administrators proposals
administrators proposals
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potato muncher

Original Poster:

613 posts

245 months

Wednesday 21st February 2007
quotequote all
got them in the post today, in them it says they are hopeful of a recovery of assets from the transaction with dom, that would be a great shame for you guys, they are hoping to sell tvr for in excess of £1.75 million, dosent sound a lot, creditors so far owed
£29,309,139.21 and still more to come. the liability due to pw may amount to £5,263,575
although this at the moment has been limited to £2,771,882.00
thats a lot of dilapidation. ns and a macedonian investments company trying to claim
£25 million. it dosent make good reading for all the genuine creditors

AlexRWD

1,254 posts

267 months

Wednesday 21st February 2007
quotequote all
Christ! Cannot see anyone wanting to buy this business

mgaut

774 posts

272 months

Wednesday 21st February 2007
quotequote all
potato muncher said:
it says they are hopeful of a recovery of assets from the transaction with dom


is that all the spares that were loaded off to Power ?

what "recovery of assets" ??

CiderwithCerbie

1,420 posts

297 months

Wednesday 21st February 2007
quotequote all
Excess of £25m creditors? Has someone not been paying their bills?
Exactly how much has Moleskins invested/lost, or was that just on paper?
rolleyes

Daftlad

3,324 posts

271 months

Wednesday 21st February 2007
quotequote all
CiderwithCerbie said:
Excess of £25m creditors? Has someone not been paying their bills?
Exactly how much has Moleskins invested/lost, or was that just on paper?
rolleyes

£25m is Moleskins asa ceditior I understand.

antonyj

5,254 posts

311 months

Wednesday 21st February 2007
quotequote all
CiderwithCerbie said:
Excess of £25m creditors? Has someone not been paying their bills?
Exactly how much has Moleskins invested/lost, or was that just on paper?
rolleyes


It seems the one thing he didnt invest was time and careful consideration....

abz

380 posts

259 months

Wednesday 21st February 2007
quotequote all
isn't an announcement due on friday??

oggs

8,817 posts

284 months

Wednesday 21st February 2007
quotequote all
Looks as clear as mud

sidewayz

2,681 posts

271 months

Wednesday 21st February 2007
quotequote all
If this is true then the Cosmonaut is poisoning the deal. The Macedonian company is probably NS claiming BA owe him the money ( there might be paperwork to prove it) which will certainly put other people off and allow him to reacquire the brand at which point the 25M resolves itself.
The key issue is the validity of the £25m, which the creditors will have assessed.

Not good news if true

Saxon

437 posts

280 months

Wednesday 21st February 2007
quotequote all
Hang on so let me understand this?

So SMolenski is claiming he is owed £25m?
Wheeler reckons he's owed £5m

And they want to sell it for £2million?

Why should SMolenski get anything - he put the money in - his own incompetence lost him his money - how can he regard that as a liability owing to him?

It would be like me gambling away £100 grand in a casino and then suing the casino for the money?

Can someone explain this in English - and quite why anyone would want to pay in effect £32 million for a defunct car firm that Smolenski overpaid £14million for when it was a lot healthier than it is now?

Saxon

david_s

7,960 posts

274 months

Wednesday 21st February 2007
quotequote all
sidewayz said:
If this is true then the Cosmonaut is poisoning the deal. The Macedonian company is probably NS claiming BA owe him the money ( there might be paperwork to prove it) which will certainly put other people off and allow him to reacquire the brand at which point the 25M resolves itself.
The key issue is the validity of the £25m, which the creditors will have assessed.

Not good news if true


The £25m is of academic interest only, it won't be repaid from the sale of the assets and won't be the responsibility of the new owners. The creditors (£25m included) will get a small percentage of their debt paid assuming there are funds left after the preferential creditors have been paid.

Interesting to see that the sale of TVR Power may be reversed, I did wonder how much money changed hands in the deal, where the money was paid and who the new shareholders were.

sidewayz

2,681 posts

271 months

Wednesday 21st February 2007
quotequote all
BA was a separate company with a contract to manufacture for NA.NA is claiming they owe him the £25M, which he would have to validate by producing evidence of the monies owed. No one knows the details but similar claims have been made in the past and similar tactics tried by very large companies. I believe ICI once stopped a takeover attempt by agreeing massive Pension benefits for the staff. The cost of delivering on the Pension deal put off the stalker at the time. Bloody desperate manoeuvre as you then have to service the agreement yourself.
The £5m claim by PW suggests that he might not have received all of his monies from NS. Either PW's contract was with what became called BA or NS manoeuvred the liability into BA in an attempt to avoid paying up.
One thing is for sure-the administrators are going to be earning their fee on this one.

Just my view of course

touching cloth

11,706 posts

269 months

Wednesday 21st February 2007
quotequote all
Saxon said:
stuff


A Ltd company is a separate legal entity. He, Smolensky, is not the same as the company, he is just the owner of the shares that make it up. If he put "additional" money in then that can be considered a directors loan and he has leant the Ltd company the money, he can then take that money out again (free of tax) should he so choose. The original money he spent to buy TVR will not be included in that figure, as that was effectively used to buy "the shares" from P.W. The breakdown of creditor amounts are just numbers, they will do nothing other than dictate the percentages each creditor might expect to recoup from the sale, i.e. simply speaking, if NS's share makes up 80% of the creditors then his cut of the proceeds from sale should likely be 80%, so if he pays £2m for the company now, he will get £1.6m back anyway as a creditor, so the trademark etc will cost him £400k. That is why he can probably afford to table a higher bid than most - it has been commented on however that the administrators could theoretically exclude his bid on various grounds.

I think that is pretty much how it works anyway.

im

34,302 posts

247 months

Wednesday 21st February 2007
quotequote all
david_s said:
Interesting to see that the sale of TVR Power may be reversed


Where is that mentioned?

david_s

7,960 posts

274 months

Wednesday 21st February 2007
quotequote all
im said:
david_s said:
Interesting to see that the sale of TVR Power may be reversed


Where is that mentioned?


Line 1 post 1:

'got them in the post today, in them it says they are hopeful of a recovery of assets from the transaction with dom'

tvr power

1,076 posts

236 months

Wednesday 21st February 2007
quotequote all
david_s said:
sidewayz said:
If this is true then the Cosmonaut is poisoning the deal. The Macedonian company is probably NS claiming BA owe him the money ( there might be paperwork to prove it) which will certainly put other people off and allow him to reacquire the brand at which point the 25M resolves itself.
The key issue is the validity of the £25m, which the creditors will have assessed.

Not good news if true


The £25m is of academic interest only, it won't be repaid from the sale of the assets and won't be the responsibility of the new owners. The creditors (£25m included) will get a small percentage of their debt paid assuming there are funds left after the preferential creditors have been paid.

Interesting to see that the sale of TVR Power may be reversed, I did wonder how much money changed hands in the deal, where the money was paid and who the new shareholders were.


Tvr Power is soley owned by myself i am the only share holder of the company, sale of Tvr Power will not be reversed unless someone comes to me with a very large offer

Dom

sidewayz

2,681 posts

271 months

Wednesday 21st February 2007
quotequote all
Good for you Dom!

david_s

7,960 posts

274 months

Wednesday 21st February 2007
quotequote all
sidewayz said:
BA was a separate company with a contract to manufacture for NA.NA is claiming they owe him the £25M, which he would have to validate by producing evidence of the monies owed. No one knows the details but similar claims have been made in the past and similar tactics tried by very large companies. I believe ICI once stopped a takeover attempt by agreeing massive Pension benefits for the staff. The cost of delivering on the Pension deal put off the stalker at the time. Bloody desperate manoeuvre as you then have to service the agreement yourself.
The £5m claim by PW suggests that he might not have received all of his monies from NS. Either PW's contract was with what became called BA or NS manoeuvred the liability into BA in an attempt to avoid paying up.
One thing is for sure-the administrators are going to be earning their fee on this one.

Just my view of course


It's not a takeover, BA is in administration. It will be sold on with no debt and the new owners will have no obligations to the previous creditors.

david_s

7,960 posts

274 months

Wednesday 21st February 2007
quotequote all
tvr power said:
david_s said:
sidewayz said:
If this is true then the Cosmonaut is poisoning the deal. The Macedonian company is probably NS claiming BA owe him the money ( there might be paperwork to prove it) which will certainly put other people off and allow him to reacquire the brand at which point the 25M resolves itself.
The key issue is the validity of the £25m, which the creditors will have assessed.

Not good news if true


The £25m is of academic interest only, it won't be repaid from the sale of the assets and won't be the responsibility of the new owners. The creditors (£25m included) will get a small percentage of their debt paid assuming there are funds left after the preferential creditors have been paid.

Interesting to see that the sale of TVR Power may be reversed, I did wonder how much money changed hands in the deal, where the money was paid and who the new shareholders were.


Tvr Power is soley owned by myself i am the only share holder of the company, sale of Tvr Power will not be reversed unless someone comes to me with a very large offer

Dom



Pleased to hear it. Good luck with the future.

bertie

8,569 posts

314 months

Wednesday 21st February 2007
quotequote all
Sounds like someone will buy it for next to nothing and have a decent little business supplying spares and probably not make cars again.