Which Ferrari is good as my first?!
Discussion
Hi all,
I'm considering the purchase of my first Ferrari - maybe a 328, 355 or a 456 (hard tops only) - can anyone comment on any of the following points or suggest a point of reference?:
Servicing - Maranello or a back street "specialist",
and how often/how much?
Any specific problems to look out for?
Insurance (would be a low milage "toy") where to look for quotes?
Best colour for resale (just in case!). Would prefer the rarer Rosso/tan combo. myself?
Track days - how hard are they on the Marque?
Thanks
Rob
I'm considering the purchase of my first Ferrari - maybe a 328, 355 or a 456 (hard tops only) - can anyone comment on any of the following points or suggest a point of reference?:
Servicing - Maranello or a back street "specialist",
and how often/how much?
Any specific problems to look out for?
Insurance (would be a low milage "toy") where to look for quotes?
Best colour for resale (just in case!). Would prefer the rarer Rosso/tan combo. myself?
Track days - how hard are they on the Marque?
Thanks
Rob
I'm considering the purchase of my first Ferrari - maybe a 328, 355 or a 456 (hard tops only) - can anyone comment on any of the following points or suggest a point of reference?
328 would be least costly in every respect (providing you get a good one), relatively easy engine, the V12s can ruin you in the blink of an eye. Also not going to be devalued by independent servicing.
Servicing - Maranello or a back street "specialist",
and how often/how much?
328 £595, 355 £1195, 456 £ifyouneedtoask... Full services at an independent including cambelts. 328/355 need oil and filters at 3000miles/six months, tune up and check up every 15000, big job every 30k. The 328 can have most work done with the engine in situ. Independents are fine for older cars, FFSH helps values of new cars.
Any specific problems to look out for?
Earliest 355s had cylinder liner issues and dodgy oxygen sensors, best avoided pre 96.
Insurance (would be a low milage "toy") where to look for quotes?
Again, 328 least expensive. Classic policy eligable. Can't give an idea of price, don't know enough about you, but try www.heritage-quote.co.uk for insurance or www.sureterm.co.uk. The FOC can also help with insurance.
Best colour for resale (just in case!). Would prefer the rarer Rosso/tan combo. myself?
Doesn't matter that much, just avoid anything peculiar (took R Atkinson months to sell the christmas tree 456)
Track days - how hard are they on the Marque?
Very, I would say a no-no in a 456. If you're going down the trackday route there might be something to be said for a less expensive 328 and a trackday car (308Gt4 maybe)
You're looking at two different types of car there, so perhaps start by looking at what you really want.
The 328/355 are more nimble sports cars, the 456 more a GT. 355s are still adept at mile munching though, and are quite chunky so less "sporting" perhaps - I own a Caterham to give you an idea of my benchmark. Still an absolutely superb drive though so please don't read negativity into that.
The big factor for me was my size. At 6'4" I couldn't comfortably drive a 328 (kept knocking it out of gear and found the driving position unmanagable for more than 15mins). As a result I waited before taking the plunge until I could afford a 355.
328 will depreciate the least but could cost if you get a dog. It could also be hampered by lots of annoying niggles (electrics, leaks, rust...??) which I would have thought could easily sour your first taste(so if going this route, get it thoroughly checked and get a good one).
355 will cost much more in initial outlay and still has a bit of depreciation in it, but it's achingly pretty (probably the prettiest of the modern Ferraris IMO), goes like stink, can be had with a very good warranty and they're regarded as pretty reliable (the later ones). But then I'm a bit biased
Colour is personal choice, but it's hard to fulfil a Ferrari dream and not do Rosso Corsa. I think 355s look good in red, silver, black and yellow. 328s scrub the yellow.
I love the way the 456 looks but didn't need 4 seats so didn't delve too much. Probably the most expensive of the three to run by far. Am also not convinced about them in red - I think more subtle colours show the lines much better (again, that's very much personal choice).
550s fall into the wide price bracket you're talking. I used to hate the looks but they've grown on me a bit. Will probably be as expensive as a 456 to run.
I'll no doubt take the 355 on track at some point, but to be honest I have little need to. The Caterham is my track tool and will run rings round any of the above Ferraris on pretty much any circuit. If you want track day fun it might be an idea to think about having a specific track tool and reserve the Ferrari for fast road use? Certainly less upsetting if you ever have an off.
Don't rule out looking at the main dealers. They're not shed loads more expensive than the non-franchised types in my experience and there's a bit of comfort in buying from them. I had excellent service from Graypaul.
If you have any more specific questions, feel free to mail me. I bought mine 21/12/02 and have loved every minute. I grin inanely just seeing it in my parking space! You will not regret buying one if you have even the remotest whiff of petrol in your veins.
Andy
PS I'm sure minor services in a 355 are every 6k miles/12mths. That said, frequent oil changes are not a bad thing...
The 328/355 are more nimble sports cars, the 456 more a GT. 355s are still adept at mile munching though, and are quite chunky so less "sporting" perhaps - I own a Caterham to give you an idea of my benchmark. Still an absolutely superb drive though so please don't read negativity into that.
The big factor for me was my size. At 6'4" I couldn't comfortably drive a 328 (kept knocking it out of gear and found the driving position unmanagable for more than 15mins). As a result I waited before taking the plunge until I could afford a 355.
328 will depreciate the least but could cost if you get a dog. It could also be hampered by lots of annoying niggles (electrics, leaks, rust...??) which I would have thought could easily sour your first taste(so if going this route, get it thoroughly checked and get a good one).
355 will cost much more in initial outlay and still has a bit of depreciation in it, but it's achingly pretty (probably the prettiest of the modern Ferraris IMO), goes like stink, can be had with a very good warranty and they're regarded as pretty reliable (the later ones). But then I'm a bit biased
Colour is personal choice, but it's hard to fulfil a Ferrari dream and not do Rosso Corsa. I think 355s look good in red, silver, black and yellow. 328s scrub the yellow.
I love the way the 456 looks but didn't need 4 seats so didn't delve too much. Probably the most expensive of the three to run by far. Am also not convinced about them in red - I think more subtle colours show the lines much better (again, that's very much personal choice).
550s fall into the wide price bracket you're talking. I used to hate the looks but they've grown on me a bit. Will probably be as expensive as a 456 to run.
I'll no doubt take the 355 on track at some point, but to be honest I have little need to. The Caterham is my track tool and will run rings round any of the above Ferraris on pretty much any circuit. If you want track day fun it might be an idea to think about having a specific track tool and reserve the Ferrari for fast road use? Certainly less upsetting if you ever have an off.
Don't rule out looking at the main dealers. They're not shed loads more expensive than the non-franchised types in my experience and there's a bit of comfort in buying from them. I had excellent service from Graypaul.
If you have any more specific questions, feel free to mail me. I bought mine 21/12/02 and have loved every minute. I grin inanely just seeing it in my parking space! You will not regret buying one if you have even the remotest whiff of petrol in your veins.
Andy
PS I'm sure minor services in a 355 are every 6k miles/12mths. That said, frequent oil changes are not a bad thing...
Got a Dino 308 GT4 early January and whilst I'm now looking for something more modern, it is addictive to drive.
As someone else said, you'll find yourself smiling as you drive and you'll love the sounds too.
If you do go an entry level model - I'd certainly consider the 308 GT4.
It wasn't a model that I wanted initially but it looks great in silver!
Good luck.
As someone else said, you'll find yourself smiling as you drive and you'll love the sounds too.
If you do go an entry level model - I'd certainly consider the 308 GT4.
It wasn't a model that I wanted initially but it looks great in silver!
Good luck.
A rebuild of all the engines since the 328 can easily top £1500. Per cylinder 
A 328 can be rebuilt by a specialist for 4-5K. A hell of a lot, but not 18k !!! Every component of the 456 is extremely costly, a front end bump could easily top 20k to sort, strangely enough the insurance premiums reflect this.
One of the advantages of a 328 (can you tell I regret selling ours) is that the bits have a level of solidity that most Ferraris lack. Buy a good one from a specialist and it should provide reliable transport without needing space shuttle levels of maintenance. It's also done all the depreciating it's going to and may even appreciate over time.
A 328 can be rebuilt by a specialist for 4-5K. A hell of a lot, but not 18k !!! Every component of the 456 is extremely costly, a front end bump could easily top 20k to sort, strangely enough the insurance premiums reflect this. One of the advantages of a 328 (can you tell I regret selling ours) is that the bits have a level of solidity that most Ferraris lack. Buy a good one from a specialist and it should provide reliable transport without needing space shuttle levels of maintenance. It's also done all the depreciating it's going to and may even appreciate over time.
mrsd said: A rebuild of all the engines since the 328 can easily top £1500. Per cylinder
One of the advantages of a 328 (can you tell I regret selling ours) is that the bits have a level of solidity that most Ferraris lack. Buy a good one from a specialist and it should provide reliable transport without needing space shuttle levels of maintenance. It's also done all the depreciating it's going to and may even appreciate over time.
Mrsd, I've been thinking about a 308 for a while now, and it looks like there far more 328's available at only a little more. I have been a little put off 328's by some of the press reports at the time (and indeed subsequently) saying the handling's a bit nasty at the limit. Really wouldn't want to be disappointed by the handling of my first Ferrari... can you (or anyone else) lend any opinion on the matter...
You're asking a very broad question and the devil's in the detail. First thing I'd suggest is browse the archives here & on FerrariChat for a wide variety of information on ferrari ownership. Main cost of ownership, as with most cars, is depreciation.
308/328: purchase price 25-35Kish (haven't looked recently). Generally regarded as a good place to start, with plenty of specialists/parts around. Relatively easy to work on, and if you are mechanically competent there's a lot you can do yourself.Not massively quick by todays' standards but very pretty & a lot of fun. If you are tall you may not fit. One of my neighbours has one and he claims it costs him 1K per year to run inc. insurance. Unlikely to depreciate a lot but I suspect they will nonetheless depreciate as the models above come down in price, but it's + or - a few grand at most. Most of them are red, so chances are you would end up with a red one.
355: purchase price 50K+. Budget 3K for a cam belt + service (?), 1K or so for a normal service I think. Weak spots are valve guides on pre-96,cracks in rear deck on the GTB, catalysts made of cream cheese and probably a few others. Limited mileage insurance for me ca. £800 a year but I haven't shopped around yet. Bedrock price probably 35-40K mark so they have some more depreciation in them. Again, most of them are red anyway.
456: Purchase price 45K+. My servicing costs for the last 2.5 yrs & 9K miles 3.6K (includes cambelt). No real difference in cost between independent & main dealer in my experience. Insurance (classic policy 5K miles) 1K per year. Check for seized bits and windows that don't seal properly. I've also added a power warranty which costs 1K per year over a 2 yr period; this covers my nightmare scenario of the engine detonating (50K+), heading skywards via the bonnet (kevlar, 18K). Depreciates like a stone through a wet paper bag and I have little doubt they will depreciate further. V12s in general, and 4 seaters in particular, suffer eye-watering depreciation. Go in with your eyes open.
Colour is a matter of opinion. My 456 is red and I have a massive preference for that colour, but others prefer silver, black or blue. I once saw one bloke acting suspiciously around my car when it was parked at Brands Hatch, and when I went along to check, I found he was doing something disgusting (and highly personal
) while looking at it. It takes all sorts, and it's got to be *your* preference, since you will probably spend more time looking at it than driving it.
While you may buy a Ferrari with your heart, which one you choose is generally a financial decision, and to enjoy owning one, you need to be able to drive it in the knowledge that you can fix something if it breaks, otherwise it'll put years on you.
308/328: purchase price 25-35Kish (haven't looked recently). Generally regarded as a good place to start, with plenty of specialists/parts around. Relatively easy to work on, and if you are mechanically competent there's a lot you can do yourself.Not massively quick by todays' standards but very pretty & a lot of fun. If you are tall you may not fit. One of my neighbours has one and he claims it costs him 1K per year to run inc. insurance. Unlikely to depreciate a lot but I suspect they will nonetheless depreciate as the models above come down in price, but it's + or - a few grand at most. Most of them are red, so chances are you would end up with a red one.
355: purchase price 50K+. Budget 3K for a cam belt + service (?), 1K or so for a normal service I think. Weak spots are valve guides on pre-96,cracks in rear deck on the GTB, catalysts made of cream cheese and probably a few others. Limited mileage insurance for me ca. £800 a year but I haven't shopped around yet. Bedrock price probably 35-40K mark so they have some more depreciation in them. Again, most of them are red anyway.
456: Purchase price 45K+. My servicing costs for the last 2.5 yrs & 9K miles 3.6K (includes cambelt). No real difference in cost between independent & main dealer in my experience. Insurance (classic policy 5K miles) 1K per year. Check for seized bits and windows that don't seal properly. I've also added a power warranty which costs 1K per year over a 2 yr period; this covers my nightmare scenario of the engine detonating (50K+), heading skywards via the bonnet (kevlar, 18K). Depreciates like a stone through a wet paper bag and I have little doubt they will depreciate further. V12s in general, and 4 seaters in particular, suffer eye-watering depreciation. Go in with your eyes open.
Colour is a matter of opinion. My 456 is red and I have a massive preference for that colour, but others prefer silver, black or blue. I once saw one bloke acting suspiciously around my car when it was parked at Brands Hatch, and when I went along to check, I found he was doing something disgusting (and highly personal
) while looking at it. It takes all sorts, and it's got to be *your* preference, since you will probably spend more time looking at it than driving it. While you may buy a Ferrari with your heart, which one you choose is generally a financial decision, and to enjoy owning one, you need to be able to drive it in the knowledge that you can fix something if it breaks, otherwise it'll put years on you.
456mgt, who is your warranty secured through ? We have had paint work probs. and the words Chocolate and Teapot came to mind when dealing with the warranty co.
You're way out on servicing for the V8s 456. Servicing costs fairly reasonable on a 355 (for a sports/supercar) but it's the extras that'll kill you. Tyres, clutches (every 10-15k miles), Cats are ruinous.
trackdemon: On the limit handling is quite good IMO, better still with modern shocks and careful setup, and your chances of finding the limits on the public road are slim to nil. In comparison to an older Porsche (964 or earlier) the handling is very neutral and well resolved on the limit.
>> Edited by mrsd on Wednesday 2nd April 13:37
>> Edited by mrsd on Wednesday 2nd April 13:38
You're way out on servicing for the V8s 456. Servicing costs fairly reasonable on a 355 (for a sports/supercar) but it's the extras that'll kill you. Tyres, clutches (every 10-15k miles), Cats are ruinous.
trackdemon: On the limit handling is quite good IMO, better still with modern shocks and careful setup, and your chances of finding the limits on the public road are slim to nil. In comparison to an older Porsche (964 or earlier) the handling is very neutral and well resolved on the limit.
>> Edited by mrsd on Wednesday 2nd April 13:37
>> Edited by mrsd on Wednesday 2nd April 13:38
Depends whether a well known popular music performer puts it backwards, uninsured, through a fire tender two minutes after buying it or not. That put the costs up a bit 
Seriously - v. costly in period and independents aren't keen now, any work tends to necessitate engine out. We sold ours because it was far too expensive to maintain.
Seriously - v. costly in period and independents aren't keen now, any work tends to necessitate engine out. We sold ours because it was far too expensive to maintain.
mrsd said: 456mgt, who is your warranty secured through ?
Ferrari UK- it's a power 2 warranty
mrsd said:You're way out on servicing for the V8s 456. Servicing costs fairly reasonable on a 355 (for a sports/supercar)
Not in my experience. V8 costs are in line with the actual costs of running my 360, and a fairly detailed breakdown of costs of others' 355s. And it depends what you regard as 'reasonable'!
Kevin
trackdemon said:I have been a little put off 328's by some of the press reports at the time (and indeed subsequently) saying the handling's a bit nasty at the limit.
Christ! I've just seen this- Steve- it's April 2nd mate. Must be a parallel universe or something: Steve 'make sure the side windows are clean or I can't see where I'm going' Trackdemon worried about extreme handling :shakesheadindisbelief: If you pull the same stuff in a Ferrari as you do in your TVR you'll be collecting your badgers loyalty card whichever one you choose!
It all depends on how much money you want to spend, and what exactly you want from the car. There's no easy way of saying which is the best for you and your circumstances.
Personally think the 308/328/348/355 series are pretty decent cars. 456 great but can be bloody pricy. I'd be scared everytime I drove it without a warranty. Don't really like the looks of the 348, but from the front it looks like a 355 (i.e. a good thing
). They are, however, excellent value for money and a modern looking Ferrari. Neighbour has one and it hasn't caused him too many problems,and he uses it alot and hard. With prices being as they are, and if running costs where similar (doubt it though) I'd prefer a 348 to a 328/308. But I would like to have a 328 one day, perhaps rebodied as a 288. Not instead, but together with another modern supercar thingy.
Not sure about the servicing costs there Mrs D. but I guess it depends on the independents you are referring to. A full cambelt AND mileage service should be circa £3K from authorised dealer, without any bargaining or discounting. For information, Verdi's do the cambelt on its own for £700 (not sure if its inc or exc VAT), Maranellos do it for £1600 exc VAT. Add the cost of the mileage service to it at £1,500 from Maranellos, although they will reduce that if you do both at the same time. They told me £2,600 exc VAT.
Bear in mind you might not need the cambelt if its been done this year if you are keeping it less than 2 years; 3rd year you'd have to factor it into the resale.
Service intervals depends on the colour of your service book, which basically relates to the year of your car. Pre Aug 96 cars are first at 6,250 and then all at 6,250. Post Aug 96 are first at 6,250 then at 20,000km intervals (i.e. 12,500 intervals). Cambelt every 3 years or at the 31,250 intervals. Was told its not striclty necessary for oil changes outside of servicing, apparently it uses enough oil (I think mine uses about 1 litre per 3,000 miles or so).
Annual service is done if you've not achieved the mileage intervals. It costs around £500, although I've heard you can have two types of annual service, one is a bit more as plugs are also changed. I'll hazard a guess that it relates to cars that are very low mileage per annum, and don't get a big service even on the second year. I guess the cost is somewhere between annual and mileage service.
My experience has been something like just under £4K in less than one year on expenses. Got some bits done on warranty(otherwise it would have cost me just over £6K
), but others are wear and tear etc. Usually something needs doing when in for a service anyway (my experience so just MO). You'll need a respray on the front valance, and don't forget you HAVE to get a tubi too. Cats, bypass valves, manifolds, sticky throttle linkages are among the well known and true weaknesses of the 355.
IMO the warranty given by Ferrari dealers (either the Formula or the POWER) are good and so far all claims have been honoured without any fuss whatsoever. Only thing is they do not cover the exhaust systems etc. So bypass valves (they fail very often) are not covered.
Thanks for taking the time to read this enormous post, but it was a relief from work. I haven't even checked this forum recently, so had to get it out of my system 
Personally think the 308/328/348/355 series are pretty decent cars. 456 great but can be bloody pricy. I'd be scared everytime I drove it without a warranty. Don't really like the looks of the 348, but from the front it looks like a 355 (i.e. a good thing
). They are, however, excellent value for money and a modern looking Ferrari. Neighbour has one and it hasn't caused him too many problems,and he uses it alot and hard. With prices being as they are, and if running costs where similar (doubt it though) I'd prefer a 348 to a 328/308. But I would like to have a 328 one day, perhaps rebodied as a 288. Not instead, but together with another modern supercar thingy. Not sure about the servicing costs there Mrs D. but I guess it depends on the independents you are referring to. A full cambelt AND mileage service should be circa £3K from authorised dealer, without any bargaining or discounting. For information, Verdi's do the cambelt on its own for £700 (not sure if its inc or exc VAT), Maranellos do it for £1600 exc VAT. Add the cost of the mileage service to it at £1,500 from Maranellos, although they will reduce that if you do both at the same time. They told me £2,600 exc VAT.
Bear in mind you might not need the cambelt if its been done this year if you are keeping it less than 2 years; 3rd year you'd have to factor it into the resale.
Service intervals depends on the colour of your service book, which basically relates to the year of your car. Pre Aug 96 cars are first at 6,250 and then all at 6,250. Post Aug 96 are first at 6,250 then at 20,000km intervals (i.e. 12,500 intervals). Cambelt every 3 years or at the 31,250 intervals. Was told its not striclty necessary for oil changes outside of servicing, apparently it uses enough oil (I think mine uses about 1 litre per 3,000 miles or so).
Annual service is done if you've not achieved the mileage intervals. It costs around £500, although I've heard you can have two types of annual service, one is a bit more as plugs are also changed. I'll hazard a guess that it relates to cars that are very low mileage per annum, and don't get a big service even on the second year. I guess the cost is somewhere between annual and mileage service.
My experience has been something like just under £4K in less than one year on expenses. Got some bits done on warranty(otherwise it would have cost me just over £6K
), but others are wear and tear etc. Usually something needs doing when in for a service anyway (my experience so just MO). You'll need a respray on the front valance, and don't forget you HAVE to get a tubi too. Cats, bypass valves, manifolds, sticky throttle linkages are among the well known and true weaknesses of the 355. IMO the warranty given by Ferrari dealers (either the Formula or the POWER) are good and so far all claims have been honoured without any fuss whatsoever. Only thing is they do not cover the exhaust systems etc. So bypass valves (they fail very often) are not covered.
Thanks for taking the time to read this enormous post
, but it was a relief from work. I haven't even checked this forum recently, so had to get it out of my system
ninja_eli said:
Not sure about the servicing costs there Mrs D. but I guess it depends on the independents you are referring to. ... For information, Verdi's do the cambelt on its own for £700 (not sure if its inc or exc VAT)
Quote for the 355 service above was inclusive from Nick Cartwright. Main dealer perhaps I shouldn't name, but you can probably guess based on where we live
nevpugh308 said:
I once saw one bloke acting suspiciously around my car when it was parked at Brands Hatch, and when I went along to check, I found he was doing something disgusting (and highly personal
Ew ! Ew ! Ew ! Ew ! Ew !!! Oh yuk seriously ?!?
Oh yes! Once I'd sussed what was happening I carried on walking and pretended it wasn't mine. Not a lot you can say is there? I mean, asking him if he liked Ferrari's seemed a pretty redundant question. Just think Nev, something similar has probably happened to your car and you never knew- and there's you thinking they were fingerprints.....
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