Discussion
I have lots of info.
Ask me specific questions if you want.
The 964 is a good choice. It is not much behind the 993 in terms of technology - the rear suspension was the main change, but only an expert would be able to tell the subtle differences in normal driving. All 911s handle in a unique way!
The cabrio is a bit heavier, not as stiff, doens't look as good maybe. They're good cars but not driver's cars. The RS is the best driver's 964, otherwise get a C2 coupe.
Domster
Edited by domster on Monday 12th November 10:00
Ask me specific questions if you want.
The 964 is a good choice. It is not much behind the 993 in terms of technology - the rear suspension was the main change, but only an expert would be able to tell the subtle differences in normal driving. All 911s handle in a unique way!
The cabrio is a bit heavier, not as stiff, doens't look as good maybe. They're good cars but not driver's cars. The RS is the best driver's 964, otherwise get a C2 coupe.
Domster
Edited by domster on Monday 12th November 10:00
Cheers domster.
Down to the specifics :
Looking at C2 (Can't see the point of the C4? - is there any?)
Regarding Turbos, the 964 seems to come in two flavours 3.3 and 3.6. Is a 964 3.3 turbo 'worth it' over a standard c2?
I figure this has the older engine setup from the pre 964 911.
Are Turbos of this sort of age best avoided? - or do you just need deep pockets?
Also will a 3.3 turbo be significantly faster than a standard 964 c2?
Do turbos have the same 6k service schedule?
I'm keen to have airbags if I can, but not essential. - I figure only the late model 964's have em.
If you can shed any light on the above I'd be pretty chuffed!
Down to the specifics :
Looking at C2 (Can't see the point of the C4? - is there any?)
Regarding Turbos, the 964 seems to come in two flavours 3.3 and 3.6. Is a 964 3.3 turbo 'worth it' over a standard c2?
I figure this has the older engine setup from the pre 964 911.
Are Turbos of this sort of age best avoided? - or do you just need deep pockets?
Also will a 3.3 turbo be significantly faster than a standard 964 c2?
Do turbos have the same 6k service schedule?
I'm keen to have airbags if I can, but not essential. - I figure only the late model 964's have em.
If you can shed any light on the above I'd be pretty chuffed!
Hi Mr T,
This is all IMHO and off the top of my head, but may be useful:
C2 vs C4 - there is little point in going for the C4 as it doesn't handle as crisply (less of a driver's car) and is more complicated to maintain... when they go wrong they are v expensive to fix. I reckon long term residuals will be worse, too.
Turbos - I haver also been looking into this subject as I quite fancy a 3.3 Turbo 2 as my next car. However, the standard C2 is 1) quick enough, 2) cheaper to run, repair and maintain and 3) handles better because it has the nimbler narrow body. I came to the conclusion that a 964RS was the ultimate driver's 964, not the turbo. I love the look of the later 3.6 turbos, by the way, but there are very rare and still quite pricey. As you correctly mention, the 320bhp 3.3 turbo lump was carried over from the Turbo 1. They didn't have time to redevelop the later 3.6 engine to turbo spec when they launched the Turbo 2, hence the 3.6 model coming out two-three years afterwards.
Turbo running costs - I have read good reports about the build of Turbo 2s, but they WILL cost more to run, repair and maintain than astandard C2 - even if just routine work. I saw one for sale that had nasty oil leaks from the heads, too... that would be a grand or so to fix for starters. Get a good one and you will be okay, a bad one will be a bottomless pit. If your pockets aren't so deep, go for a decent C2 and get it tuned at AmD (hotfilm, chip, cat bypass, filter etc brings power up to almost 300 bhp... and it's not slow with 250!). This will be much cheaper to run and probably more fun on the twisty bits.
Performance 3.3 Turbo vs C2 - well the 0-60 figures are about 4.9 for the turbo, 5.1 for the C2 (although some have got the C2 under the fives). The 3.6 Turbo was 4.7.
Speed wise, the turbo 3.3 did 164 vs 158-161 for the C2, and the turbo 3.6 was up to 170.
However, in reality, a modified C2 should be as quick as a 3.3 Turbo 2, although a 3.6 will still have an edge.
The main point is that the Turbo 2 felt a lot more rapid because of the boost effect - it really punches above 3k revs. The normal C2 is more linear in power delivery, so although the T2 may not really be much quicker in practice, it should FEEL quicker and more thrilling.
Not sure about service intervals, but they should be at least, if not more, regular. I would do an oil change at 3k on a Turbo, as it is the lifeblood of your K27 turbo! Airbags were after 92 if I remember. They did a passenger one as an option as well, I think.
Hope this helps
Cheers
Domster
Edited by domster on Tuesday 13th November 13:12
This is all IMHO and off the top of my head, but may be useful:
C2 vs C4 - there is little point in going for the C4 as it doesn't handle as crisply (less of a driver's car) and is more complicated to maintain... when they go wrong they are v expensive to fix. I reckon long term residuals will be worse, too.
Turbos - I haver also been looking into this subject as I quite fancy a 3.3 Turbo 2 as my next car. However, the standard C2 is 1) quick enough, 2) cheaper to run, repair and maintain and 3) handles better because it has the nimbler narrow body. I came to the conclusion that a 964RS was the ultimate driver's 964, not the turbo. I love the look of the later 3.6 turbos, by the way, but there are very rare and still quite pricey. As you correctly mention, the 320bhp 3.3 turbo lump was carried over from the Turbo 1. They didn't have time to redevelop the later 3.6 engine to turbo spec when they launched the Turbo 2, hence the 3.6 model coming out two-three years afterwards.
Turbo running costs - I have read good reports about the build of Turbo 2s, but they WILL cost more to run, repair and maintain than astandard C2 - even if just routine work. I saw one for sale that had nasty oil leaks from the heads, too... that would be a grand or so to fix for starters. Get a good one and you will be okay, a bad one will be a bottomless pit. If your pockets aren't so deep, go for a decent C2 and get it tuned at AmD (hotfilm, chip, cat bypass, filter etc brings power up to almost 300 bhp... and it's not slow with 250!). This will be much cheaper to run and probably more fun on the twisty bits.
Performance 3.3 Turbo vs C2 - well the 0-60 figures are about 4.9 for the turbo, 5.1 for the C2 (although some have got the C2 under the fives). The 3.6 Turbo was 4.7.
Speed wise, the turbo 3.3 did 164 vs 158-161 for the C2, and the turbo 3.6 was up to 170.
However, in reality, a modified C2 should be as quick as a 3.3 Turbo 2, although a 3.6 will still have an edge.
The main point is that the Turbo 2 felt a lot more rapid because of the boost effect - it really punches above 3k revs. The normal C2 is more linear in power delivery, so although the T2 may not really be much quicker in practice, it should FEEL quicker and more thrilling.
Not sure about service intervals, but they should be at least, if not more, regular. I would do an oil change at 3k on a Turbo, as it is the lifeblood of your K27 turbo! Airbags were after 92 if I remember. They did a passenger one as an option as well, I think.
Hope this helps
Cheers
Domster
Edited by domster on Tuesday 13th November 13:12
A might fine memory you have there domster! Much appreciated.
So in conclusion, I'm better off with a 964, get it chipped / filmed up to 300bhp. Sounds like fun (god knows what it'll do to my insurance, but hey...)
Sounds like good advice, that is until I can afford a late RHD speedster, but hey I'll save for that one...
The driver in me says coupe, but the open air loving sports car streak in me says get a cabrio... Guess I'll have to resolve that one by driving a few..
On that note, I take it you've got a porker, can you recommend any dealers / specialists (in particular have you had any dealings with the 911virgin.com guys?)
Thanks for the advice!
So in conclusion, I'm better off with a 964, get it chipped / filmed up to 300bhp. Sounds like fun (god knows what it'll do to my insurance, but hey...)
Sounds like good advice, that is until I can afford a late RHD speedster, but hey I'll save for that one...
The driver in me says coupe, but the open air loving sports car streak in me says get a cabrio... Guess I'll have to resolve that one by driving a few..
On that note, I take it you've got a porker, can you recommend any dealers / specialists (in particular have you had any dealings with the 911virgin.com guys?)
Thanks for the advice!
Hi Mr T,
I have owned a few porsches, and driven 911s/964 C2s. I drive a Lotus Carlton at the moment, but will be selling it to go Porschewards once more. Did fancy an Esprit, but not so sure now. Top of my tree are 964RS and 993C2.
Overall, yes, a 964 C2 Coupe in a good colour, well-maintained, is a sensible choice. Modifying it slightly is good if the insurance can cope... the hot film modification is a 993 style improvement that improves throttle response and can add power when used with other sensible mods.
When buying one, you need to watch out for vibration from the transmission (dual mass flywheel), graunch from the clutch (clutch probs), try and check oil leaks (but not easy as they have an undertray on the C2) and a few other bits - mainly if it's had a new rear quarter as this is where spin damage will be.
As you say, best to drive cabs vs coupes. The cab is nice looking. Also, there are a few LHD Speedsters available for low-mid 20's if they appeal. They are nice cars, but not as much driver's car as RS, and some official parts prices (windscreen, hood etc) will probably be mental. Paul Stephens has a yellow one for 24k at paul-stephens-cars.co.uk
I'd recommend Northway Porsche in Reading for good value independent servicing, although I may start using Neil Bainbridge when I get my Porsche as he comes recommended from a C2 mate of mine. Henry at 911virgin.com? Well, I love his website, and I love the price of his cars, but I would take H himself with a large pinch of salt. He can be a bit unrealistic at times, and you need to inspect his cars for yourself. Some are good, others are tatty. He's worth a visit though - big farmhouse with all sorts of interesting cars lying around. Must be money in flogging Porkers!!!
Rgds
Domster
I have owned a few porsches, and driven 911s/964 C2s. I drive a Lotus Carlton at the moment, but will be selling it to go Porschewards once more. Did fancy an Esprit, but not so sure now. Top of my tree are 964RS and 993C2.
Overall, yes, a 964 C2 Coupe in a good colour, well-maintained, is a sensible choice. Modifying it slightly is good if the insurance can cope... the hot film modification is a 993 style improvement that improves throttle response and can add power when used with other sensible mods.
When buying one, you need to watch out for vibration from the transmission (dual mass flywheel), graunch from the clutch (clutch probs), try and check oil leaks (but not easy as they have an undertray on the C2) and a few other bits - mainly if it's had a new rear quarter as this is where spin damage will be.
As you say, best to drive cabs vs coupes. The cab is nice looking. Also, there are a few LHD Speedsters available for low-mid 20's if they appeal. They are nice cars, but not as much driver's car as RS, and some official parts prices (windscreen, hood etc) will probably be mental. Paul Stephens has a yellow one for 24k at paul-stephens-cars.co.uk
I'd recommend Northway Porsche in Reading for good value independent servicing, although I may start using Neil Bainbridge when I get my Porsche as he comes recommended from a C2 mate of mine. Henry at 911virgin.com? Well, I love his website, and I love the price of his cars, but I would take H himself with a large pinch of salt. He can be a bit unrealistic at times, and you need to inspect his cars for yourself. Some are good, others are tatty. He's worth a visit though - big farmhouse with all sorts of interesting cars lying around. Must be money in flogging Porkers!!!
Rgds
Domster
Cheers once again.
Strangely was myself looking at Esprits this summer, but decided against, mainly 'cos I'm a lanky git and I just don't seem to fit in them!
I'd be interested in an RS, but think they're just a bit out of my range at the moment pricewise. - Besides compared the the MGF I'm currently driving, even the standard 911 is going to feel pretty fast.
Seen the yellow speedster (yellow looks better on an Esprit if you ask me though...)
Got some mates here at work who use Ray Northway and they're very complimentary, so I guess I might start there servicingwise.
Still half the thinking in going for a porker is that you tend to get back a good chunk of what you paid for it (given you look after it well), so well who knows what in 3 years time, 993RS? (
yes please!!!)
Cheers domster, your advice is much appreciated.
Regds,
Rich
P.S. I love this website Ted
Strangely was myself looking at Esprits this summer, but decided against, mainly 'cos I'm a lanky git and I just don't seem to fit in them!
I'd be interested in an RS, but think they're just a bit out of my range at the moment pricewise. - Besides compared the the MGF I'm currently driving, even the standard 911 is going to feel pretty fast.
Seen the yellow speedster (yellow looks better on an Esprit if you ask me though...)
Got some mates here at work who use Ray Northway and they're very complimentary, so I guess I might start there servicingwise.
Still half the thinking in going for a porker is that you tend to get back a good chunk of what you paid for it (given you look after it well), so well who knows what in 3 years time, 993RS? (
yes please!!!) Cheers domster, your advice is much appreciated.
Regds,
Rich
P.S. I love this website Ted
tuscan_v8,
I agree with the looks and the rarity, Turbos do look fantastic. However I figure that I'm going to do a fair number of miles in the car, and need 2 services a year (at 6000 miles per service).
I figure that each service is going to cost a fair few quid on a 964 C2, and some more again on a Turbo.
Money that realistically for me is better spend on
I agree with the looks and the rarity, Turbos do look fantastic. However I figure that I'm going to do a fair number of miles in the car, and need 2 services a year (at 6000 miles per service).
I figure that each service is going to cost a fair few quid on a 964 C2, and some more again on a Turbo.
Money that realistically for me is better spend on
Glad to be of help, Rich.
I agree with tuscan_v8 regarding the looks of the Turbo... the 964 looks much better as a wide body. Get me a 3.8 RSR (Turbo bodied RS) and I'd be a happy man!
However, from a practical point of view the wide body isn't as chuckable and turbos cost more to run.
Mind you, the 964 C2 won't be overly cheap to service - they are 500 quid for some reason for a major service, whilst the 993 C2 is nearer 300. Strange.
Worth every penny though - it will be a real change from an MGF. The 964 C2 isn't much slower in standard form than my Lotus Carlton. Major performance, although the pedals will take getting used to!
Ray from Northway is a decent sort, as far as I've found. He's quite reasonable in terms of service prices, too.
Cheers
Domster
I agree with tuscan_v8 regarding the looks of the Turbo... the 964 looks much better as a wide body. Get me a 3.8 RSR (Turbo bodied RS) and I'd be a happy man!
However, from a practical point of view the wide body isn't as chuckable and turbos cost more to run.
Mind you, the 964 C2 won't be overly cheap to service - they are 500 quid for some reason for a major service, whilst the 993 C2 is nearer 300. Strange.
Worth every penny though - it will be a real change from an MGF. The 964 C2 isn't much slower in standard form than my Lotus Carlton. Major performance, although the pedals will take getting used to!
Ray from Northway is a decent sort, as far as I've found. He's quite reasonable in terms of service prices, too.
Cheers
Domster
Hi all, I'm SPEED, and I have a 93 RS america here in the U.S. . The C2 car is very under rated car and I have found that porsche did it so it wouldn't hurt the 993 car coming out next. My car now has 160,000 miles and looks very good and it has held up very well. I waited until it had 90,000 miles on it til I started making the right changes. My car has a chip, k&n filter, no mass air flow,a center bypass pipe, light weight flywheel and racing clutch. stainless brake lines and pagid racing pads { yes they squeal but they work } I have several friends with 3.3 turbos and 3.6 C2 1994 cars and the 3.3 can't beat in the quarter mile but, once I grab fifth gear, they come rolling by. As for any back road or racetrack time, I win all not even the 3.6 single turbo can catch me. I dynoed my car after changes and it pulled 250 hp at the rear wheels but, I didn't do it before I started. The factory sport susp. held up until about 65,000 miles for track work and 85,000 for street driving only. I have euro spec H&R springs and bilstein shocks and the front stress bar with front 22mm and 20mm rear sway bars that come stock on my car. It rides very good and I use my car for long trips and track day events. thats why the miles are so high. If you want a fun car, I have one. I like this web site and if you have anymore questions, I'm here. SPEEDRACER_RS@YAHOO.COM seeya.
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