibly the worst choice he could make.
wildoliver said:
Rubystone I agre if the chap wants a car that looks like an early 911 he will not find a cheaper way to do it, but if he wants a cheap 911 then it is possibly the worst choice he could make.
Agreed, totally. Far better off buying a nice SC - one that a PCGB member has cherished and then tried to sell for far too much money, with no success....that's how I've always bought then
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