Help! I would like to buy an Ultima purely for track days
Discussion
Hi guys,
First time i've dipped my toe in this forum, so please be gentle with me.
I am very keen to acquire an Ultima, specifically for track days. I have absolutely know clue about the cars other than what i've picked up on the Web.
Can you make any recommendations, what to buy, what not to buy, reliability, build quality - you know the usual novice questions etc.
In terms of interior space, i am quite a wide shouldered guy, i struggle to fit into my Carrera GT, but i put up with it - is the Ultima smaller? I know i should sit in one and do all the usual tyre kicking stuff, but i get a kick out of just buying a car 'blind', provided its coming from a reputable person/dealer.
Help please......
Regards.
First time i've dipped my toe in this forum, so please be gentle with me.
I am very keen to acquire an Ultima, specifically for track days. I have absolutely know clue about the cars other than what i've picked up on the Web.
Can you make any recommendations, what to buy, what not to buy, reliability, build quality - you know the usual novice questions etc.
In terms of interior space, i am quite a wide shouldered guy, i struggle to fit into my Carrera GT, but i put up with it - is the Ultima smaller? I know i should sit in one and do all the usual tyre kicking stuff, but i get a kick out of just buying a car 'blind', provided its coming from a reputable person/dealer.
Help please......
Regards.
Hi Carl,
I built mine for the Cannonball Run last year. I work in Product Develpment for the car firm known for having 'the car in front'! My co-builder is an aeronautical electronics engineer. I did structure/aesthetics, he did systems and wiring.
I think we did a fair job.
Anyway, I'm thinking of selling at the end of this year after a few track days and a European trip.
We tried to keep the car as standard as possible and have only changed the interior to suit my requirement to be more Supercar than striped out racer. Whilst the engine was being rebuilt in the states last year (see other posts for story), I decided to change the only other item that I felt let the car down - the gearbox. It now has been professionally rebuilt with a quaife ATB diff and new, longer 4th and 5th gears to hopefully - crack the 200mph barrier.
Engine is as Factory recommends, an American Speed SBC with 550bhp and 500 torques (as Clarkson says) - it'd carbed and spits 3ft flames on the overun.
Pics are here:
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?p=2&f=20&t=236149&h=0
Here is a taster -
As for advice - I'd say look for a builder who has spared no expense, stuck to std where possible, works for a car company and has a mate who wired the Concorde.
And naturally.............it has to be BLACK!!
Mail me if you want to have a fitting.
Lucky
I built mine for the Cannonball Run last year. I work in Product Develpment for the car firm known for having 'the car in front'! My co-builder is an aeronautical electronics engineer. I did structure/aesthetics, he did systems and wiring.
I think we did a fair job.
Anyway, I'm thinking of selling at the end of this year after a few track days and a European trip.
We tried to keep the car as standard as possible and have only changed the interior to suit my requirement to be more Supercar than striped out racer. Whilst the engine was being rebuilt in the states last year (see other posts for story), I decided to change the only other item that I felt let the car down - the gearbox. It now has been professionally rebuilt with a quaife ATB diff and new, longer 4th and 5th gears to hopefully - crack the 200mph barrier.
Engine is as Factory recommends, an American Speed SBC with 550bhp and 500 torques (as Clarkson says) - it'd carbed and spits 3ft flames on the overun.
Pics are here:
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?p=2&f=20&t=236149&h=0
Here is a taster -
As for advice - I'd say look for a builder who has spared no expense, stuck to std where possible, works for a car company and has a mate who wired the Concorde.
And naturally.............it has to be BLACK!!
Mail me if you want to have a fitting.
Lucky
Edited by luckyp on Thursday 8th February 09:51
Hello Carl
Irrespective of what specification car you go for if it is for track I would urge you to go for a dry sumped engine or at the very least a full race sump. The dry sump option is the more likely as most wet race sumps have clearance issues on the lower chassis member. Many Ultimas have the Accusump which is great protection but may not offer protection under sustained cornering. I have a wet race sump and it performed well in race conditions but it actually touches the chassis - not recommended long term and I am going for full dry sump option whilst the car is off the road.
Another ideal would be the fully rose jointed suspension. There are few cars with this option as it is not advertised and subtracts slightly from the comfort on the road. Under heavy use the suspension bushes wear quickly and can distort slightly. Also the wishbones on the rose-jointed setup are stronger. I had a rear wishbone bend during a race and if it is purely for track you may be tempted to try slicks which would put even more strain on them. This upgrade could always be done later at a cost of just over £2k.
Whatever specification you go for I am sure you will not be disappointed and you do not need to go for the most powerful option as the track is a great equaliser and huge BHP may only give you a minimal advantage down the straight. I find the Ultima is a relatively easy car to drive on track due to the low down torque of the big V8.
Good luck – go for it
Irrespective of what specification car you go for if it is for track I would urge you to go for a dry sumped engine or at the very least a full race sump. The dry sump option is the more likely as most wet race sumps have clearance issues on the lower chassis member. Many Ultimas have the Accusump which is great protection but may not offer protection under sustained cornering. I have a wet race sump and it performed well in race conditions but it actually touches the chassis - not recommended long term and I am going for full dry sump option whilst the car is off the road.
Another ideal would be the fully rose jointed suspension. There are few cars with this option as it is not advertised and subtracts slightly from the comfort on the road. Under heavy use the suspension bushes wear quickly and can distort slightly. Also the wishbones on the rose-jointed setup are stronger. I had a rear wishbone bend during a race and if it is purely for track you may be tempted to try slicks which would put even more strain on them. This upgrade could always be done later at a cost of just over £2k.
Whatever specification you go for I am sure you will not be disappointed and you do not need to go for the most powerful option as the track is a great equaliser and huge BHP may only give you a minimal advantage down the straight. I find the Ultima is a relatively easy car to drive on track due to the low down torque of the big V8.
Good luck – go for it
Chewy said:
Another ideal would be the fully rose jointed suspension. There are few cars with this option as it is not advertised and subtracts slightly from the comfort on the road.
A bit of an urban myth that rose jointed suspension gives a more harsh ride than bushes on an Ultima at least. Gman took me out for a spin at LM in 2005 and I could not tell the difference. I wish that I had chosen this option now.
GTWayne said:
A bit of an urban myth that rose jointed suspension gives a more harsh ride than bushes on an Ultima at least.
I was told this (is a myth) by the factory, also app. rose joints are quieter? - was a 'tres expensive' upgrade tho...
Edited by v8owner on Thursday 8th February 14:12
carl carrera said:
Are any of you large guys - what are your experiences.
Carl, I am 5'9" ish and weigh almost 250lb and am fairly stocky with broad shoulders and a fat head (so my wife has just laughingly pointed out to me) and find the Ultima to be a tight but comfortable fit. The standard factory seats are wider than your usual bucket seat and I find that although my shoulders do not fit inside the wings of the seat, they are not noticeably uncomfortable. I don't know but I would imagine that your GT is a fairly snug fit with the only extra room available being horizontally by virtue of the lack of roof. If you have a long body then have you considered a CanAm?
With regards to the experiences had so far, mine are few I am afraid being due to the fact that I have only had my car on the road since Xmas but already I can see that ingress will not become an episode to relish. Only a small point but I can not wear my watch when I drive the GTW as because I wear it on my right wrist, it hits the roll bar, not an issue for most I know but I am very fond of my Tag and nearly had a mild coronary upon discovering this potential disaster.
If you are concerned that you may be on the 'too large to be comfortable side' why not take luckyp up on his kind offer and have a trial fitting? At least if the Ultima is not for you then you will know sooner than later and can invest your effort in something more fruitful?
GTWayne said:
carl carrera said:
Are any of you large guys - what are your experiences.
Carl, I am 5'9" ish and weigh almost 250lb and am fairly stocky with broad shoulders and a fat head (so my wife has just laughingly pointed out to me) and find the Ultima to be a tight but comfortable fit. The standard factory seats are wider than your usual bucket seat and I find that although my shoulders do not fit inside the wings of the seat, they are not noticeably uncomfortable. I don't know but I would imagine that your GT is a fairly snug fit with the only extra room available being horizontally by virtue of the lack of roof. If you have a long body then have you considered a CanAm?
With regards to the experiences had so far, mine are few I am afraid being due to the fact that I have only had my car on the road since Xmas but already I can see that ingress will not become an episode to relish. Only a small point but I can not wear my watch when I drive the GTW as because I wear it on my right wrist, it hits the roll bar, not an issue for most I know but I am very fond of my Tag and nearly had a mild coronary upon discovering this potential disaster.
If you are concerned that you may be on the 'too large to be comfortable side' why not take luckyp up on his kind offer and have a trial fitting? At least if the Ultima is not for you then you will know sooner than later and can invest your effort in something more fruitful?
Cheers mate for that - same height as you so no worries in the head department. I too wear my watch on my right wrist - what is it about 250 pounders? Is the water ingress a common issue? The GT is snug, my back does not fit into the seat but merely rests on the edges, and my passengers tend to have to be size zeros if they want a lift, otherwise a perfect place to be. Reading the previous postings on rose joints versus standard stuff, do you have an opinion?
regards.
carl carrera said:
Guys
Thanks alot for the initial advice. My appetite is truly whetted.
Are any of you large guys - what are your experiences. Is there a 'wide' seat option?
Lucky, how much would i have to offer for a car such as yours (built to such exacting standards!)?
regards
Carl
Thanks alot for the initial advice. My appetite is truly whetted.
Are any of you large guys - what are your experiences. Is there a 'wide' seat option?
Lucky, how much would i have to offer for a car such as yours (built to such exacting standards!)?
regards
Carl
I agree with Wayne, the seats are wide I would say. I'm 5,10 and 196lbs. I fit with ease and after a 900 mile single journey last year had no aches whatsoever.
Did I mention the fully integrated DVD player, European full map navigation, rear view camera and 6 speaker audio? No?
I'll pop you a mail with the asking price Carl.
Pete.
Carl,
If it is to be used predominantly on the track, are you really going to be bothered by a little water ingress (only experienced upon opening the doors)?
With regards to the rose joints, I would have to say that they must be a better bet for track work but don't have any practical experience to corroborate this.
If it is to be used predominantly on the track, are you really going to be bothered by a little water ingress (only experienced upon opening the doors)?
With regards to the rose joints, I would have to say that they must be a better bet for track work but don't have any practical experience to corroborate this.
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