Honda RVF 400 vs. Yamaha Thundercat
Discussion
Honda RVF 400 versus a Yamaha Thundercat but as a first bike.
The reason I'm asking as I was in a dealership in Glasgow the other day booking a CBT (gotta start somewhere) I was discussing what to buy for a first bike with the sales girl. She was 21 and had been riding for 2 years and was advising me not to go for a 400 as my first bike as she said I'd get bored of it quickly.
I've had my heart set on an RVF 400 for a while now but I've never ridden one obviously. I was quite surprised to be advised to buy a 600 for a first bike. I had assumed that if I bought a 600 then I would be bankrupted by insurance and probably kill myself in short order.
However I was told a couple of things that surprised me.
1. Insurance for the Thundermoggy might actually be cheaper. The reason? the RVF is a grey import and spares are percieved to be more expensive so the insurance goes up. Also the Thundercat is a rarely crashed bike as things go so insurers put them down a group or two.
2. I won't kill myself within a week on a 600.....apparently
This is still subject to debate. A Thundercat is supposed to have 90bhp and is very light (compared to a car) I currently drive about in a car that would be lucky if it made 65hp and weighs about the same as house.
I can see myself getting into trouble quickly.
I was given the usual spiel about the throttle working both ways.
There is also the matter of money. I've got maybe 3000 to 3500 to spend on the bike (and some more for kit) and RVFs seem to be old for the money. I'll also have to travel to far away dealers to even have a hope of finding a good one.
What attracts me is the pedigree, handling, and its small and light. I'm not a huge bloke (actually I'm a 10stone weakling
) and don't really want a huge bike. Having said that would a rookie really notice the difference in handling between the two bikes. The low seat height on the RVF could be handy.
I guess I have been influence by the image of a sharp 400 against a wonky old 600 hasbeen
That said it would be easier to come by a used Thundermoggy for reasonable money.
Something else amused me. The girl didn't seem to have a very high opinion of Hondas. And was keen for me to consider a 600. All this while I'm standing in a Yamaha dealership that doesn't have a single used 400 on the floor. But plenty of used 600's.
Me cynical? Never.....
So now I'm not sure what to do. I guess the bottom line is to get my full lisence and test ride both and see how I feel.
over to you guys what do you think??
Andy
The reason I'm asking as I was in a dealership in Glasgow the other day booking a CBT (gotta start somewhere) I was discussing what to buy for a first bike with the sales girl. She was 21 and had been riding for 2 years and was advising me not to go for a 400 as my first bike as she said I'd get bored of it quickly.
I've had my heart set on an RVF 400 for a while now but I've never ridden one obviously. I was quite surprised to be advised to buy a 600 for a first bike. I had assumed that if I bought a 600 then I would be bankrupted by insurance and probably kill myself in short order.
However I was told a couple of things that surprised me.
1. Insurance for the Thundermoggy might actually be cheaper. The reason? the RVF is a grey import and spares are percieved to be more expensive so the insurance goes up. Also the Thundercat is a rarely crashed bike as things go so insurers put them down a group or two.
2. I won't kill myself within a week on a 600.....apparently
This is still subject to debate. A Thundercat is supposed to have 90bhp and is very light (compared to a car) I currently drive about in a car that would be lucky if it made 65hp and weighs about the same as house. I can see myself getting into trouble quickly.
I was given the usual spiel about the throttle working both ways.
There is also the matter of money. I've got maybe 3000 to 3500 to spend on the bike (and some more for kit) and RVFs seem to be old for the money. I'll also have to travel to far away dealers to even have a hope of finding a good one.
What attracts me is the pedigree, handling, and its small and light. I'm not a huge bloke (actually I'm a 10stone weakling
) and don't really want a huge bike. Having said that would a rookie really notice the difference in handling between the two bikes. The low seat height on the RVF could be handy. I guess I have been influence by the image of a sharp 400 against a wonky old 600 hasbeen
That said it would be easier to come by a used Thundermoggy for reasonable money.
Something else amused me. The girl didn't seem to have a very high opinion of Hondas. And was keen for me to consider a 600. All this while I'm standing in a Yamaha dealership that doesn't have a single used 400 on the floor. But plenty of used 600's.
Me cynical? Never.....
So now I'm not sure what to do. I guess the bottom line is to get my full lisence and test ride both and see how I feel.
over to you guys what do you think??
Andy
I worked with a guy who had an RVF as his only bike, and he loved it. He found that a 400 was plenty of grunt for road use and due to its light weight it was a dream in corners - the only place it lost out over the 600+ bikes was on the straights.
Its my current choice of first bike for when I can afford to get one!
Its my current choice of first bike for when I can afford to get one!
Never mind your weight,how tall are you?RVF is not built for anyone over about 5'9'' really,any more and 20miles down the road you'll want to get off!But if you are a shortarse and like scratching they're excellent!Honda build quality is better in general IMHO but a moggy can still be fun and a longer term option,whatever you do,have fun
I'm a shortarse so fit won't be a problem. Indeed one of the magazines said that the bike's size and suspension set up was dedicated to lightweight Japanese guys. This is absolutley perfect for me as I fit that bill nicely.
The only stumbling block is price. I went onto boxhill motorcycles site and all the RVFs seem to be low milage mega priced efforts.
Andy
The only stumbling block is price. I went onto boxhill motorcycles site and all the RVFs seem to be low milage mega priced efforts.
Andy
I rode all the 400s before settling on a Kawasaki ZXR. The Hondas were nice but I just couldn't get comfortable (on either the RVF,VFR or CBR).
Do I get bored? No, but keeping it in the right rev range for fast riding is hard work, but then I deliberately decided to get a 400 to make me learn how to ride properly.
The ZXR is a nice looking bike, official import, usd forks and much cheaper to look after than a RVF.
Do I get bored? No, but keeping it in the right rev range for fast riding is hard work, but then I deliberately decided to get a 400 to make me learn how to ride properly.
The ZXR is a nice looking bike, official import, usd forks and much cheaper to look after than a RVF.
Hi.
I was thinking of getting a 400 for when I passed my DAS, but when talking to my instructor he suggested to avoid the 400's as I would get bored very quickly, and to go for a 600.
Yes the 400's can be as quick as the 600 in all but a straight line but you really have to keep the rev's high, over 10k, to get any sort of power, whereas a 600 will have a lot more grunt.
What did I go for? a 600 fully faired Bandit.
Tim.
I was thinking of getting a 400 for when I passed my DAS, but when talking to my instructor he suggested to avoid the 400's as I would get bored very quickly, and to go for a 600.
Yes the 400's can be as quick as the 600 in all but a straight line but you really have to keep the rev's high, over 10k, to get any sort of power, whereas a 600 will have a lot more grunt.
What did I go for? a 600 fully faired Bandit.
Tim.
I test rode a RVF400 a couple of years ago. I found it very cramped, particularly my legs. Saying that it was really light and chuckable. I didn't end up buying it in the end because it didn't feel as though it had enough power (coming from a Bandit 600). I ended up buying a CBR600 ('98). At the same time a friend got a Thundercat. I rode both and much prefered the CBR. I found it had a better riding position, sportier than the TC, not as extreme as the RVF. And handled better than the TC, which may be a bit soft if you want a sports bike. It may be worth checking the insurance on a CBR. I loved mine.
Gavin
Gavin
I have heard that the little 400's need reving. If you look at the power curves for an RVF peak torque is at 10000rpm and peak power is at 12500rpm
basically you have to keep the engine spinning.
As far as thundercats vs CBRs go I'll have to check the insurance and costs involved. Hmmm. I hadn't considered a CBR.
Andy
basically you have to keep the engine spinning.
As far as thundercats vs CBRs go I'll have to check the insurance and costs involved. Hmmm. I hadn't considered a CBR.
Andy
Oh I remember this one…. Just passed my test, a few grand to spend on a bike 400 (grey import) or UK 600…?? I spent time looking round the country at grey imports, NC24s, CBR400RR, ZXR400, etc… I ended up looking at 5 400’s from Tamworth down to Croydon (some dealer, some private). None of them seemed really what I describe as a big bike. They all just seemed to be missing a little something, just a little too small and not much bigger than a 250… (I’m about 5” 11 and 13 st) I rode a couple and of course, coming from a car they all felt fantastic, and bloody quick (my car at the time was a Rover 220 – so most things felt quick).
I then went to view a FZR600R (the same age as the imports – about 5/6 yrs old), and just fell in love with it. I had a quick go, and the bike felt heavy, although I was using the power of the bike between about 5k – 6k, something I remember on the 400s I had to really rev them, ‘cause not much happened below 8k. Anyway I had the same concerns about being a new rider, and the speed of it, and was told that you don’t have to thrash it all the time.
Anyway cut a long story short, I had the bike for 2 yrs then brought a ZX6R. During that time I come up against several 400’s, and rode some as well, and I was so glad I brought the 600, as I think I would have got used to the 400 engine too quickly. With a 600 you wont have to change gear all the while to keep the thing going, if you’re in the wrong gear it will forgive you and just pull, where as a 400 will need constant gear changes to go anywhere.
Get a good 600, be sensible with the power, and ride with someone who knows you’re new to riding and you’ll be fine. Just be careful of the first time you approach a bend at anything above 60 mph, I still have the memories of not being able to turn a big bike at spend.!!!! Go and read lots about counter steering and moving your weight around the bike, and you’ll be fine. Best bit of advice I ever had, was to move your weight around, and slightly hang of the saddle when cornering (even if it’s just a little bit), it seems to give you so much more confidence in the corners (as you don’t sit so upright on the bike – thus lowering your centre of gravity). I got my knee down – 3 months after buying the FZR600 – still remember that day..!!
jj
I then went to view a FZR600R (the same age as the imports – about 5/6 yrs old), and just fell in love with it. I had a quick go, and the bike felt heavy, although I was using the power of the bike between about 5k – 6k, something I remember on the 400s I had to really rev them, ‘cause not much happened below 8k. Anyway I had the same concerns about being a new rider, and the speed of it, and was told that you don’t have to thrash it all the time.
Anyway cut a long story short, I had the bike for 2 yrs then brought a ZX6R. During that time I come up against several 400’s, and rode some as well, and I was so glad I brought the 600, as I think I would have got used to the 400 engine too quickly. With a 600 you wont have to change gear all the while to keep the thing going, if you’re in the wrong gear it will forgive you and just pull, where as a 400 will need constant gear changes to go anywhere.
Get a good 600, be sensible with the power, and ride with someone who knows you’re new to riding and you’ll be fine. Just be careful of the first time you approach a bend at anything above 60 mph, I still have the memories of not being able to turn a big bike at spend.!!!! Go and read lots about counter steering and moving your weight around the bike, and you’ll be fine. Best bit of advice I ever had, was to move your weight around, and slightly hang of the saddle when cornering (even if it’s just a little bit), it seems to give you so much more confidence in the corners (as you don’t sit so upright on the bike – thus lowering your centre of gravity). I got my knee down – 3 months after buying the FZR600 – still remember that day..!!
jj
My friend bought a Thundercat as his first bike and he's been very happy with it. He certainly hasn't got bored with it. I haven't had a go on the Honda, but if you plan to take a pillion out, then the Thundercat will be a much better bet...more torque and more room.
BTW, one of the first things my friend did was to have the Orange bits painted black, it looks Soooo much better!
BTW, one of the first things my friend did was to have the Orange bits painted black, it looks Soooo much better!
Too much deliberation going into this .... I started on an FS1E at 16 many years ago, fell off it a couple of times and progressed to an RD200 screaming two stroke, flat out at 85mph, but loads of fun and ended up after various piles of doggy to a Z650, which by modern standards was a death trap, frame flexed, suspension was a giggle and the skinny tyres left a little to be desired, but I could still get the rear sets on the ground with a pillion and had more than enough fun with 120mph being flat out.
Start with the 400, learn to ride the thing, you hit a bus stop at 50mph you'll die, I had friends that did, then get your 600, after all do you really want to hit 150 within weeks of starting.
Start with the 400, learn to ride the thing, you hit a bus stop at 50mph you'll die, I had friends that did, then get your 600, after all do you really want to hit 150 within weeks of starting.
K3NJW said:
Start with the 400, learn to ride the thing, you hit a bus stop at 50mph you'll die, I had friends that did, then get your 600, after all do you really want to hit 150 within weeks of starting.
Yup. This my thoughts exactly.
Get a 400 and learn to ride it properly. Having said that look at the insurance novice thread. Captain Muppet and his magic 180 quid fully comp quote.
Maybe I should get a ZXR400 instead and spend the dosh I save on insurance on a holiday to France on it.
Andy
you dont say what type of riding you want to do???
both are good machines as are most modern sportsbikes, will you be doing any pillion work, if so the tcat. if not the rvf, or an older or cheaper 400. gsxr or zxr. i have owned a few bikes currently a tls1000 and had most fun on a f plated gsxr400 that cost me a grand.
both are good machines as are most modern sportsbikes, will you be doing any pillion work, if so the tcat. if not the rvf, or an older or cheaper 400. gsxr or zxr. i have owned a few bikes currently a tls1000 and had most fun on a f plated gsxr400 that cost me a grand.
Alternative first bikes to consider include the usual Fazer/Hornet/SV candidates, which have a friendly power delivery and more than enough poke to keep you entertained. I had (still have) an SV for my first bike and learnt loads on it, the only reason I bought a Speed Triple and am selling the SV is for a change.
tl1000gussie said: you dont say what type of riding you want to do???
I live in Scotland and will be on holiday for 2 months when I get it. So you can imagine the kind of roads and riding I'll be doing
. I want good handling with no nasty surprises and in this respect the RVF gets a solid write up from the magazines. I also want a bike thats good quality and won't rust/disintegrate on me so I can re-sell it after a year or 2.
Also I'll be buying a used bike and the Hondas seem to last better than the other 400s.
Cos of insurance I won't be able to take a pillion anyway (and beside none of my mates ride bikes so no one I know has leathers/helmet) so I'm not bothered about pillion provision.
Andy
That's the 'cat out of the picture then
I also want a bike thats good quality and won't rust/disintegrate on me so I can re-sell it after a year or 2.
Get yerself a CBR600, there's a good reason that so many people have had one - they're bloody fantastic bikes for the money & the build quality is way ahead of the others (in the 3-3.5k market).
I had a '95 FS model at the same time as a mate had a 'cat. The Honda is: Faster,handles better ('cat a bit soggy),built better,looks better,easier to resell when you move on.
For your money you should be able to pick up an immaculate FV model.
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