Sport Auto Results on the 997 GT3

[TonyToniTone]

NJ-GT said:

7:48 at the Ring on MPSC.

The 996 GT3 ran 7:49 on Pirelli Corsa System on AutoBild, and Sport Auto ran 7:54 on MPS2. For the few ones that know the difference between the Michelin PSC and Michelin PS2, this test might be interesting.

The test car has PCCB, Carbon Fibre Seats and no sunroof. Over 100 lbs lighter than the incoming U.S. version. Check the weight.

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums

Not sure its a good comparison but thread has scans if you can read German...

Edited by TonyToniTone on Friday 3rd November 09:06

[steve rance]

TonyToniTone said:

[quote=NJ-GT]7:48 at the Ring on MPSC.

The 996 GT3 ran 7:49 on Pirelli Corsa System on AutoBild, and Sport Auto ran 7:54 on MPS2. For the few ones that know the difference between the Michelin PSC and Michelin PS2, this test might be interesting.

The test car has PCCB, Carbon Fibre Seats and no sunroof. Over 100 lbs lighter than the incoming U.S. version. Check the weight.

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums

Not sure its a good comparison but thread has scans if you can read German...


The MPSC gives a huge advantage over both the Corsa system and the MPS2. We tested a GT3RS at bedford GP on Corsa systems and MPS Cups. The cups were 3 seconds quicker. That was on flat tarmac. I'm not sure you could pro rata the same advantage to a ring time because of the nature of the circuit but there would still be a huge advatage running a MSPC over any other road tyre. certainly several seconds.

Steve R

[johnny senna]

steve rance said:

TonyToniTone said:

[quote=NJ-GT]7:48 at the Ring on MPSC.

The 996 GT3 ran 7:49 on Pirelli Corsa System on AutoBild, and Sport Auto ran 7:54 on MPS2. For the few ones that know the difference between the Michelin PSC and Michelin PS2, this test might be interesting.

The test car has PCCB, Carbon Fibre Seats and no sunroof. Over 100 lbs lighter than the incoming U.S. version. Check the weight.

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums

Not sure its a good comparison but thread has scans if you can read German...


The MPSC gives a huge advantage over both the Corsa system and the MPS2. We tested a GT3RS at bedford GP on Corsa systems and MPS Cups. The cups were 3 seconds quicker. That was on flat tarmac. I'm not sure you could pro rata the same advantage to a ring time because of the nature of the circuit but there would still be a huge advatage running a MSPC over any other road tyre. certainly several seconds.

Steve R

Steve,

At Spa this year Andy Baughan said to me that he thinks the Corsas are as quick as Cups in the dry. He said you agreed with him? Was he right in saying this??

[steve rance]

Hi Johnny

The standard 996RS tyre is not the track spec corsa. It has a more road bias. i am assuming that it is this tyre that is refered to in the article. I have driven the track spec corsa (the tyre that Andy refers to) and the MSCup back to back and prefer the cup because it goes off a lot later and suites my driving style. Andy prefers the corsa but has a very different driving style to me. I did get one good lap out of the corsa but times dropped quite quickly as the tyres went off. The cups stayed quick for a lot longer.

Steve

[Oddball RS]

Not sure if this helps at all but here goes,

The standard RS Corsa has three circumferencial? rings around the tyre to help cope with water, each is about 5-6mm in width.

The Corsa 'Cup' tyre has these deleted, but the two types share the same tread pattern and the same 80 treadwear rating.

[johnny senna]

Oddball RS said:

Not sure if this helps at all but here goes,

The standard RS Corsa has three circumferencial? rings around the tyre to help cope with water, each is about 5-6mm in width.

The Corsa 'Cup' tyre has these deleted, but the two types share the same tread pattern and the same 80 treadwear rating.

That's what I understood to be true as well. They don't make "standard" Corsa in the right size for my 993 RS (I think it's called the Corsa System isn't it, the one with the 3 rings around it?).

[johnny senna]

steve rance said:

Hi Johnny

The standard 996RS tyre is not the track spec corsa. It has a more road bias. i am assuming that it is this tyre that is refered to in the article. I have driven the track spec corsa (the tyre that Andy refers to) and the MSCup back to back and prefer the cup because it goes off a lot later and suites my driving style. Andy prefers the corsa but has a very different driving style to me. I did get one good lap out of the corsa but times dropped quite quickly as the tyres went off. The cups stayed quick for a lot longer.

Steve

Hi mate, that's interesting, thanks.

[polarexpress]

I think the misunderstanding comes from the naming convention... there is no such thing as a "Cup Corsa".

REGULAR Corsas have EXACTLY the same compound and construction as the SYSTEM Corsas (N6 rated).

The only difference is that the System Corsas have additional grooves to provide better standing rain dispersal, and the front tyre size (235/40-18) is a directional pattern designed to work in conjunction with the rear tyre pattern. Porsche demanded the Corsas to have additional rain grooves to allow it to be a safer OEM pattern for the RS when used on the road in wet conditions... hence System Corsas were invented and get the N-rating.

[steve rance]

That is interesting, I havn't actually driven a 996RS on it's 'standard' tyres and i'm interested to read that they are the same compound as the corsa. I did read somewhere last year that a standard 996RS on MScups did a 7.40 dead at the ring but I don't have any more details than that. I would like to get more information about that test. Does anybody have access to it?

Steve R

[polarexpress]

Steve, I've emailed you a copy of the PZero Corsa catalogue that gives an outline...
Cheers-

[steve rance]

polarexpress said:

Steve, I've emailed you a copy of the PZero Corsa catalogue that gives an outline...
Cheers-

Thank you..

[DanH]

steve rance said:

That is interesting, I havn't actually driven a 996RS on it's 'standard' tyres and i'm interested to read that they are the same compound as the corsa. I did read somewhere last year that a standard 996RS on MScups did a 7.40 dead at the ring but I don't have any more details than that. I would like to get more information about that test. Does anybody have access to it?

Steve R

It was in some belgium magazine or something, and set by a pro racing driver. Forgotten the name now, and the links to the scans of the article were dead when I tried to dig them up. Looked reasonably legit though... I think it may have been the article in which a fairly heavily modded m3 csl did 7.38 or 7.39 (something in that ballpark).

I've finally dumped my corsa systems for Toyo R888s so should be able to see if they are quicker tomorrow at Bedford as I know my normal entry speed to that chicane on the back straight, or won't they affect that? The other titanic guys suggest it should be a pretty big difference from their experiences.

[johnny senna]

DanH said:

steve rance said:

That is interesting, I havn't actually driven a 996RS on it's 'standard' tyres and i'm interested to read that they are the same compound as the corsa. I did read somewhere last year that a standard 996RS on MScups did a 7.40 dead at the ring but I don't have any more details than that. I would like to get more information about that test. Does anybody have access to it?

Steve R

It was in some belgium magazine or something, and set by a pro racing driver. Forgotten the name now, and the links to the scans of the article were dead when I tried to dig them up. Looked reasonably legit though... I think it may have been the article in which a fairly heavily modded m3 csl did 7.38 or 7.39 (something in that ballpark).

I've finally dumped my corsa systems for Toyo R888s so should be able to see if they are quicker tomorrow at Bedford as I know my normal entry speed to that chicane on the back straight, or won't they affect that? The other titanic guys suggest it should be a pretty big difference from their experiences.

That's interesting Dan, are the Toyos supposed to be quicker than the Corsas? As well as cheaper? Are they softer and therefore wear out more quickly?

[Dr S]

As much as I love Porsche's and as much as I adore the GT3's. I find it annoying how close the old M3 CSL gets to a 997 GT3 in terms of Ring performance...

[flemke]

Dr S said:

As much as I love Porsche's and as much as I adore the GT3's. I find it annoying how close the old M3 CSL gets to a 997 GT3 in terms of Ring performance...

Less power but a better chassis; the same tyres, same kerb weight.
Not sure about the aero, but given the P's minimal downforce, there probably isn't much in it.
Why shouldn't the CSL be as quick on a handling circuit?

[Dr S]

flemke, as the CSL is already a few years old and quite a bit cheaper I would have expected a tad more from the new 997 GT3.

[DanH]

johnny senna said:

DanH said:

steve rance said:

That is interesting, I havn't actually driven a 996RS on it's 'standard' tyres and i'm interested to read that they are the same compound as the corsa. I did read somewhere last year that a standard 996RS on MScups did a 7.40 dead at the ring but I don't have any more details than that. I would like to get more information about that test. Does anybody have access to it?

Steve R

It was in some belgium magazine or something, and set by a pro racing driver. Forgotten the name now, and the links to the scans of the article were dead when I tried to dig them up. Looked reasonably legit though... I think it may have been the article in which a fairly heavily modded m3 csl did 7.38 or 7.39 (something in that ballpark).

I've finally dumped my corsa systems for Toyo R888s so should be able to see if they are quicker tomorrow at Bedford as I know my normal entry speed to that chicane on the back straight, or won't they affect that? The other titanic guys suggest it should be a pretty big difference from their experiences.

That's interesting Dan, are the Toyos supposed to be quicker than the Corsas? As well as cheaper? Are they softer and therefore wear out more quickly?

The toyos are quicker than the corsa systems, but dunno vs the corsa motorsports as I've never used them on a 911. I really enjoyed my first trackday with the toyos yesterday. Lots of grip, but progressive brake away.

Need to check wear when I get a chance as there have been some horror stories on R888s shoulders wearing prematurely. They apparently don't like camber due to very stiff side walls - suits me though as I don't want to destroy my inside shoulders on the roads with lots of rear camber.

Anyway so far so good!

[flemke]

Dr S said:

flemke, as the CSL is already a few years old and quite a bit cheaper I would have expected a tad more from the new 997 GT3.

Yes, but we're getting diminishing returns. A CGT, which is an exceptionally quick and competent road car on a circuit, has only (officially) done 7:32 (that is, on "normal" rod tyres).

The CSL is a very quick road car, especially, as I said, when it's being deployed at a handling circuit.

Also bear in mind that there are considerable variations in the circuit depending on the weather and time of year.

As for the cheaper part, you ought to take that up with Wedekind. In fact, we all should do that.

(I'm assuming that both the times to which you're referring were done by von Saurma, so that there is minimal driver influence.)

[DanH]

Dr S said:

flemke, as the CSL is already a few years old and quite a bit cheaper I would have expected a tad more from the new 997 GT3.

Likewise vs the 996 GT3. Perhaps when/if the rumoured 3.8 engine makes an appearance.

[flemke]

DanH said:

Dr S said:

flemke, as the CSL is already a few years old and quite a bit cheaper I would have expected a tad more from the new 997 GT3.

Likewise vs the 996 GT3. Perhaps when/if the rumoured 3.8 engine makes an appearance.

Okay, but the 3.9 produces 440, although it's a very torquey 440.