The Petition Wording
Discussion
Hi All,
We have applied to the police to deliver the petition directly to Number 10 Downing Street during the parade, and are now in the process of being security screened.
I propose that we post the petition on an on line service, and then get as many people as possible to log on and sign.
Before we do any of this though, i would appreciate your views on the excellent suggested woring we have had from Hut49. Even after the sad news yesterday it is still relevant.
We, the undersigned, believe that a decision by the management of TVR to outsource production of the TVR range of sportscars to a facility outside the UK, with the consequential loss of up to 260 TVR production staff, will further erode both this Country's manufacturing base and the reputation for innovative design and engineering enterprise that specialist car companies such as TVR have established over the past several decades.
We therefore petition the Prime Minister to request the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry to:
(i) investigate the circumstances behind the proposed intention to outsource TVR production abroad in preference to further investment in the UK, and
(ii) (ii) provide whatever help and guidance may be appropriate from the Secretary of State's good offices to TVR management during the ongoing Consultation Period.
thanks
David
We have applied to the police to deliver the petition directly to Number 10 Downing Street during the parade, and are now in the process of being security screened.
I propose that we post the petition on an on line service, and then get as many people as possible to log on and sign.
Before we do any of this though, i would appreciate your views on the excellent suggested woring we have had from Hut49. Even after the sad news yesterday it is still relevant.
We, the undersigned, believe that a decision by the management of TVR to outsource production of the TVR range of sportscars to a facility outside the UK, with the consequential loss of up to 260 TVR production staff, will further erode both this Country's manufacturing base and the reputation for innovative design and engineering enterprise that specialist car companies such as TVR have established over the past several decades.
We therefore petition the Prime Minister to request the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry to:
(i) investigate the circumstances behind the proposed intention to outsource TVR production abroad in preference to further investment in the UK, and
(ii) (ii) provide whatever help and guidance may be appropriate from the Secretary of State's good offices to TVR management during the ongoing Consultation Period.
thanks
David
Sounds great but "over the past several decades." doesn't flow well when you read it back to yourself (at least to me anyway??). Maybe, "... such as TVR have established over the past half century or more." or just "..over the decades." ???
It might be worth emphasising a little more how the loss of engineering talent and heritage will be detrimental to the UK:
"....TVR have established over the past several decades.
Britain has a reputation for producing gifted engineers, craftsmen and women who are the envy of the world. With the continual loss of companies like TVR, Britain is in danger of losing the skills that have been developed over the last half century, and with them our proud heritage.
We therefore petition the Prime Minister....."
As for additional points, maybe:
(iii) Begin legislation that prevents foreign and UK parties from buying British interests and taking them out of the UK resulting in mass unemployment, loss of skills and heritage. (ie. legal agreement in advance not to do this.)
(Imagine if a mega rich 'anyone' bought Microsoft from BG or the Statue of Liberty and tried to remove it from the US!! would they just allow that to happen!??!)
(iv) Help, assistance and understanding for the 260 TVR staff from their Local Government as they look for new employment.
?????
G
It might be worth emphasising a little more how the loss of engineering talent and heritage will be detrimental to the UK:
"....TVR have established over the past several decades.
Britain has a reputation for producing gifted engineers, craftsmen and women who are the envy of the world. With the continual loss of companies like TVR, Britain is in danger of losing the skills that have been developed over the last half century, and with them our proud heritage.
We therefore petition the Prime Minister....."
As for additional points, maybe:
(iii) Begin legislation that prevents foreign and UK parties from buying British interests and taking them out of the UK resulting in mass unemployment, loss of skills and heritage. (ie. legal agreement in advance not to do this.)
(Imagine if a mega rich 'anyone' bought Microsoft from BG or the Statue of Liberty and tried to remove it from the US!! would they just allow that to happen!??!)
(iv) Help, assistance and understanding for the 260 TVR staff from their Local Government as they look for new employment.
?????
G
I don't understand what the petition is for. Is it trying to say that somebody at TVR acted improperly/illegally - if so in what way? Or that the DTI should block the move abroad - do they have a legal basis for doing that? Or that the government should have given tax payers money to TVR to prop the business up when it wasn't viable as a going concern?
I hate the current situation as much as anyone, but this petition strikes me as an expression of disappointment/frustration (which I share) rather than anything tangible and specific for people in the government to act on.
I hate the current situation as much as anyone, but this petition strikes me as an expression of disappointment/frustration (which I share) rather than anything tangible and specific for people in the government to act on.
The petition does seem a bit pointless/misguided.
ie what can the government do?
A privately owned comapny has decided to restructure itself, close a factory and outsource production
What is it going to achieve?
It might be better if petition asked the government investigated that the current employees were being treated fairly, etc,etc ie layoff in a 90 day consulatncy preiod for redundancy....
in my mind it might be better to just organise a press relaese, along the lines of
'these TVR owners will never buy a new TVR again under a regime that treated the workers so appalingly'
hopefully this might give NS the message that their is no point continueing, AND that he will sell it, whilst their is still a chance of the comapny being taken forward.
I'll try to make it as well.
T
ie what can the government do?
A privately owned comapny has decided to restructure itself, close a factory and outsource production
What is it going to achieve?
It might be better if petition asked the government investigated that the current employees were being treated fairly, etc,etc ie layoff in a 90 day consulatncy preiod for redundancy....
in my mind it might be better to just organise a press relaese, along the lines of
'these TVR owners will never buy a new TVR again under a regime that treated the workers so appalingly'
hopefully this might give NS the message that their is no point continueing, AND that he will sell it, whilst their is still a chance of the comapny being taken forward.
I'll try to make it as well.
T
Edited by bjwoods on Friday 10th November 14:46
I think we need a petition to. I don't believe it will change anything but the response itself will be a good indication to NS just what a bad decision he has made and it will highlight just how rottenly the workforce has been treated.
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 10th November 16:28
GreenV8S said:
I don't understand what the petition is for. Is it trying to say that somebody at TVR acted improperly/illegally - if so in what way? Or that the DTI should block the move abroad - do they have a legal basis for doing that? Or that the government should have given tax payers money to TVR to prop the business up when it wasn't viable as a going concern?
I hate the current situation as much as anyone, but this petition strikes me as an expression of disappointment/frustration (which I share) rather than anything tangible and specific for people in the government to act on.
I hate the current situation as much as anyone, but this petition strikes me as an expression of disappointment/frustration (which I share) rather than anything tangible and specific for people in the government to act on.
Using the media to get across a point, and reaching a critical mass in terms of editorial awareness such that it gets on national (?international) news requires using just about every news hook you can find. Getting a petition together and getting someone to agree to receive it at No.10 in front of some cameras is one hook. The content itself is not expected or going to make one iota of difference. So structure the stated purpose of the petition in such a way that those who will enable the petition to be received see it as a reasonable but passionate expression of their vested interest and agree to receive it in front of a few cameras. Therefore neither load it with finger-pointing accusation about impropriety, nor imply that tax-payer money should be devoted to prop up a failing business (too many people with MG/Rover scars around already). Either of those will cause the door at No 10 to remain firmly closed.
The purpose of the petition is/was to raise the profile of the Keep TVR British cause - not prompt Government intervention - in the hope that TVR management might (perhaps with local government or other benefactor help) see the benefit of retaining production and jobs in UK. However, in the light of today's event I suspect that objective is now no longer attainable.
Ive had a reply from the office of Joan Humble MP, offering for her to present the petition in person to the House of Commons. They ahve also kindly provided suggested wording, together with teh required official "petition format".
I have suggested that we might still prefer to present the petition to No 10, but if anything goes wrong with our aplication, we can fall back on her offer - any thoughts?
i will also get round to reading her suggested words tomorrow, and perhaps use the services of hut49, our resident wordsmith, to get his input.
We are getting closer, more updates later
I have suggested that we might still prefer to present the petition to No 10, but if anything goes wrong with our aplication, we can fall back on her offer - any thoughts?
i will also get round to reading her suggested words tomorrow, and perhaps use the services of hut49, our resident wordsmith, to get his input.
We are getting closer, more updates later
GreenV8S said:
I don't understand what the petition is for. Is it trying to say that somebody at TVR acted improperly/illegally - if so in what way? Or that the DTI should block the move abroad - do they have a legal basis for doing that? Or that the government should have given tax payers money to TVR to prop the business up when it wasn't viable as a going concern?
I hate the current situation as much as anyone, but this petition strikes me as an expression of disappointment/frustration (which I share) rather than anything tangible and specific for people in the government to act on.
I hate the current situation as much as anyone, but this petition strikes me as an expression of disappointment/frustration (which I share) rather than anything tangible and specific for people in the government to act on.
I understand your POV but why not voice our disappointment/frustration. One thing we in this country don't do enough of. It may not save TVR but at least we protested and that our protest is on record. Protest is tangible. This and the rallies have been spurred on by the recent events at TVR but it is about more than TVR. So many British companies have gone bust or left the UK in years gone by and clearly not just automotive. Jaguar, RR, AM, Lotus, and now TVR... All prestige marques created in Britain but now owned by non-British companies that rake in the profits from these famous names.
The DTI can't block the move but they could introduce legislation that prevents British interests being removed from the UK in the future, especially where such a large work force will be left without work. The government shouldn't prop up TVR but it could talk to TVR about why they want to move and try to offer a solution. After nearly 60 years of history and British ownership TVR is part of our heritage and as such should be an issue for the government just as the other marques above should have been.
Have TVR acted illegally ?? who knows ? I don't, and I wouldn't like to speculate. Have TVR acted improperly ? To their work force certainly (IMO). (sorry.. I'll get off my soap box now
) It's just sad when people put so much effort into creating something good only for it to be removed or dismantled and no-one with any influence bats an eyelid?!?
Confused and bewildered from Lancashire
Edited by GJR on Saturday 11th November 10:19
There are some thought provoking points raised in this thread, ragarding the "if" and the "what". Things have taken a turn for the worse since we initially discussed a petition, but one of the driving factors behind having one, and presenting it at Downing Street, was to give the rally a single focus point. In Blackpool, it was the drive past the factory; here i envisage all of the cars driving in a loop along Whitehall, whilst the petition is being presented. I have just got home from a trip up to London to check out the route, and i think it will be quite a dramatic scene, with a couple of hundred TVRs parading along there. 
The general consensus still seems to be to go with the petition, so i'll have it here shortly.
The general consensus still seems to be to go with the petition, so i'll have it here shortly.
GJR said:
I understand your POV but why not voice our disappointment/frustration. One thing we in this country don't do enough of. It may not save TVR but at least we protested and that our protest is on record. Protest is tangible. This and the rallies have been spurred on by the recent events at TVR but it is about more than TVR.
If you want to voice your frustration, I would have thought a letter to the national press would be more effective. The problem with the petition is that it doesn't seem to be asking for anything tangible. If you want the government to introduce legislation to stop this sort of thing, the petition should say so. (Personally don't want to encourage the government to take any more power than they already have. If they stop people from running the businesses they own according to their best judgement then it will make it harder for British businesses to survive, not easier.)
GJR said:
So many British companies have gone bust or left the UK in years gone by and clearly not just automotive. Jaguar, RR, AM, Lotus, and now TVR... All prestige marques created in Britain but now owned by non-British companies that rake in the profits from these famous names.
I assume that by 'rake in the profits' you mean 'pour cash in and keep the businesses going for another few years'. I'm glad the Jaguar, RR, AM, Lotus etc are still going, but I don't think their owners are exactly raking in the profits. And they're perfectly entitled to keep any profits they do make, they bought the companies fair and square.
GJR said:
Have TVR acted illegally ?? who knows ? I don't, and I wouldn't like to speculate. Have TVR acted improperly ? To their work force certainly (IMO). (sorry.. I'll get off my soap box now
) The call for an inquiry implies that somebody has acted improperly, but to justify an inquiry you would have to say who and how. Inquiries cost money, our money, and there's no point spending that just to acknowledge that some people are upset.
Put this into perspective. I'm personally very disapointed that TVR are effectively abandoning the UK, it's the end of TVR as I know it. The reason they're doing it is that the business isn't viable because people aren't buying the cars. I wish more people were patriotic and supported British companies, but the way to support them is not to write letters and sign petitions, it is to actually buy their goods and services. How many people who have signed that petition are driving a car built in France, Germany, Japan? A new car represents a bloke's job for a year. If you want to support British industry, buy British. Don't wait until it goes under and then complain that somebody should have done something!
The truth of the matter is that TVR are insignificant in the grand scheme of things, and unfortunately so is the loss of 250 or so jobs.
People need to be realistic and realise that a company losing as much money as TVR are losing cannot be saved. A loss of £11m on a turnover of £15m is not going to convince anybody to step in and save it.
Rover and 5000 jobs could not be saved. Peugoet are closing down their plant in Ryton with the loss of 2000 or so job.
Like it or not, no Government will step in and save TVR or any other company for that matter which finds itself in a similar situation.
TVR has been a flawed gem over the last few years and has been living on borrowed time. If more customers had bought their cars they would have survived.
It is very easy to be an expert on a forum like this and say what should have been done. But then again , we all think we know best.
Two years ago when NS bought TVR he was a hero. Now apparantly he is the villian. With all the negative threads on here over the last few years, its hardly surprising TVR's sale have slumped.
We reap what we sow.
People need to be realistic and realise that a company losing as much money as TVR are losing cannot be saved. A loss of £11m on a turnover of £15m is not going to convince anybody to step in and save it.
Rover and 5000 jobs could not be saved. Peugoet are closing down their plant in Ryton with the loss of 2000 or so job.
Like it or not, no Government will step in and save TVR or any other company for that matter which finds itself in a similar situation.
TVR has been a flawed gem over the last few years and has been living on borrowed time. If more customers had bought their cars they would have survived.
It is very easy to be an expert on a forum like this and say what should have been done. But then again , we all think we know best.
Two years ago when NS bought TVR he was a hero. Now apparantly he is the villian. With all the negative threads on here over the last few years, its hardly surprising TVR's sale have slumped.
We reap what we sow.
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