FAO - Gadgeroonie
Discussion
Shouldn't be too tricky with a pre-wired loom, the fuel pump sits between the passenger seat and the wheel arch. with the clam open theres about 8 self tappers too remove then the fuel pump is cable tied in place. Not sure where the live is supplied from with the loom, the easiest place to pick it up would be the starter motor (the battery would be a bit trickier, but not immpossible)
Have a go if you get stuck just re-connect the old wires and take it to an expert!
Lloyd
Have a go if you get stuck just re-connect the old wires and take it to an expert!
Lloyd
LJM said:
Shouldn't be too tricky with a pre-wired loom, the fuel pump sits between the passenger seat and the wheel arch. with the clam open theres about 8 self tappers too remove then the fuel pump is cable tied in place. Not sure where the live is supplied from with the loom, the easiest place to pick it up would be the starter motor (the battery would be a bit trickier, but not immpossible)
Have a go if you get stuck just re-connect the old wires and take it to an expert!
Lloyd
Have a go if you get stuck just re-connect the old wires and take it to an expert!
Lloyd
Just curious. I've heard on several occassions instructions to get power from the starter. However, on US cars, there is a starter solenoid between the battery and starter. This means that the only time there is power at the starter is during cranking when the solenoid alloows power to go to it to engage the flywheel and turn the starter motor. Once the car starts and the key returns to the run position or the start button is released, there is no more power going to the starter. In the case of US cars, if you want to tap into direct power from the battery, you must connect to the battery side of the solenoid. Just wondering why there would be no solenoid on UK cars, if that is the case. Is this only on 2.5 litre cars? All 3R's and M400's in the US utilize a starter solenoid in the start circuit.
Craig
All starter motors AFAIK have a 12v switch wire to the solenoid plus a permanent 12v connection direct to the battery (Well via a fuse)! The solenoid wire is a small gauge as it does not switch any current where as the permanent connection should be a large wire.
HTH
HTH
Edited by LJM on Monday 18th December 23:34
LJM said:
All starter motors AFAIK have a 12v switch wire to the solenoid plus a permanent 12v connection direct to the battery (Well via a fuse)! The solenoid wire is a small gauge as it does not switch any current where as the permanent connection should be a large wire.
HTH
HTH
Edited by LJM on Monday 18th December 23:34
Partly correct. The large wire (cable)runs from the battery to the solenoid and then from the other side of the solenoid to the starter. The small wires on the solenoid are from the ignition switch that energize the solenoid, closing contact for the large red wires (cable) to complete the circuit to the starter. It is an external solenoid mounted near the battery. Once the car starts there is no longer 12 volts on the large wire (cable) at the starter. Check for 12 volts there with the car running. That's why I couldn't understand why people keep saying you can get 12 volts at the starter for the fuel pump. I had the same problem when installing the Faulks Intercooler fan wiring for my car. Matt's instructions said to take power off the starter for the fan, but there was no power there on my car. I had to get power from the battery side of the solenoid instead. Still wondering why there would be a difference between US cars and UK cars in that regard, if indeed there is a difference. When hooking up my intercooler fan, I just figured Matt's instructions were old and based on the 2.5 litre cars that perhaps did not have an external solenoid? We don't have any 2.5 litre cars here, so no way for us to tell.
Edited by caccobra on Monday 18th December 23:59
caccobra said:
LJM said:
All starter motors AFAIK have a 12v switch wire to the solenoid plus a permanent 12v connection direct to the battery (Well via a fuse)! The solenoid wire is a small gauge as it does not switch any current where as the permanent connection should be a large wire.
HTH
HTH
Edited by LJM on Monday 18th December 23:34
Partly correct. The large wire (cable)runs from the battery to the solenoid and then from the other side of the solenoid to the starter. The small wires on the solenoid are from the ignition switch that energize the solenoid, closing contact for the large red wires (cable) to complete the circuit to the starter. It is an external solenoid mounted near the battery. Once the car starts there is no longer 12 volts on the large wire (cable) at the starter. Check for 12 volts there with the car running. That's why I couldn't understand why people keep saying you can get 12 volts at the starter for the fuel pump. I had the same problem when installing the Faulks Intercooler fan wiring for my car. Matt's instructions said to take power off the starter for the fan, but there was no power there on my car. I had to get power from the battery side of the solenoid instead. Still wondering why there would be a difference between US cars and UK cars in that regard, if indeed there is a difference. When hooking up my intercooler fan, I just figured Matt's instructions were old and based on the 2.5 litre cars that perhaps did not have an external solenoid? We don't have any 2.5 litre cars here, so no way for us to tell.
Edited by caccobra on Monday 18th December 23:59
I can only vouch for my experience with cars, all of which have had a permenant 12v supply to the battery. It is definatley so with my 2.5 as i have used the starter to charge the battery when flat. I did however take the power for the fuel pump from the battery as it looks neater. I'm sure someone with a 3 or M400 will be along shorlty, Can't see why it would be different in the US though.
Lloyd
You are all right.
The solenoid is on the starter, and wired by an exceptionally short bit of cable to the actual starter. Most people wouldn't notice that there was a solenoid on the starter, they would just think it was part of the starter.
Follow the big fat cable from the battery to the "starter" and you'll find a permanent +ve on the starter. Yes, you could try and tap into the circuit post solenoid, but you'd need to be exceptionally smart (and hence I expect would know that is a really stupid place to take a feed from) and hence wouldn't.....
J
The solenoid is on the starter, and wired by an exceptionally short bit of cable to the actual starter. Most people wouldn't notice that there was a solenoid on the starter, they would just think it was part of the starter.
Follow the big fat cable from the battery to the "starter" and you'll find a permanent +ve on the starter. Yes, you could try and tap into the circuit post solenoid, but you'd need to be exceptionally smart (and hence I expect would know that is a really stupid place to take a feed from) and hence wouldn't.....
J
joust said:
You are all right.
The solenoid is on the starter, and wired by an exceptionally short bit of cable to the actual starter. Most people wouldn't notice that there was a solenoid on the starter, they would just think it was part of the starter.
Follow the big fat cable from the battery to the "starter" and you'll find a permanent +ve on the starter. Yes, you could try and tap into the circuit post solenoid, but you'd need to be exceptionally smart (and hence I expect would know that is a really stupid place to take a feed from) and hence wouldn't.....
J
The solenoid is on the starter, and wired by an exceptionally short bit of cable to the actual starter. Most people wouldn't notice that there was a solenoid on the starter, they would just think it was part of the starter.
Follow the big fat cable from the battery to the "starter" and you'll find a permanent +ve on the starter. Yes, you could try and tap into the circuit post solenoid, but you'd need to be exceptionally smart (and hence I expect would know that is a really stupid place to take a feed from) and hence wouldn't.....
J
If that's true, Justin, then there is a fundamental difference in starter/ignition wiring between US cars and UK cars. The US cars use the standard Ford external solenoid mounted on the battery side of the engine bay and there is therefore no constant power at the starter, only on the battery side of the solenoid. And on US cars, the separate solenoid is easily reached and easy to tap constant 12v power from. It must therefore be a different starter as well. Interesting. Now I understand why Matt's instructions called for power from the starter. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way on US versions.
Edited by caccobra on Tuesday 19th December 12:08
caccobra said:
If that's true, Justin, then there is a fundamental difference in starter/ignition wiring between US cars and UK cars. The US cars use the standard Ford external solenoid mounted on the battery side of the engine bay and there is therefore no constant power at the starter, only on the battery side of the solenoid. And on US cars, the separate solenoid is easily reached and easy to tap constant 12v power from. It must therefore be a different starter as well. Interesting.
Interesting. Must be different engine builds then (which isn't surprising). J
joust said:
caccobra said:
If that's true, Justin, then there is a fundamental difference in starter/ignition wiring between US cars and UK cars. The US cars use the standard Ford external solenoid mounted on the battery side of the engine bay and there is therefore no constant power at the starter, only on the battery side of the solenoid. And on US cars, the separate solenoid is easily reached and easy to tap constant 12v power from. It must therefore be a different starter as well. Interesting.
Interesting. Must be different engine builds then (which isn't surprising). J
US cars source their engines from AER, a company in Texas that is a high volume engine builder (www.aermanufacturing.com/). Where are they sourced from in the UK?
Edited by caccobra on Tuesday 19th December 12:12
saucyboy said:
Have decided I will do the pump myself (With help from a friend). What pump should I get i.e. M400 or 044?
Mine is a 3 and would be looking at power upgrades like exhaust and intercoller in the future if that helps decide?
James
Mine is a 3 and would be looking at power upgrades like exhaust and intercoller in the future if that helps decide?
James
Something to be aware of is that I am told the Motorsport pump is noisy.
The M400 pump is [obviously] good for 400bhp and should be more than enough for your 3 unless the mod's you're planning are going to take you beyond this.
I got a M400 pump [used] and loom upgrade kit for £150 from Yellowshed. Another option is you could get Gary to supply & fit for £250 IIRC.
H
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