Thoughts on this would be much appreciated...
Discussion
Without going into too much detail (due to a legal case) I'd appreciate some serious thoughts/previous experiences on the following scenario:
You're looking for a 997C2S and see mine advertised for lets say £60k. You view/test drive the car and want to go ahead with the purchase. Before shaking hands on the price you ask me whether the car has any history of damage. I freely admit that someone 3 months ago reversed into the front of the car causing a cracked bumper, broken panel mounts, the front plastic undertray cracked. The damage cost exactly £2,200 to fix and was done through my local OPC by one of their approved workshops. I have all the paperwork to show this.
The warranty, etc are in no way affected, the damage was only slight and only to the panels and as part of the fix the car was given a thorough (suspension, alignment, etc etc) check by the OPC and approved. However, yes its true that if you trace the history of the car through the OPC it will say that the car has been in for accident damage repairs.
So.... what would you do? The car is perfect and before hearing about the damage you were happy with the £60k price. Would you think "no problem the car itself is sound and OPC approved" or would you think "the car is sound with no problems but as it definitely has had some previous damage I need a discount". If the second, how much discount would you want?
Any dealers, please feel free to comment on this as well.
You're looking for a 997C2S and see mine advertised for lets say £60k. You view/test drive the car and want to go ahead with the purchase. Before shaking hands on the price you ask me whether the car has any history of damage. I freely admit that someone 3 months ago reversed into the front of the car causing a cracked bumper, broken panel mounts, the front plastic undertray cracked. The damage cost exactly £2,200 to fix and was done through my local OPC by one of their approved workshops. I have all the paperwork to show this.
The warranty, etc are in no way affected, the damage was only slight and only to the panels and as part of the fix the car was given a thorough (suspension, alignment, etc etc) check by the OPC and approved. However, yes its true that if you trace the history of the car through the OPC it will say that the car has been in for accident damage repairs.
So.... what would you do? The car is perfect and before hearing about the damage you were happy with the £60k price. Would you think "no problem the car itself is sound and OPC approved" or would you think "the car is sound with no problems but as it definitely has had some previous damage I need a discount". If the second, how much discount would you want?
Any dealers, please feel free to comment on this as well.
In all honesty, hearing about the accident would put me off a bit.
Though, if its HPI clear, and as you say, can be shown to be fully repaired proffessionally, I might still go ahead with the sale, though I wouldn't be paying top dollar for the car, it would have to be a 'good deal' at 60k in the first place, or come down a little to the 'good deal' for me to go ahead..
Though, if its HPI clear, and as you say, can be shown to be fully repaired proffessionally, I might still go ahead with the sale, though I wouldn't be paying top dollar for the car, it would have to be a 'good deal' at 60k in the first place, or come down a little to the 'good deal' for me to go ahead..
HPI will always be clear in this case - Porsche would know about it if you sold to them, as details would be held on record
If it goes in for a warranty inspection, could the punter find out that way i.e. if he find out from OPC of the damage, rather than you, what else could you be hiding - certainly something that would go through my mind
Personally, i wouldnt EXPECT a discount, but it would certainly be a bargaining tool
If it goes in for a warranty inspection, could the punter find out that way i.e. if he find out from OPC of the damage, rather than you, what else could you be hiding - certainly something that would go through my mind
Personally, i wouldnt EXPECT a discount, but it would certainly be a bargaining tool
PorkScratching said:
Without going into too much detail (due to a legal case) I'd appreciate some serious thoughts/previous experiences on the following scenario:
You're looking for a 997C2S and see mine advertised for lets say £60k. You view/test drive the car and want to go ahead with the purchase. Before shaking hands on the price you ask me whether the car has any history of damage. I freely admit that someone 3 months ago reversed into the front of the car causing a cracked bumper, broken panel mounts, the front plastic undertray cracked. The damage cost exactly £2,200 to fix and was done through my local OPC by one of their approved workshops. I have all the paperwork to show this.
The warranty, etc are in no way affected, the damage was only slight and only to the panels and as part of the fix the car was given a thorough (suspension, alignment, etc etc) check by the OPC and approved. However, yes its true that if you trace the history of the car through the OPC it will say that the car has been in for accident damage repairs.
So.... what would you do? The car is perfect and before hearing about the damage you were happy with the £60k price. Would you think "no problem the car itself is sound and OPC approved" or would you think "the car is sound with no problems but as it definitely has had some previous damage I need a discount". If the second, how much discount would you want?
Any dealers, please feel free to comment on this as well.
You are free to ask what you want, and before you've agreed on the price the buyer is free to offer what he wants. You are right to admit/give previous history, I would want to know and it can influence price: factory paint is always better IMO. You're looking for a 997C2S and see mine advertised for lets say £60k. You view/test drive the car and want to go ahead with the purchase. Before shaking hands on the price you ask me whether the car has any history of damage. I freely admit that someone 3 months ago reversed into the front of the car causing a cracked bumper, broken panel mounts, the front plastic undertray cracked. The damage cost exactly £2,200 to fix and was done through my local OPC by one of their approved workshops. I have all the paperwork to show this.
The warranty, etc are in no way affected, the damage was only slight and only to the panels and as part of the fix the car was given a thorough (suspension, alignment, etc etc) check by the OPC and approved. However, yes its true that if you trace the history of the car through the OPC it will say that the car has been in for accident damage repairs.
So.... what would you do? The car is perfect and before hearing about the damage you were happy with the £60k price. Would you think "no problem the car itself is sound and OPC approved" or would you think "the car is sound with no problems but as it definitely has had some previous damage I need a discount". If the second, how much discount would you want?
Any dealers, please feel free to comment on this as well.
To establish a suitable discount by using a third party, I guess chatting to an OPC/indy saleman may be the way to go.
Is £60k a good price for your car? I`m asking rather than stirring up a hornet`s nest. I have no knowledge of your car so impossible to say. My gut feel is that it does sound all the money for a private sale vehicle (and please don`t let`s get sidelined into the selling privately / trade debate - I think we can take it as read that someone buying privately wants to think they`ve had their pound of flesh for taking the risk / doing the legwork). We`ve got a massive spec 2005 997S, 20k mls coming this/next week that will be going on the site at £56k pink price (I think) and just sold another huge spec `04 car (10k mls) which was on the site at £57k pink price.
As for the car being worth less, in theory no it isn`t, £2,200 isn`t going to do a great deal more than replace a front p/u and providing the work is done well it shouldn`t be an issue, that said it is a fairly new car and people will convincing themselves they are buying a new car.
Henry
As for the car being worth less, in theory no it isn`t, £2,200 isn`t going to do a great deal more than replace a front p/u and providing the work is done well it shouldn`t be an issue, that said it is a fairly new car and people will convincing themselves they are buying a new car.
Henry
Henry,
I only used £60k as an example price (I realistically think my car's worth about £53k - £54k). I was hoping to find out people's reactions in this situation would be and what kind of discount they'd be looking for.
The reason for asking is actually quite simple (again without going into details). As part of my insurance I get free legal cover and I have been assigned an extremely aggressive solicitor. He has already pursued the person who hit my car (who lied about the incident and otherwise has been a pain) and has successfully recovered my full excess.
He is now also pursuing the person's insurance company (and failing that the person directly) for diminution on my car. Based on his experience he thinks he can get 5-8% (or more) of the market value of the car back to me in cash. I have to admit that to me this sounds very aggressive but as the legal cover is free (and I admit the person really annoyed me in this incident) I've given my full blessing.
I had a quick chat with my local OPC who said that as the car is fully OPC approved it would not have any effect on the price of the car in their eyes (same as any warranty fix for example) but off the record he agreed that trying to sell privately people would most likely be put off.
I have no intention to sell my car for at least the next few years anyway by which time the whole incident will likely be irrelevant due to depreciation, etc but I could be looking at a £3k - £6k cheque coming my way soon.
Just wanted to check if this was realistic or whether my solicitor is just messing about claiming huge fees from my insurance company.
Cheers - Erik
I only used £60k as an example price (I realistically think my car's worth about £53k - £54k). I was hoping to find out people's reactions in this situation would be and what kind of discount they'd be looking for.
The reason for asking is actually quite simple (again without going into details). As part of my insurance I get free legal cover and I have been assigned an extremely aggressive solicitor. He has already pursued the person who hit my car (who lied about the incident and otherwise has been a pain) and has successfully recovered my full excess.
He is now also pursuing the person's insurance company (and failing that the person directly) for diminution on my car. Based on his experience he thinks he can get 5-8% (or more) of the market value of the car back to me in cash. I have to admit that to me this sounds very aggressive but as the legal cover is free (and I admit the person really annoyed me in this incident) I've given my full blessing.
I had a quick chat with my local OPC who said that as the car is fully OPC approved it would not have any effect on the price of the car in their eyes (same as any warranty fix for example) but off the record he agreed that trying to sell privately people would most likely be put off.
I have no intention to sell my car for at least the next few years anyway by which time the whole incident will likely be irrelevant due to depreciation, etc but I could be looking at a £3k - £6k cheque coming my way soon.
Just wanted to check if this was realistic or whether my solicitor is just messing about claiming huge fees from my insurance company.
Cheers - Erik
Edited by PorkScratching on Wednesday 17th January 12:37
Just a thought, but wouldn't it be better to work out the difference between you selling it privately and you being forced to sell it to a dealer?
There are a lot of 997s out there, and to be honest, if I heard about the damage, I'd be more likely to just walk away and buy a 'perfect' car than push for a discount on yours.
After a few months of people not wanting to buy your car, you may be forced into accepting what some dealer offers.
Good luck with everything.
There are a lot of 997s out there, and to be honest, if I heard about the damage, I'd be more likely to just walk away and buy a 'perfect' car than push for a discount on yours.
After a few months of people not wanting to buy your car, you may be forced into accepting what some dealer offers.
Good luck with everything.
Your solicitor is right to persue the other side for diminuition in value - however, he will need to produce an engineers report affirming the loss in question is appropriate for the vehicle. With most specialist marques its a head of claim that tends to be seen. However, given that the work was done by Porsche Approved Garage and warranted by them - I would have thought diminuition would be negligible - it tends to be reserved for cars where parts can`t be matched and where bodyshop technology restricted the ability to repair back to original manufacturing standards.
In terms of disclosing the incident - there is no obligation on you as a private seller to say anything - it won`t be on a register so unless your Porsche garage discloses this; how is the potential buyer going to know?
In terms of disclosing the incident - there is no obligation on you as a private seller to say anything - it won`t be on a register so unless your Porsche garage discloses this; how is the potential buyer going to know?
Just a thought, but this is the type of insurance claiming only really has one final result, putting up the price of everyone's insurance??
If the car has been made right, what's the real issue? Lot's of cars are bent before they reach the dealers 'new' (I look out over the docks in Southampton and you'd be amazed!).
If the car has been made right, what's the real issue? Lot's of cars are bent before they reach the dealers 'new' (I look out over the docks in Southampton and you'd be amazed!).
Edited by speedyellow on Wednesday 17th January 15:26
PorkScratching said:
I freely admit that someone 3 months ago reversed into the front of the car causing a cracked bumper, broken panel mounts, the front plastic undertray cracked. The damage cost exactly £2,200 to fix and was done through my local OPC by one of their approved workshops. I have all the paperwork to show this.
bolt on, bolt off parts - nothing structural or worth worrying about
discount? you've got to be joking!
You would be hard pushed to find a car that hasn’t had any paint work due to stone chips or bumper scuffs etc if a door or rear wing had been replaced, I would walk. New bumper, no problem.
When I have sold cars back to OPC's they have asked me to sign a declaration to confirm that car hasn’t sustained any body damage. Yet, most never declare their cars have suffered any damage when selling to a punter.
I witnessed this first hand when the OPC bumped my new car. When I asked if it had been damaged, they denied any knowledge. Funnily enough, when I phoned there body shop, I was told the front wind and OS door were in primer!
When I have sold cars back to OPC's they have asked me to sign a declaration to confirm that car hasn’t sustained any body damage. Yet, most never declare their cars have suffered any damage when selling to a punter.
I witnessed this first hand when the OPC bumped my new car. When I asked if it had been damaged, they denied any knowledge. Funnily enough, when I phoned there body shop, I was told the front wind and OS door were in primer!
IMO you should and can claim for the depreciation of your car due to damage repairs.
The cars not worth as much as an untouched example, and therefore worth less. Why should that come out of your pocket.
Id have thought your in line for about £3k.
You can tyhen keep schtum when you sell.
Sounds like you've got the right guy.
Don't forget to "drink" him when youre done.
You may need him again.
The cars not worth as much as an untouched example, and therefore worth less. Why should that come out of your pocket.
Id have thought your in line for about £3k.
You can tyhen keep schtum when you sell.
Sounds like you've got the right guy.
Don't forget to "drink" him when youre done.
You may need him again.
If you ring a friendly OPC they will advise you of the parts ordered for the car - if i found out this had occured and the vendor hadnt told me i would be a little put off (especiallly since i would have asked if they had been any prangs)
Dont know anybody that would pay this osrt of money privately and not put the leg work into a few extra checks over and above HPI
Dont know anybody that would pay this osrt of money privately and not put the leg work into a few extra checks over and above HPI
It's worth bearing in mind that any second hand 996, 997 or whatever viewed at an OPD has almost certainly had the front PU replaced and other paint blemishes removed.
If you look at the paint shop at the HO in Reading there's a queue of cars waiting to be prepared prior to going to either Guildford or wherever.
Discount - no way!
If you look at the paint shop at the HO in Reading there's a queue of cars waiting to be prepared prior to going to either Guildford or wherever.
Discount - no way!
mogul said:
It's worth bearing in mind that any second hand 996, 997 or whatever viewed at an OPD has almost certainly had the front PU replaced and other paint blemishes removed.
If you look at the paint shop at the HO in Reading there's a queue of cars waiting to be prepared prior to going to either Guildford or wherever.
Discount - no way!
If you look at the paint shop at the HO in Reading there's a queue of cars waiting to be prepared prior to going to either Guildford or wherever.
Discount - no way!
Yep, turn the story around: Your buyer will get a NEW FRONT PU FOR FREEEEEEEE...
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