Dilemma - 993 C2S or 996 Targa
Discussion
Hi,
First time I have posted on Piston Heads and also very new to the world of Porsche - so bear with me.
I have always wanted a 993 C2S, but i am in a slight dilemma. Most of the 993 C2Ss seem to be around £33k to £35 normally irrelevant of mileage. I have recently seen a C2S for around £30k which surprised me - as it seems considerably cheaper than the rest on the market. Would you be wary of one in this price bracket? I am assuming that this may be because it is Tiptronic? Can anyone tell me does this have a negative impact on the price? I have read a number of the forum discussions on tiptronics and there is a mixed response but most of the conversations are around the 996 tiptronic not the 993. How does the tiptronic box on a 993 stand up? Should they be avoided?
The next consideration is whether to go for a 996 over the 993. I know this is a personal thing and totally done to death on these forums. For a similar price of 35k it seems possible to get a good facelift example. Do people agree that the facelift actually makes the 996 look worse than pre-2002 versions? A slight improvement on the looks seems to be the 996 Targa facelift, again there seem to be good examples for around this price. Are Targa's less desirable than a standard C2 - are there any problems to be aware of? Does the glass roof take away anything from the ride and performance? Do Targa's tend to lose their value quicker?
Sorry for the ramblings. Probably just need to drive a few more and get on with it!
Cheers!
First time I have posted on Piston Heads and also very new to the world of Porsche - so bear with me.
I have always wanted a 993 C2S, but i am in a slight dilemma. Most of the 993 C2Ss seem to be around £33k to £35 normally irrelevant of mileage. I have recently seen a C2S for around £30k which surprised me - as it seems considerably cheaper than the rest on the market. Would you be wary of one in this price bracket? I am assuming that this may be because it is Tiptronic? Can anyone tell me does this have a negative impact on the price? I have read a number of the forum discussions on tiptronics and there is a mixed response but most of the conversations are around the 996 tiptronic not the 993. How does the tiptronic box on a 993 stand up? Should they be avoided?
The next consideration is whether to go for a 996 over the 993. I know this is a personal thing and totally done to death on these forums. For a similar price of 35k it seems possible to get a good facelift example. Do people agree that the facelift actually makes the 996 look worse than pre-2002 versions? A slight improvement on the looks seems to be the 996 Targa facelift, again there seem to be good examples for around this price. Are Targa's less desirable than a standard C2 - are there any problems to be aware of? Does the glass roof take away anything from the ride and performance? Do Targa's tend to lose their value quicker?
Sorry for the ramblings. Probably just need to drive a few more and get on with it!
Cheers!
hoochan said:
Hi,
First time I have posted on Piston Heads and also very new to the world of Porsche - so bear with me.
I have always wanted a 993 C2S, but i am in a slight dilemma. Most of the 993 C2Ss seem to be around £33k to £35 normally irrelevant of mileage. I have recently seen a C2S for around £30k which surprised me - as it seems considerably cheaper than the rest on the market. Would you be wary of one in this price bracket? I am assuming that this may be because it is Tiptronic? Can anyone tell me does this have a negative impact on the price? I have read a number of the forum discussions on tiptronics and there is a mixed response but most of the conversations are around the 996 tiptronic not the 993. How does the tiptronic box on a 993 stand up? Should they be avoided?
The next consideration is whether to go for a 996 over the 993. I know this is a personal thing and totally done to death on these forums. For a similar price of 35k it seems possible to get a good facelift example. Do people agree that the facelift actually makes the 996 look worse than pre-2002 versions? A slight improvement on the looks seems to be the 996 Targa facelift, again there seem to be good examples for around this price. Are Targa's less desirable than a standard C2 - are there any problems to be aware of? Does the glass roof take away anything from the ride and performance? Do Targa's tend to lose their value quicker?
Sorry for the ramblings. Probably just need to drive a few more and get on with it!
Cheers!
First time I have posted on Piston Heads and also very new to the world of Porsche - so bear with me.
I have always wanted a 993 C2S, but i am in a slight dilemma. Most of the 993 C2Ss seem to be around £33k to £35 normally irrelevant of mileage. I have recently seen a C2S for around £30k which surprised me - as it seems considerably cheaper than the rest on the market. Would you be wary of one in this price bracket? I am assuming that this may be because it is Tiptronic? Can anyone tell me does this have a negative impact on the price? I have read a number of the forum discussions on tiptronics and there is a mixed response but most of the conversations are around the 996 tiptronic not the 993. How does the tiptronic box on a 993 stand up? Should they be avoided?
The next consideration is whether to go for a 996 over the 993. I know this is a personal thing and totally done to death on these forums. For a similar price of 35k it seems possible to get a good facelift example. Do people agree that the facelift actually makes the 996 look worse than pre-2002 versions? A slight improvement on the looks seems to be the 996 Targa facelift, again there seem to be good examples for around this price. Are Targa's less desirable than a standard C2 - are there any problems to be aware of? Does the glass roof take away anything from the ride and performance? Do Targa's tend to lose their value quicker?
Sorry for the ramblings. Probably just need to drive a few more and get on with it!
Cheers!
Don't mind the grumpy bastards that take on a Vietnamesque 1000-yard-stare as soon as they read the same sort of post more than once. In answer to your 993 vs 996 question, you really need to decide this for yourself. Any debate on this subject entered into here, is likely to ejct you from the forum covered in facial hair, brasso, pipe ash, and a ton of invective from those who come over all PMT as soon as you mention RMS. Drive the two cars, and see which you like best. As you will have read here, a good 993 is probably a better investment and is a more quirky and characterful drive. The 996 is a better car, though arguably not put together with as much TLC.
The Targa is not everyone's cup of tea. It's my cup of tea, though, and I'm not alone - so come sale time, there'll be someone out there looking for what you have. The Tiptronic question is a whole heaving, bursting, filthy can of worms all on its own. Best not to go there. If your idea of a Porsche is an automatic, then off you go - it's Christmas. On the other hand, there is another school of thought; mostly occupied by me; that maintains with the sort of determination normally the preserve of Japanese pilots heading for U.S. aircraft carriers on a one-way trip, that Tiptronic is the single biggest heap o' shite since the Millenium Dome. In terms of residuals, if you find a really nice and covetable car, the chances are that you'll be better off with a manual. Someone will be along to disagree soon, so I suppose you're on your own with that one.
The cars you've mentioned - a 2002 996 Targa vs. a 993 C2S Tip. I'd go for the 996 out of those two. By 2002, the facelift had brought some decent improvements to the 996, and a lot of what's good about the 993 will have been somewhat diluted by the addition of the widebody and Tip. This is my opinion, of course, and it will be vehemently disputed shortly. The C2S certainly looks the part, so at least there's that. So you're on your own with that one, too I'm afraid. Go drive a few more cars and see how you get on.
Edited by loach on Thursday 21st December 12:05
sleep envy said:
hoochan said:
Probably just need to drive a few more and get on with it!
Aye.
Go see which YOU prefer.
Some people prefer the 993, others the 996 - best bet is to try a handful of both, and see which you prefer.
The same goes for the facelift, there isnt much in it, the engine is slightly bigger, with a little more power, and it has a glovebox, other than that, I didn't notice any real differences in the way it drove.
I love the Targa and set out to find a manual 993 Targa. In the end after driving a few (including 996) I went for the car l liked the best, in the right colour. Part basis for the decision was I thought a car that is 8 years plus old is bound to have problems and the problems are bound to cost money. So unless I loved that car when I first saw it, it was going to p1ss me off when the bills come in (and they do).
So I opted for a 993 because although it has faults, and it's 4WD (which people dislike) I love it. So when those bills come in I never think about selling it.
The other thing that put me off the Targa was the fact it had more handling similarities with the convertible. Not quite as firm on the road.
The only wrong decision is not to get one.
So I opted for a 993 because although it has faults, and it's 4WD (which people dislike) I love it. So when those bills come in I never think about selling it.
The other thing that put me off the Targa was the fact it had more handling similarities with the convertible. Not quite as firm on the road.
The only wrong decision is not to get one.
Cool - thanks for the advice so far. I reckon I am probably going to dismiss the 993 tiptronic, but won't rule out the tiptronic on the 996. It seems from reading these posts + and from other threads, that the 996 facelift 2002 onwards has some significant improvments over the first 996s. The only problem is that as 996s go, I profer the non-facelift versions. Oh well, it will be fun driving them all before making my choice. As they say, it is the anticipation that is actually the best part! Cheers.
hoochan said:
Cool - thanks for the advice so far. I reckon I am probably going to dismiss the 993 tiptronic, but won't rule out the tiptronic on the 996. It seems from reading these posts + and from other threads, that the 996 facelift 2002 onwards has some significant improvments over the first 996s. The only problem is that as 996s go, I profer the non-facelift versions. Oh well, it will be fun driving them all before making my choice. As they say, it is the anticipation that is actually the best part! Cheers.
I wouldnt say the 996 Facelift has any improvements - sure the engine is slightly bigger, but I doubt you'd notice, plus I've heard the 3.4 revs slightly better? Though I can't confirm or deny this.
If you prefer the original 996's, have a look at them (and a facelift for comparison), and depending on where you are, your welcome to come have a look at my early high miler 996 for a point of reference.
loach said:
Don't mind the grumpy bastards that take on a Vietnamesque 1000-yard-stare as soon as they read the same sort of post more than once. In answer to your 993 vs 996 question, you really need to decide this for yourself. Any debate on this subject entered into here, is likely to ejct you from the forum covered in facial hair, brasso, pipe ash, and a ton of invective from those who come over all PMT as soon as you mention RMS. Drive the two cars, and see which you like best. As you will have read here, a good 993 is probably a better investment and is a more quirky and characterful drive. The 996 is a better car, though arguably not put together with as much TLC.
The Targa is not everyone's cup of tea. It's my cup of tea, though, and I'm not alone - so come sale time, there'll be someone out there looking for what you have. The Tiptronic question is a whole heaving, bursting, filthy can of worms all on its own. Best not to go there. If your idea of a Porsche is an automatic, then off you go - it's Christmas. On the other hand, there is another school of thought; mostly occupied by me; that maintains with the sort of determination normally the preserve of Japanese pilots heading for U.S. aircraft carriers on a one-way trip, that Tiptronic is the single biggest heap o' shite since the Millenium Dome. In terms of residuals, if you find a really nice and covetable car, the chances are that you'll be better off with a manual. Someone will be along to disagree soon, so I suppose you're on your own with that one.
The cars you've mentioned - a 2002 996 Targa vs. a 993 C2S Tip. I'd go for the 996 out of those two. By 2002, the facelift had brought some decent improvements to the 996, and a lot of what's good about the 993 will have been somewhat diluted by the addition of the widebody and Tip. This is my opinion, of course, and it will be vehemently disputed shortly. The C2S certainly looks the part, so at least there's that. So you're on your own with that one, too I'm afraid. Go drive a few more cars and see how you get on.
Well put Loach - I am with you on this one - Drive both - Buy the one you prefer. The Loach speaks some good sense on this matter
I have to say that I found the 3.4 more flexible than the 3.6 too. And I was positively dissapointed with the 3.8 I drove for 24 hrs a few weeks ago-it seemed to wheeze at the top end (it only had 1900 miles on it though). I do however prefer the headlights of the facelift. (Mine is a 99 C2 by the way)
Live in London - therefore will not be using it during the week - mainly because I would not want to do short pointless journeys in it e.g. shopping trips, runs to the supermarket etc.. Will be keeping my VW for this everyday stuff. The Porsche will be used purely at the weekend for heading out of town, weekends away seeing mates and family. Also fancy a few driving holidays it in - probably over to France and Italy. Long winded way of saying it will just be used for fun...
Hi there
Very wise words spoken (Whay am I always too late!!) Buy the one you like the look off, enjoy driving the most and makes you feel good.
Ignore hairy arsed comments like "tips are for wives" etc
Have a go and buy your favourite.
I have a 996 tip and had no intention of buying one but once drove it, it would have taken a crow bar to get me out cos I though it was awesome.
Very wise words spoken (Whay am I always too late!!) Buy the one you like the look off, enjoy driving the most and makes you feel good.
Ignore hairy arsed comments like "tips are for wives" etc
Have a go and buy your favourite.
I have a 996 tip and had no intention of buying one but once drove it, it would have taken a crow bar to get me out cos I though it was awesome.
if you are buying a 993C2S tip, then i would say it is a bad idea. i had a 993C2 tip for two years, and it was pretty boring to drive, especially when compared against the 993C2 M/T i now have.
a 996 Targa is not a bad choice, if you want an all-rounder, especially with current prices so affordable.
Hi Hoochan and welcome. The old air cooled versus water cooled debate always sparks a few interesting comments on here. See attached
graeme73s said:
simonharrod911 said:
I cannot believe that people are seriously considering the views of ANY woman when making a motoring purchasing decision. Not just Graeme (your missus can't even drive a car fella), but the guy who was worried that his wife/girlfriend thought his 996 looked like a Boxster.
What is the world coming to when men will stop to consider the views of a woman when purchasing a car. Women have 4 functions :
1. Cooking (ok they're not as good as men, but we really can't be bothered can we).
2. Cleaning (can't compete even when I try quite hard).
3. Looking after kids (hands up, they are top drawer).
4. Sucking c0ck (nuff said).
Come on, this is the 21st century, I can't believe we're seriously listening to women's opinions about cars. The minute she asked for a test drive you should've smiled reassuringly and passed her a copy of Top Sante.
First of all we have just read through all of the posts and we have been laughing our heads off. I knew the post would spark some enthusiastic writing on a boring Monday. To all no offence taken and none given. Bear in mind this was her driving impression and not mine. The Porsche is for her not me. With the traffic on the 'A' roads down there it was not based on a performance comparison. It was entirely her choice as to which type of Porsche she would want. I just get to write the cheque. So it was honestly her view on driving a 911 Porsche for the very first time.
as for numbers one to four the following applies :
1. she can't cook, takeaways and eating out.
2. she has a cleaner.
3. no kids so don't have to worry about this one.
4. why do you think I've got to buy her a bloody Porsche anyway
Now that all said go to a reputable dealer independant or otherwise. Choose your selection of air cooled and water cooled motors and drive them back to back and form your own opinion. 993's will hold their money better, post 2000 996's have improved build quality, any newer car will always take a hit on depreciation. Oh by the way after a lot of deliberation she would rather go for a BMW X5. (back op 10 years ago, much easier to step in and out of.) Merry Xmas to one and all
graeme73s said:
simonharrod911 said:
I cannot believe that people are seriously considering the views of ANY woman when making a motoring purchasing decision. Not just Graeme (your missus can't even drive a car fella), but the guy who was worried that his wife/girlfriend thought his 996 looked like a Boxster.
What is the world coming to when men will stop to consider the views of a woman when purchasing a car. Women have 4 functions :
1. Cooking (ok they're not as good as men, but we really can't be bothered can we).
2. Cleaning (can't compete even when I try quite hard).
3. Looking after kids (hands up, they are top drawer).
4. Sucking c0ck (nuff said).
Come on, this is the 21st century, I can't believe we're seriously listening to women's opinions about cars. The minute she asked for a test drive you should've smiled reassuringly and passed her a copy of Top Sante.
First of all we have just read through all of the posts and we have been laughing our heads off. I knew the post would spark some enthusiastic writing on a boring Monday. To all no offence taken and none given. Bear in mind this was her driving impression and not mine. The Porsche is for her not me. With the traffic on the 'A' roads down there it was not based on a performance comparison. It was entirely her choice as to which type of Porsche she would want. I just get to write the cheque. So it was honestly her view on driving a 911 Porsche for the very first time.
as for numbers one to four the following applies :
1. she can't cook, takeaways and eating out.
2. she has a cleaner.
3. no kids so don't have to worry about this one.
4. why do you think I've got to buy her a bloody Porsche anyway
Now that all said go to a reputable dealer independant or otherwise. Choose your selection of air cooled and water cooled motors and drive them back to back and form your own opinion. 993's will hold their money better, post 2000 996's have improved build quality, any newer car will always take a hit on depreciation. Oh by the way after a lot of deliberation she would rather go for a BMW X5. (back op 10 years ago, much easier to step in and out of.) Merry Xmas to one and all
Like the advice Graeme!
Went to see my first C2S. Not a pretty experience. Car looked like it had accident damage in the past (the panels were definetely not aligned as they should). Service history seemed to show approx only 5k miles in the last four years which seems highly unlikely. Missing stamp from the first service. Not a good start... Keep on looking.
Keep you posted.
Went to see my first C2S. Not a pretty experience. Car looked like it had accident damage in the past (the panels were definetely not aligned as they should). Service history seemed to show approx only 5k miles in the last four years which seems highly unlikely. Missing stamp from the first service. Not a good start... Keep on looking.
Keep you posted.
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