Ultima 200mph Club
Discussion
I remember one of the Autocar tests a few years back. Had an Ultima included (which was quickest 0-100) and a Zonda - I "think" the Zonda was 10mph quicker top speed. Can't remember if it was after a mile and a half or 2 miles. IIRC, the Ultima did about 170, the Zonda about 180.
Would be interested to see how many genuine 200mph cars there are too. Theoretically with the right gearing, any with 500+hp should be able to do it.
Would be interested to see how many genuine 200mph cars there are too. Theoretically with the right gearing, any with 500+hp should be able to do it.
Gotta be 1.5 miles surely - or a low output motor.
Honington was 1.8 miles with the timing equipment at 1.3miles IIR. I got to 171mph in fifth around the 7000rpm. Going by what peterpsg says about torque drop off, I couldn't have done the run any worse, always wringing the gears to 7000 rpm. Ideally then, you wanna be maxing out at speed between your peak torque, 4,800and peak in the 6,000s? So I should be wanting to get to 200 at 5,500-6,000??
Hmmmm
So can we take it from that lack of 200 + entries that we have no UK club members?
Honington was 1.8 miles with the timing equipment at 1.3miles IIR. I got to 171mph in fifth around the 7000rpm. Going by what peterpsg says about torque drop off, I couldn't have done the run any worse, always wringing the gears to 7000 rpm. Ideally then, you wanna be maxing out at speed between your peak torque, 4,800and peak in the 6,000s? So I should be wanting to get to 200 at 5,500-6,000??
Hmmmm
So can we take it from that lack of 200 + entries that we have no UK club members?
Edited by luckyp on Saturday 25th November 10:29
luckyp said:
Gotta be 1.5 miles surely - or a low output motor.
Honington was 1.8 miles with the timing equipment at 1.3miles IIR. I got to 171mph in fifth around the 7000rpm. Going by what peterpsg says about torque drop off, I couldn't have done the run any worse, always wringing the gears to 7000 rpm. Ideally then, you wanna be maxing out at speed between your peak torque, 4,800and peak in the 6,000s? So I should be wanting to get to 200 at 5,500-6,000??
Hmmmm
So can we take it from that lack of 200 + entries that we have no UK club members?
Honington was 1.8 miles with the timing equipment at 1.3miles IIR. I got to 171mph in fifth around the 7000rpm. Going by what peterpsg says about torque drop off, I couldn't have done the run any worse, always wringing the gears to 7000 rpm. Ideally then, you wanna be maxing out at speed between your peak torque, 4,800and peak in the 6,000s? So I should be wanting to get to 200 at 5,500-6,000??
Hmmmm
So can we take it from that lack of 200 + entries that we have no UK club members?
Edited by luckyp on Saturday 25th November 10:29
Peter
If you were going to 7000 in each gear then you were not getting the most out of your setup as you were changing after peak torque.
Do you have Paul Olson's (YIIHAA) shift point calculator (Excel)?
You add your dyno info plus wheel and tyre sizes so it can calculate the torque multiplied by the gears. With this info it calculates the point where there is more torque in the next gear to the one you're currently in giving you the ideal shift point.
It has a look-up table of all the different 'box ratios and you can add your own for your upcoming mods.
Using your gearbox (G50/03) but my dyno info you should have been shifting at...
6881rpm....44mph
6623rpm....72mph
6225rpm....99mph
6161rpm...127mph
To make the most of the torque.
Steve
deadscoob said:
I remember one of the Autocar tests a few years back. Had an Ultima included (which was quickest 0-100) and a Zonda - I "think" the Zonda was 10mph quicker top speed. Can't remember if it was after a mile and a half or 2 miles. IIRC, the Ultima did about 170, the Zonda about 180.
Would be interested to see how many genuine 200mph cars there are too. Theoretically with the right gearing, any with 500+hp should be able to do it.
Would be interested to see how many genuine 200mph cars there are too. Theoretically with the right gearing, any with 500+hp should be able to do it.
That was me and they never asked for a top speed run but then they included the fastest I went with acceleration up to it
.... On the same strip I had previously done over 184mph at 1.5miles were I ran out of road (was at 6100rpm in a 526bhp AS engine dyno'd to 7100rpm).
Edited by andygtt on Saturday 25th November 17:45
Ok, I've been thinking about it after Wayne's BHP comment last night...
Feel free to correct my musings if they sound wrong...
Ok, firstly since power is generated by burning fuel, and the more you can burn per unit time, the more power you'll produce, which is why F1 engines produce lots of HP, despite being NA, they simply run at hi revs and burn more fuel per unit time...
The engine torque is related to the pressure on the surface piston, over the length of the crank throw and a some other variables. (BMEP)
So if my torque peaks at 5100 rpm, and drops rapidly off after that, then, due to gearing I'll only get so much torque out at the wheels to overcome the air resistance...
So in 6th gear for me currently, at 5100 rpm, I'd have my max torque of 470 lb/ft, but as the gearbox acts a torque multiplier, since it's dividing the engine shaft output speed down, I acually get 470 lb/ft * 2.824, which is the final ratio for 6th and the diff thus, ignoring the losses in the gearbox, is about 1327 ft/pd out at the wheels...
So if I use the PHII 5/6th gear with a 0.688, then the final ratio with a 3.444 diff ratio would be, 2.369472, resulting in a maximum output torque at the wheels of only 1113 lb/ft...
However I'd actually being doing a higher speed at that point, due to the reduced ratio of the gearing...
So assuing all that is right, and deducting off a 15% gearbox loss, I wonder if the roughly 950ft/pds remaining would do the trick...???
Feel free to correct my musings if they sound wrong...
Ok, firstly since power is generated by burning fuel, and the more you can burn per unit time, the more power you'll produce, which is why F1 engines produce lots of HP, despite being NA, they simply run at hi revs and burn more fuel per unit time...
The engine torque is related to the pressure on the surface piston, over the length of the crank throw and a some other variables. (BMEP)
So if my torque peaks at 5100 rpm, and drops rapidly off after that, then, due to gearing I'll only get so much torque out at the wheels to overcome the air resistance...
So in 6th gear for me currently, at 5100 rpm, I'd have my max torque of 470 lb/ft, but as the gearbox acts a torque multiplier, since it's dividing the engine shaft output speed down, I acually get 470 lb/ft * 2.824, which is the final ratio for 6th and the diff thus, ignoring the losses in the gearbox, is about 1327 ft/pd out at the wheels...
So if I use the PHII 5/6th gear with a 0.688, then the final ratio with a 3.444 diff ratio would be, 2.369472, resulting in a maximum output torque at the wheels of only 1113 lb/ft...
However I'd actually being doing a higher speed at that point, due to the reduced ratio of the gearing...
So assuing all that is right, and deducting off a 15% gearbox loss, I wonder if the roughly 950ft/pds remaining would do the trick...???
LuckyP, I think you need to check your maths, Wayne is actually more like 4 x as sad as you.
I am about 1/2 as sad as you and Wayne is about 8 x as sad as me.
Sad
Very sad
Terminal sad
The good news is that we all have the right colour GTR.
I am about 1/2 as sad as you and Wayne is about 8 x as sad as me.
Sad
Very sad
Terminal sad
The good news is that we all have the right colour GTR.
Edited by crafty on Sunday 26th November 02:27
I think the term 'sad' is maybe a little strong, more 'forlorn' maybe or 'reticent' even but not 'sad', don't put me in a box fellas.
Whichever way you cut it, it is a wee bit alarming however that it does seem to be a fact that although we are all three blessed with a smattering of nous and a rather large helping of blindingly good taste having not only the correct vehicle but undeniably the correct COLOUR vehicle, once we get on here the propensity to talk shite seems to take control. Long live PH's, that what I say. I dare say we will all get bored with it at some point but that day is a way off yet. Sad?, me?, nah, not on yer Nelly mate.
Oh yeah, bit of a hijack I know but just thought you may like to know, me, my good mate Wayne and two guys both named Kev are all off at 9 a.m. this morning to collect the GTW; He is coming back to his rightful home, his resting place and will be King of all he surveys. I have nearly finished re-furbing the garage to accept him and it looks like a palace fit for a GTW. My good lady seems a little worried at the impending arrival but as I keep saying to her, 'Love, the GTW may well be the pinnacle of the last five years of my life and in essence appear to be all things to all men but it will never be able to create a Beef and Guinness pie like you can Sweetheart, so don't worry, there will be no 'favourite', equal standing will be granted throughout, have no fear'. Solid.
Whichever way you cut it, it is a wee bit alarming however that it does seem to be a fact that although we are all three blessed with a smattering of nous and a rather large helping of blindingly good taste having not only the correct vehicle but undeniably the correct COLOUR vehicle, once we get on here the propensity to talk shite seems to take control. Long live PH's, that what I say. I dare say we will all get bored with it at some point but that day is a way off yet. Sad?, me?, nah, not on yer Nelly mate.
Oh yeah, bit of a hijack I know but just thought you may like to know, me, my good mate Wayne and two guys both named Kev are all off at 9 a.m. this morning to collect the GTW; He is coming back to his rightful home, his resting place and will be King of all he surveys. I have nearly finished re-furbing the garage to accept him and it looks like a palace fit for a GTW. My good lady seems a little worried at the impending arrival but as I keep saying to her, 'Love, the GTW may well be the pinnacle of the last five years of my life and in essence appear to be all things to all men but it will never be able to create a Beef and Guinness pie like you can Sweetheart, so don't worry, there will be no 'favourite', equal standing will be granted throughout, have no fear'. Solid.
crafty said:
LuckyP, I think you need to check your maths, Wayne is actually more like 4 x as sad as you.
I am about 1/2 as sad as you and Wayne is about 8 x as sad as me.
Sad
Very sad
Terminal sad
The good news is that we all have the right colour GTR.
I am about 1/2 as sad as you and Wayne is about 8 x as sad as me.
Sad
Very sad
Terminal sad
The good news is that we all have the right colour GTR.
Edited by crafty on Sunday 26th November 02:27
Doh! Maths not my strong point. I can only count to 200...
...but will I ever need to?steve_d said:
luckyp said:
Gotta be 1.5 miles surely - or a low output motor.
Honington was 1.8 miles with the timing equipment at 1.3miles IIR. I got to 171mph in fifth around the 7000rpm. Going by what peterpsg says about torque drop off, I couldn't have done the run any worse, always wringing the gears to 7000 rpm. Ideally then, you wanna be maxing out at speed between your peak torque, 4,800and peak in the 6,000s? So I should be wanting to get to 200 at 5,500-6,000??
Hmmmm
So can we take it from that lack of 200 + entries that we have no UK club members?
Honington was 1.8 miles with the timing equipment at 1.3miles IIR. I got to 171mph in fifth around the 7000rpm. Going by what peterpsg says about torque drop off, I couldn't have done the run any worse, always wringing the gears to 7000 rpm. Ideally then, you wanna be maxing out at speed between your peak torque, 4,800and peak in the 6,000s? So I should be wanting to get to 200 at 5,500-6,000??
Hmmmm
So can we take it from that lack of 200 + entries that we have no UK club members?
Edited by luckyp on Saturday 25th November 10:29
Peter
If you were going to 7000 in each gear then you were not getting the most out of your setup as you were changing after peak torque.
Do you have Paul Olson's (YIIHAA) shift point calculator (Excel)?
You add your dyno info plus wheel and tyre sizes so it can calculate the torque multiplied by the gears. With this info it calculates the point where there is more torque in the next gear to the one you're currently in giving you the ideal shift point.
It has a look-up table of all the different 'box ratios and you can add your own for your upcoming mods.
Using your gearbox (G50/03) but my dyno info you should have been shifting at...
6881rpm....44mph
6623rpm....72mph
6225rpm....99mph
6161rpm...127mph
To make the most of the torque.
Steve
Put in my dyno results and:
Shift points
Gear 1 2 3 4 5
MPH 44 75 110 160 227
RPM 6881 6899 6917 6913 6978
Not too sure what that shows me.....but those recommended shift points are at pretty high RPM aren't they?
Pete
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