(Potentially) an important initiative
Discussion
PLEASE READ THIS EDITED POST BEFORE RESPONDING BY E-MAIL
Dear all,
I mentioned elsewhere that a close colleague knows someone quite well (former FD of one of our major motor manufacturers) who has an interest in potentially "saving the factory". To my mind the important thing is not so much the factory itself but giving the boys and girls who made our cars an outlet for their talents - ideally in the area but "so what" if not.
This colleague, a big supporter of British manufacturing himself (even owns several new and old MGs!), has seen the press coverage and photos that I sent him and heard some of the stories from me and I told him that a business in TVR's position might have succeeded if:
(i) all those contradictory press releases hadn't created such an atmosphere of uncertainty; and
(ii) they had been putting V8s (ideally proven ones, from whatever source) into beautiful cars, and catering for TVR fans who now have families by making at least a 2+2 as well as 2 seaters.
He really liked what he heard and asked if I could send him a few lines about these points.
Now, I can come up with some good lines of my own but am both busy right now and definitely NOT the recepticle of all TVR knowledge - I was impressed, for instance, with just how hard core the V8 crowd seemed yesterday.
So, people, please e-mail me at mjjcharlton@gmail.com your thoughts about what would make you buy something very similar to a TVR (different branding, naturally), along the above lines? It has been suggested to me that it would be a good idea not to post here because it may get messy - indeed I can see the potential for it to make investment less attractive, depending on what ends up being said on open forum!
There may be a good opportunity here to persuade someone with the clout to do something about it. I certainly don't think we have anything to lose by trying, so I look forward to your contributions.
Additionally, if you can assume that this chap would have a lot of credibility, which of you might consider investing along with him? I'd certainly consider it.
Dear all,
I mentioned elsewhere that a close colleague knows someone quite well (former FD of one of our major motor manufacturers) who has an interest in potentially "saving the factory". To my mind the important thing is not so much the factory itself but giving the boys and girls who made our cars an outlet for their talents - ideally in the area but "so what" if not.
This colleague, a big supporter of British manufacturing himself (even owns several new and old MGs!), has seen the press coverage and photos that I sent him and heard some of the stories from me and I told him that a business in TVR's position might have succeeded if:
(i) all those contradictory press releases hadn't created such an atmosphere of uncertainty; and
(ii) they had been putting V8s (ideally proven ones, from whatever source) into beautiful cars, and catering for TVR fans who now have families by making at least a 2+2 as well as 2 seaters.
He really liked what he heard and asked if I could send him a few lines about these points.
Now, I can come up with some good lines of my own but am both busy right now and definitely NOT the recepticle of all TVR knowledge - I was impressed, for instance, with just how hard core the V8 crowd seemed yesterday.
So, people, please e-mail me at mjjcharlton@gmail.com your thoughts about what would make you buy something very similar to a TVR (different branding, naturally), along the above lines? It has been suggested to me that it would be a good idea not to post here because it may get messy - indeed I can see the potential for it to make investment less attractive, depending on what ends up being said on open forum!
There may be a good opportunity here to persuade someone with the clout to do something about it. I certainly don't think we have anything to lose by trying, so I look forward to your contributions.
Additionally, if you can assume that this chap would have a lot of credibility, which of you might consider investing along with him? I'd certainly consider it.
Edited by cheeky on Monday 27th November 17:16
Edited by cheeky on Monday 27th November 18:17
I must say, it's a splendid idea and is one that crossed my mind.
Got anything more concrete you could say about it though? Needs to be a little more solid... like a portfolio and costings (could the workers help us out with obtaining some costs / records / estimates of start-up / venture capital that would be needed?)
Got anything more concrete you could say about it though? Needs to be a little more solid... like a portfolio and costings (could the workers help us out with obtaining some costs / records / estimates of start-up / venture capital that would be needed?)
It seems to me that there is strong support for both straight-six and V8 based sports cars.
'V8' is something that every little boy, American, and many old ladies understand. When people casually ask what's under the hood, "5-litre V8" is all you need to say.
A V6 engine is for a more discerning motorist; someone who really knows what they want and has good reasons.
Personally, I love the old Rover V8 mostly for the noise it makes. Threatening without being harsh. I understand the logic and heritage of a straight-6, but I can't give up that V8 rumble.
Would it be possible for a small manufacturer to profitably build a 2+2 with a choice of engine?
'V8' is something that every little boy, American, and many old ladies understand. When people casually ask what's under the hood, "5-litre V8" is all you need to say.
A V6 engine is for a more discerning motorist; someone who really knows what they want and has good reasons.
Personally, I love the old Rover V8 mostly for the noise it makes. Threatening without being harsh. I understand the logic and heritage of a straight-6, but I can't give up that V8 rumble.
Would it be possible for a small manufacturer to profitably build a 2+2 with a choice of engine?
V8Cerbera said:
I must say, it's a splendid idea and is one that crossed my mind.
Got anything more concrete you could say about it though? Needs to be a little more solid... like a portfolio and costings (could the workers help us out with obtaining some costs / records / estimates of start-up / venture capital that would be needed?)
Got anything more concrete you could say about it though? Needs to be a little more solid... like a portfolio and costings (could the workers help us out with obtaining some costs / records / estimates of start-up / venture capital that would be needed?)
I am pretty sure the man himself will have a better idea of those than the workers are likely to have but we can put them in touch with each other at the appropriate moment.
My colleague has been involved with quite a lot of new ventures, and we both work in investment banking of sorts, so he should be in a good position to investigate the sourcing of capital. I will also mention it to the few VC people that I know.
Please treat this as tentative at this stage - I am going on trust that my colleague isn't misrepresenting his contact's interest!
This is an issue of economics, not, I suspect, one of a buyout opportunity for anyone with the necessary dosh to get Comrade Smolenski out of the doo-dah he seems to have gotten himself into.
From afar, I am pretty convinced that our young Russian Oligarch (or whatever he is) went into TVR because he really wanted to, and that means that he wanted to make it work - possibly to become in his view Britain's Ferrari or Porsche. I, for one, don't believe he is stupid - naiive for sure, but not stupid.
So, what does he do? He's got a national treasure under his ownership, he spends not inconsiderable sums of his own money trying to up the levels of quality he sees as necessary to attract the kinds of buyers he thinks are on the edge of choosing between TVR and the others, he gets to a level of confidence that allows him to offer 3 year warranties on the cars - and then what happens?
People stopped buying them.
Fact is that other Countries are starting to understand that manufacturing is an important piece of their economic model and are offering all manner of inducements to attract those who wish to set up a manufactiruing base in their Countries. Italy is just one such example. If the announcement were about outsourcing to the Ukriane for example we'd all be nodding our heads in "wjat can we do about it kinda way" - but Italy!
In the UK anyone who indicates even the slightest tendencey to be interested in engineering (or even science in general for that matter) is immediately handed an anorak of some sort and branded a Geekie Wierdo. Show interest in how something has been manufactured at, say, a dinner party and, take it from me, you will watch them make excuses to leave your company quicker than if you had just told them you were carrying a bag full of Polonium 210, or that you loved your Grandpa whose name was Hitler.
TVR's tradegy is the result of a generation's indoctrination by a government that believes that a Degree in Social Studies is equivalent to one in Physics - this is what we are now living with and it has to be reversed. If it is not, then there is no hope for innovation left in this once great Country of innovators, we are just handing it over to the Countries who's vision still places a value upon it.
In the longer term, their vision will payoff, at the expense of the heritage we donated to it.
Wayne
From afar, I am pretty convinced that our young Russian Oligarch (or whatever he is) went into TVR because he really wanted to, and that means that he wanted to make it work - possibly to become in his view Britain's Ferrari or Porsche. I, for one, don't believe he is stupid - naiive for sure, but not stupid.
So, what does he do? He's got a national treasure under his ownership, he spends not inconsiderable sums of his own money trying to up the levels of quality he sees as necessary to attract the kinds of buyers he thinks are on the edge of choosing between TVR and the others, he gets to a level of confidence that allows him to offer 3 year warranties on the cars - and then what happens?
People stopped buying them.
Fact is that other Countries are starting to understand that manufacturing is an important piece of their economic model and are offering all manner of inducements to attract those who wish to set up a manufactiruing base in their Countries. Italy is just one such example. If the announcement were about outsourcing to the Ukriane for example we'd all be nodding our heads in "wjat can we do about it kinda way" - but Italy!
In the UK anyone who indicates even the slightest tendencey to be interested in engineering (or even science in general for that matter) is immediately handed an anorak of some sort and branded a Geekie Wierdo. Show interest in how something has been manufactured at, say, a dinner party and, take it from me, you will watch them make excuses to leave your company quicker than if you had just told them you were carrying a bag full of Polonium 210, or that you loved your Grandpa whose name was Hitler.
TVR's tradegy is the result of a generation's indoctrination by a government that believes that a Degree in Social Studies is equivalent to one in Physics - this is what we are now living with and it has to be reversed. If it is not, then there is no hope for innovation left in this once great Country of innovators, we are just handing it over to the Countries who's vision still places a value upon it.
In the longer term, their vision will payoff, at the expense of the heritage we donated to it.
Wayne
wparslow said:
This is an issue of economics, not, I suspect, one of a buyout opportunity for anyone with the necessary dosh to get Comrade Smolenski out of the doo-dah he seems to have gotten himself into.
Of course. And if you read my post you'll see it's not about buying Smolensky out at all. It's about making use of the assets that ae left behind, by giving the British TVR buying public what it wants.
wparslow said:
In the longer term, their vision will payoff, at the expense of the heritage we donated to it.
I hope it does - there's a big global market out there to chase. But the great thing is that success on both fronts is very possible.
Do you have something constructive to add? This is not intended to be a discussion thread but rather an invitation to send me thoughts that can be used in an (admittedly unlikely) attempt to get something going.
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