Spraying FAQ's and general info.
Discussion
Hiya.
After doing more spraying and wondering what is what, I really need to read some decent well laid out information regarding 2k's, 1k's celly, acrylic and all the rest, how long they go off, what they do when they go off, what you can or can't put on top or mix with them... I really want to know what is happening chemically and what you can use and do with what.
I've searched high and low in Google and read pages of threads and things but can't just get what is essentially the "spraying bible"...
For example, today I used my base metallic silver on my wheels. I used thinners for celly at 1:1 and it seemed to go on nicely and gave a smooth finish. BUT, the base said 2k on it (not iso, but what does 2k mean if there is only one component?) or should I be using specific 2k thinners?
Arghhh, please help. There must be some source for this information. Even the supplier (local) seemed to not understand what he was selling when I bought it, and looked at me like I was speaking another language when I asked him the above!
Dave
After doing more spraying and wondering what is what, I really need to read some decent well laid out information regarding 2k's, 1k's celly, acrylic and all the rest, how long they go off, what they do when they go off, what you can or can't put on top or mix with them... I really want to know what is happening chemically and what you can use and do with what.
I've searched high and low in Google and read pages of threads and things but can't just get what is essentially the "spraying bible"...
For example, today I used my base metallic silver on my wheels. I used thinners for celly at 1:1 and it seemed to go on nicely and gave a smooth finish. BUT, the base said 2k on it (not iso, but what does 2k mean if there is only one component?) or should I be using specific 2k thinners?
Arghhh, please help. There must be some source for this information. Even the supplier (local) seemed to not understand what he was selling when I bought it, and looked at me like I was speaking another language when I asked him the above!
Dave
If the tin is for a 2k paint, it's meant to be activated with a hardener component.
Correct procedure would have been to both activate with a 2k hardener and reduce it with a 2k thinner. It may survive fine depending on the use the finish is put to and its topcoat, but for best durability, activate the paint.
Tol
Correct procedure would have been to both activate with a 2k hardener and reduce it with a 2k thinner. It may survive fine depending on the use the finish is put to and its topcoat, but for best durability, activate the paint.
Tol
Thanks Anatol...
I was confused to say the least.
All the tins say 2K on them, but I was sold (and told) that it was 2:1 base to thinners (two tins, each says 2K), and then I had a tin of clear and a tin of hardener, both said 2K on them, and the hardener said Isocyanate on it.
I have no idea what 2K means in isolation, just that it's two part (guess thinners and base), or does it always suggest a hardener to make it go off when it's called two pack?
I think I'll have to go back to the supplier and ask what he's actually sold me, because at the time he just said the base goes off within about 90 mins, and then I can apply the laquer, though that to me suggests the thinners he sold me activates the base?
I've heard of special thinners for the clears using iso's (I guess they need to be compatible chemically), but he sold me purely for the base.
I used celly thinners (normal!?) anyway, and the paint has gone off, and went on well too, so will just have to see.
Anyone recommend a GOOD paint supplier who gives documentation with their product and knows what they are talking about? The guy (looked like he did well with the car he drove (merc sl)) said ally flake silver would match my wheels but it hasn't anyway so thats £15 down the pan.
The actual OEM paint looks really metallic flakey, almost chromey... the stuff I have just sprayed looks so dull and not sparkly even after a dusting... the highlights are not as bright, the low-lights not as dark. The flakes are all but invisible...
Dave
I was confused to say the least.
All the tins say 2K on them, but I was sold (and told) that it was 2:1 base to thinners (two tins, each says 2K), and then I had a tin of clear and a tin of hardener, both said 2K on them, and the hardener said Isocyanate on it.
I have no idea what 2K means in isolation, just that it's two part (guess thinners and base), or does it always suggest a hardener to make it go off when it's called two pack?
I think I'll have to go back to the supplier and ask what he's actually sold me, because at the time he just said the base goes off within about 90 mins, and then I can apply the laquer, though that to me suggests the thinners he sold me activates the base?
I've heard of special thinners for the clears using iso's (I guess they need to be compatible chemically), but he sold me purely for the base.
I used celly thinners (normal!?) anyway, and the paint has gone off, and went on well too, so will just have to see.
Anyone recommend a GOOD paint supplier who gives documentation with their product and knows what they are talking about? The guy (looked like he did well with the car he drove (merc sl)) said ally flake silver would match my wheels but it hasn't anyway so thats £15 down the pan.
The actual OEM paint looks really metallic flakey, almost chromey... the stuff I have just sprayed looks so dull and not sparkly even after a dusting... the highlights are not as bright, the low-lights not as dark. The flakes are all but invisible...
Dave
2K refers to the paint being mixed from two components. The base and activator (which is the bit with the isocyanate in it, and causes the paint to 'go off' - ie cure chemically into a tough paint layer). It is also reduced for sprayability in the relevant shop conditions - the exact amount for best performance will vary with environmental factors, gun nozzle size, etc etc - that's where your 2k thinners come in - they're just thinners suitable for use in a 2k mix, not part of the 2k-ness of the paint itself.
Try Jawel in the west midlands for a supplier who'll talk you through the various intricacies of their products - they also sell very cheaply via an eBay portal...
Tol
Try Jawel in the west midlands for a supplier who'll talk you through the various intricacies of their products - they also sell very cheaply via an eBay portal...
Tol
Haha, still a bit confused why I only got a thinners (which didn't seem special) for my base, and was told it would go off on it's own.
I wonder if the shop owner just prints his own labels and they just say 2K on them, even if they are 1K...
Will take some pics of my wheel, an OEM wheel, and my tins of paint, and then you can get a better idea I'd imagine, than my not so great descriptions. I rekon there is a paint out there that is right, it's just finding it!
Thanks again for your time Anatol.
Dave
I wonder if the shop owner just prints his own labels and they just say 2K on them, even if they are 1K...
Will take some pics of my wheel, an OEM wheel, and my tins of paint, and then you can get a better idea I'd imagine, than my not so great descriptions. I rekon there is a paint out there that is right, it's just finding it!
Thanks again for your time Anatol.
Dave
The paint is a solution of pigment, binder, sparkle etc in a solvent to keep it liquid. Anything sprayed out in a volatile solvent (water included) will flash off if the solvent's evaporation conditions are met, leaving the paint components behind. With decent gun technique, that will leave an even layer of basecoat down. It won't be chemically cured though, and reexposure to solvent would dissolve it again instantly. If topcoated, and the topcoat bonds properly to it without activation, your paintjob will be essentially as tough as your topcoat, and you've probably not got a great deal to worry about.
Tol
Tol
First of all hi to all on this great forum!
In answer to some of your paint problems,
by using celly thinner the basecoat has dried to quick so the metalic flake has not
layed down propely so you are not getting the reflectabity as the flake is standing on
end, the basecoat is known through the trade as a 2k (two pack product) but only needs
thinning with a 2k thinner you will only use the catalist with the clear coat.
the problems you may get with using the wrong thinner is the clear coat not bonding
to the basecoat therfore the clear will peel off,
if you need any advice on paint mixing or spraying just ask
jimmyjawel
In answer to some of your paint problems,
by using celly thinner the basecoat has dried to quick so the metalic flake has not
layed down propely so you are not getting the reflectabity as the flake is standing on
end, the basecoat is known through the trade as a 2k (two pack product) but only needs
thinning with a 2k thinner you will only use the catalist with the clear coat.
the problems you may get with using the wrong thinner is the clear coat not bonding
to the basecoat therfore the clear will peel off,
if you need any advice on paint mixing or spraying just ask
jimmyjawel
Thanks again.
Main problem I had the other day was, can I just use the VOC mask for mixing/applying the base and base thinners, and only need to resort to plumbing across (pump and canister in seperate building, and use a long air line) and using air-fed mask and suit for the clear and activator (iso)...
I wasn't sure what was in the base... or if the thinners was specific, or if it had anything iso related in it, so used normal celly thinners (seemed to mix up and go on ok)...
I'm just having difficulty understanding where the word 2k is used and why. My base doesn't activate, it just goes off. So the thinners really isn't used to do anything with the base except thin it down. That is the case with cellulose but we don't call it two pack.
Confused
Dave
Main problem I had the other day was, can I just use the VOC mask for mixing/applying the base and base thinners, and only need to resort to plumbing across (pump and canister in seperate building, and use a long air line) and using air-fed mask and suit for the clear and activator (iso)...
I wasn't sure what was in the base... or if the thinners was specific, or if it had anything iso related in it, so used normal celly thinners (seemed to mix up and go on ok)...
I'm just having difficulty understanding where the word 2k is used and why. My base doesn't activate, it just goes off. So the thinners really isn't used to do anything with the base except thin it down. That is the case with cellulose but we don't call it two pack.
Confused
Dave
Gassing Station | Bodywork & Detailing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff