Coherent TVR Range of Cars
Discussion
Everyone 'knows' the answer, but noone is listening.
NS doesn't really give a f'k, he's alienated so many of the core TVR supporters, I'm not sure what he's planning.
Super expensive hyper cars built in Italy sounds about right at the moment. But I wouldn't hold your breath.
He's sold off everything from number plates (TVR 100) to the spraes and moulds. he wants nothing to do with the past!
Such a shame.
Tim
NS doesn't really give a f'k, he's alienated so many of the core TVR supporters, I'm not sure what he's planning.
Super expensive hyper cars built in Italy sounds about right at the moment. But I wouldn't hold your breath.
He's sold off everything from number plates (TVR 100) to the spraes and moulds. he wants nothing to do with the past!
Such a shame.
Tim
Good post Wayne, but I don't think "model range" is the main cause of TVR's downturn in sales.
The line up was;
Base level Tamora
Mid range Tuscan
Top end Sagaris
Which is about right, I do agree that they needed a 2+2 but the Cebera was too costly to produce. There was much speculation of a mark II Cebera on the drawing board, so i think they had the model range correct even the pricing imo was about right.
What was a mistake in my opinion was to drop the engine options (No not a SP6/V8 bashing - They are BOTH good, its just a lifestyle choice thang).
TVR decision to drop all engine choices bar the SP6 was a big risk, and when the SP6 showed a catastrophic design fault in its early life TVR had no contingency plan in place (ie alternative power plant) and then imho totally mismanaged the situation (PR, engine recalls etc. all lacking). Had they had another power unit they could have switched to whilst the SP6 was re-engineered there would never have been an issue.
I know that the competition has riased their game and there are more choices out there for a similar price, but i do beleive that instability (uncertain company future) and perceived unreliability (Which in part there was, but poor pr management of the situation and not giving customers rock solid mechanical insurance cover) are to blame for the rapid fall in sales.
Everything TVR did do to regain customer confidence was done in a reactionary manner and nothing was done in a proactive way, and again poor PR skills and too much management indecision and corporate U-turns on public display, are at the root of TVR’s problem. All IMHO of course.
The line up was;
Base level Tamora
Mid range Tuscan
Top end Sagaris
Which is about right, I do agree that they needed a 2+2 but the Cebera was too costly to produce. There was much speculation of a mark II Cebera on the drawing board, so i think they had the model range correct even the pricing imo was about right.
What was a mistake in my opinion was to drop the engine options (No not a SP6/V8 bashing - They are BOTH good, its just a lifestyle choice thang).
TVR decision to drop all engine choices bar the SP6 was a big risk, and when the SP6 showed a catastrophic design fault in its early life TVR had no contingency plan in place (ie alternative power plant) and then imho totally mismanaged the situation (PR, engine recalls etc. all lacking). Had they had another power unit they could have switched to whilst the SP6 was re-engineered there would never have been an issue.
I know that the competition has riased their game and there are more choices out there for a similar price, but i do beleive that instability (uncertain company future) and perceived unreliability (Which in part there was, but poor pr management of the situation and not giving customers rock solid mechanical insurance cover) are to blame for the rapid fall in sales.
Everything TVR did do to regain customer confidence was done in a reactionary manner and nothing was done in a proactive way, and again poor PR skills and too much management indecision and corporate U-turns on public display, are at the root of TVR’s problem. All IMHO of course.
The sad fact of the matter is that the initial post is living in dream land. Having looked at the figures while at the factory there is no tenable way in which to maintain the present engine range and achieve the prices above. You may understand this further if I say that TVR lost money on every T350 and Tamora ever sold. Its either higher prices or the binning of the six for all other than high end niche models.
It seems to me that most people don't think TVR's will sell outside the UK market? Why?
Not saying I like the scenario but isn't there a chance that NS could get production (of say... only Sag's) up and running in Italy, give a few cars to the German, French, Italian (etc) motoring press, and basically get orders for left hand drive TVR's over there? Maybe even quite a few orders....
I'm not sure it will ever happen, not to say it couldn't though...
I'd love everything to stay over here, for the workers to get their jobs back... For a coherent range of V8/Sp6 optioned TVR's... I just think its very unlikely thats all.
Not saying I like the scenario but isn't there a chance that NS could get production (of say... only Sag's) up and running in Italy, give a few cars to the German, French, Italian (etc) motoring press, and basically get orders for left hand drive TVR's over there? Maybe even quite a few orders....
I'm not sure it will ever happen, not to say it couldn't though...
I'd love everything to stay over here, for the workers to get their jobs back... For a coherent range of V8/Sp6 optioned TVR's... I just think its very unlikely thats all.
Edited by t350chunder on Wednesday 6th December 15:38
t350chunder said:
...give a few cars to the German, French, Italian (etc) motoring press, and basically get orders for left hand drive TVR's over there? Maybe even quite a few orders....
...
He could have given one to Clarkson and got him raving about TVR's again, but I assume NS ignored him and so TVR's got branded as Russian with the owner being a "business boy". ...
In the past Clarkson was supposed to be friends with Peter Wheeler and was highly complementary !
Daftlad said:
fly boy said:
TT Tim said:
He's sold off everything from number plates (TVR 100) to the spraes and moulds.
Tim
Tim
When did they sell TVR100?
Would have liked that back on the car again...
Now belongs to a certain Mr PRW ...he also has 100 TVR.
I thought it was at Mole Valley?
KirstM said:
Daftlad said:
fly boy said:
TT Tim said:
He's sold off everything from number plates (TVR 100) to the spraes and moulds.
Tim
Tim
When did they sell TVR100?
Would have liked that back on the car again...
Now belongs to a certain Mr PRW ...he also has 100 TVR.
I thought it was at Mole Valley?
Not as I understand it. The plates were owned by A N Other (not TVR Engineering) prior to Peter buying them back - that may have been Mole Valley.
Daftlad said:
fly boy said:
TT Tim said:
He's sold off everything from number plates (TVR 100) to the spraes and moulds.
Tim
Tim
When did they sell TVR100?
Would have liked that back on the car again...
Now belongs to a certain Mr PRW ...he also has 100 TVR.
Any idea if he has PRW100 or 100PRW too?
Hmm... seems he still has interest in TVR atleast. Does anyone know if he actually owns any himself?
I may be wrong but I would say traditionally TVRs are bought by enthusiasts rather than by city bonuses (which is probably what the large proportion of Ferrari and Porsche models are bought with).
Because TVRs were cheaper, they were achieveable for people on slightly over average wages or with a bit of savings (particularly the second hand market).
Where the Chimaera and Griffith did really well with was the use of an off the shelf engine. Anyone competent with the Rover V8 could sort the engine side out easily. A service was between £350 & £600 depending where you went. Insurance was a little bit more. So for the enthusiast you could be running your car on a budget of £1500 a year.
Nothing too nasty was going to happen with the engine if you treated it right, and you could get 100k+ out of it with proper maintenance.
You might have to forfeit a holiday or give up smoking or drinking but you could afford to run one!!
The problem I see for the TVR range (AJPV8 & Speed Six) is (taking reliability aside) that the engines seem to need more fettling, and servicing costs a lot more.
For a Cerbera the running costs are said to be double that of a Chimaera or Griff. For an enthusiast (like myself)3k a year for a second car is not so easy to find. I cannot see how a revised AJPV8 will sell in great enough numbers, when the Cerbera, the TVR legend that it is, was rumoured not to have turned in a profit for TVR.
I believe the Speed Six is a lot more to service than the old Rover V8's aswell.
So as TVR has gone their own way with their engines, it has pushed running costs away from the entry level end of the market.
Add to that the Speed Sixs troublesome early years, and you could be in for major outlay. That has put a lot of people off. £800-£1000 service P/A and a potential £6k engine rebuild.
The only thing that could save them is an entry level model with a crated in engine, with 100k miles plus reliability. Once people see that they can run a TVR without issues for high mileages and can be serviced for a reasonable price, then the orders would come back in.
At the moment TVRs current range, is sitting in a difficult position, not quite up with the prestigous marques like Porsche & Ferrari, but out of reach for people wanting to make the progression from Z4's, MX5's, S2000's and older TVR's.
Because TVRs were cheaper, they were achieveable for people on slightly over average wages or with a bit of savings (particularly the second hand market).
Where the Chimaera and Griffith did really well with was the use of an off the shelf engine. Anyone competent with the Rover V8 could sort the engine side out easily. A service was between £350 & £600 depending where you went. Insurance was a little bit more. So for the enthusiast you could be running your car on a budget of £1500 a year.
Nothing too nasty was going to happen with the engine if you treated it right, and you could get 100k+ out of it with proper maintenance.
You might have to forfeit a holiday or give up smoking or drinking but you could afford to run one!!
The problem I see for the TVR range (AJPV8 & Speed Six) is (taking reliability aside) that the engines seem to need more fettling, and servicing costs a lot more.
For a Cerbera the running costs are said to be double that of a Chimaera or Griff. For an enthusiast (like myself)3k a year for a second car is not so easy to find. I cannot see how a revised AJPV8 will sell in great enough numbers, when the Cerbera, the TVR legend that it is, was rumoured not to have turned in a profit for TVR.
I believe the Speed Six is a lot more to service than the old Rover V8's aswell.
So as TVR has gone their own way with their engines, it has pushed running costs away from the entry level end of the market.
Add to that the Speed Sixs troublesome early years, and you could be in for major outlay. That has put a lot of people off. £800-£1000 service P/A and a potential £6k engine rebuild.
The only thing that could save them is an entry level model with a crated in engine, with 100k miles plus reliability. Once people see that they can run a TVR without issues for high mileages and can be serviced for a reasonable price, then the orders would come back in.
At the moment TVRs current range, is sitting in a difficult position, not quite up with the prestigous marques like Porsche & Ferrari, but out of reach for people wanting to make the progression from Z4's, MX5's, S2000's and older TVR's.
BCA said:
Daftlad said:
fly boy said:
TT Tim said:
He's sold off everything from number plates (TVR 100) to the spraes and moulds.
Tim
Tim
When did they sell TVR100?
Would have liked that back on the car again...
Now belongs to a certain Mr PRW ...he also has 100 TVR.
Any idea if he has PRW100 or 100PRW too?
Hmm... seems he still has interest in TVR atleast. Does anyone know if he actually owns any himself?
He had a 3000m turbo - think he still has it.
bluebottle said:
Good post Wayne, but I don't think "model range" is the main cause of TVR's downturn in sales.
The line up was;
Base level Tamora
Mid range Tuscan
Top end Sagaris
Which is about right, I do agree that they needed a 2+2 but the Cebera was too costly to produce. There was much speculation of a mark II Cebera on the drawing board, so i think they had the model range correct even the pricing imo was about right.
What was a mistake in my opinion was to drop the engine options (No not a SP6/V8 bashing - They are BOTH good, its just a lifestyle choice thang).
TVR decision to drop all engine choices bar the SP6 was a big risk, and when the SP6 showed a catastrophic design fault in its early life TVR had no contingency plan in place (ie alternative power plant) and then imho totally mismanaged the situation (PR, engine recalls etc. all lacking). Had they had another power unit they could have switched to whilst the SP6 was re-engineered there would never have been an issue.
I know that the competition has riased their game and there are more choices out there for a similar price, but i do beleive that instability (uncertain company future) and perceived unreliability (Which in part there was, but poor pr management of the situation and not giving customers rock solid mechanical insurance cover) are to blame for the rapid fall in sales.
Everything TVR did do to regain customer confidence was done in a reactionary manner and nothing was done in a proactive way, and again poor PR skills and too much management indecision and corporate U-turns on public display, are at the root of TVR’s problem. All IMHO of course.
The line up was;
Base level Tamora
Mid range Tuscan
Top end Sagaris
Which is about right, I do agree that they needed a 2+2 but the Cebera was too costly to produce. There was much speculation of a mark II Cebera on the drawing board, so i think they had the model range correct even the pricing imo was about right.
What was a mistake in my opinion was to drop the engine options (No not a SP6/V8 bashing - They are BOTH good, its just a lifestyle choice thang).
TVR decision to drop all engine choices bar the SP6 was a big risk, and when the SP6 showed a catastrophic design fault in its early life TVR had no contingency plan in place (ie alternative power plant) and then imho totally mismanaged the situation (PR, engine recalls etc. all lacking). Had they had another power unit they could have switched to whilst the SP6 was re-engineered there would never have been an issue.
I know that the competition has riased their game and there are more choices out there for a similar price, but i do beleive that instability (uncertain company future) and perceived unreliability (Which in part there was, but poor pr management of the situation and not giving customers rock solid mechanical insurance cover) are to blame for the rapid fall in sales.
Everything TVR did do to regain customer confidence was done in a reactionary manner and nothing was done in a proactive way, and again poor PR skills and too much management indecision and corporate U-turns on public display, are at the root of TVR’s problem. All IMHO of course.
That's probably the best summary of the TVR situation I have read on PH
Tx 
.
Heres a thought;
If the current pricing would be profitable if sales were at the level they were around 2000/2001, all it would take is a management with a proven track record that the general public would have faith in...Ron Dennis, Frank Wiliams, Richard Branson there are many entrepreneurs out there who have public reputation that would get sales almost imediately imo. TVR doesn't have to die it has too much going for it, it just needs a major dose of public confidence to kick start it.
. Heres a thought;
If the current pricing would be profitable if sales were at the level they were around 2000/2001, all it would take is a management with a proven track record that the general public would have faith in...Ron Dennis, Frank Wiliams, Richard Branson there are many entrepreneurs out there who have public reputation that would get sales almost imediately imo. TVR doesn't have to die it has too much going for it, it just needs a major dose of public confidence to kick start it.
Daftlad said:
KirstM said:
Daftlad said:
fly boy said:
TT Tim said:
He's sold off everything from number plates (TVR 100) to the spraes and moulds.
Tim
Tim
When did they sell TVR100?
Would have liked that back on the car again...
Now belongs to a certain Mr PRW ...he also has 100 TVR.
I thought it was at Mole Valley?
Not as I understand it. The plates were owned by A N Other (not TVR Engineering) prior to Peter buying them back - that may have been Mole Valley.
Mole valley:
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