Rear camber / track adjustment
Discussion
Is it straightforward enough to modify the rear brackets and adjust camber / track? I suppose the down side is just how long it takes keep taking it all apart and modifying fraction by fraction.
Reading the old vizzard book, he says you can just elongate the hole upwards where the radius arm bolts on to reduce the positive camber, the weight of the car and size of the nut will prevent any slippage.
To reduce toe in you can put shims behind the bracket but i suspect its more tricky than it sounds. Can you just use washers behind the bolts/bracket and what sort of thickness? Vizzard mentions 15Thou for every 1° so are we talking shim steel? Do you need to elongate the holes for the bolts on the underside as well?
I was going to buy some brackets but have heard bad things about some of them under arduous conditions and fitment. Minisport possibly the best option, any recommendations?
Reading the old vizzard book, he says you can just elongate the hole upwards where the radius arm bolts on to reduce the positive camber, the weight of the car and size of the nut will prevent any slippage.
To reduce toe in you can put shims behind the bracket but i suspect its more tricky than it sounds. Can you just use washers behind the bolts/bracket and what sort of thickness? Vizzard mentions 15Thou for every 1° so are we talking shim steel? Do you need to elongate the holes for the bolts on the underside as well?
I was going to buy some brackets but have heard bad things about some of them under arduous conditions and fitment. Minisport possibly the best option, any recommendations?
guru_1071 said:
pete, please edit my above statement to include
'.....unless you are doing historic rallying...'
lol
'.....unless you are doing historic rallying...'
lol
Well, yes.
Actually it's not that bad a job so long as you measure everything first on a 4-way laser tracking system, then do the necessary calculations. For the camber meqasurement I just use a 24" x 18" piece of plywood with the sides absolutely square, hold it vertically across the wheel centre and measure from the edge of the ply to first the top of the rim and then the bottom of the rim. The difference is the camber over, in my case, 10" and a geometrical calculation where you divide the difference between the two measurements by the diameter of the rim gives the sine of the camber angle. It is obvious if this is positive or negative. This, in turn, can be used to calculate the length of the slot you need to file.
I know it's a longish job, but once done the handling improvement is fantastic.
To achieve the necessary toe-in, I did have a formula which my son laid out on a CAD system, but I can't find it. I'll have another good look this evening. Basically, for good road handling you need the rear wheels to toe-in about 1/8", but make sure that this is done equally to each side or the car will 'cradb' along the road. Any existing mis-match can be eliminated when this shimming or filing is done so that the car does run absolutely true.
It's all worth it in the end.
Peter
Guru, is that one of those ADA type gauges? I used to be able to borrow some dunlop caster/camber gauges but havent got access to them now. I quite like fiddling about with the suspension to get the settings right just havent tackled the rear end til now. Problem is its not just the £100 for the KAD brackets, its also £100 to pay someone to set it up or buy some track, caster and camber gauges. Reminds me, i'll start a separate thread on corner weights.
this is why we learnt to do it ourselves, it saves a fortune and pays for the tools many times over.
i paid a decent guy yo set it up, then used our tools to get the same settings as him, once id learnt how to 'read' the tools its just a case of learning the relationships between all the settings and spending a few hours checking and re checking everything.
very satisfactory.
we tend not to try anything to fancy with my car, its cornerweighted (see other thread!) and runs sensible settings all round, we know enough so that can tell whats toeing in or out and if it needs more or less of anything. we always run both side the same, as i think without lots of testing or knowledge it would be impossible to know if running one side with x amount of camber for example) and y amount on the other!
my dunlop gauges (which cam with a bubble gauge for castor) cost 150 quid second hand.
the castor/camber board is a flat screen printed thing - that was @30 quid
i paid a decent guy yo set it up, then used our tools to get the same settings as him, once id learnt how to 'read' the tools its just a case of learning the relationships between all the settings and spending a few hours checking and re checking everything.
very satisfactory.
we tend not to try anything to fancy with my car, its cornerweighted (see other thread!) and runs sensible settings all round, we know enough so that can tell whats toeing in or out and if it needs more or less of anything. we always run both side the same, as i think without lots of testing or knowledge it would be impossible to know if running one side with x amount of camber for example) and y amount on the other!
my dunlop gauges (which cam with a bubble gauge for castor) cost 150 quid second hand.
the castor/camber board is a flat screen printed thing - that was @30 quid
guru_1071 said:
this is why we learnt to do it ourselves, it saves a fortune and pays for the tools many times over.
i paid a decent guy yo set it up, then used our tools to get the same settings as him, once id learnt how to 'read' the tools its just a case of learning the relationships between all the settings and spending a few hours checking and re checking everything.
very satisfactory.
we tend not to try anything to fancy with my car, its cornerweighted (see other thread!) and runs sensible settings all round, we know enough so that can tell whats toeing in or out and if it needs more or less of anything. we always run both side the same, as i think without lots of testing or knowledge it would be impossible to know if running one side with x amount of camber for example) and y amount on the other!
my dunlop gauges (which cam with a bubble gauge for castor) cost 150 quid second hand.
the castor/camber board is a flat screen printed thing - that was @30 quid
i paid a decent guy yo set it up, then used our tools to get the same settings as him, once id learnt how to 'read' the tools its just a case of learning the relationships between all the settings and spending a few hours checking and re checking everything.
very satisfactory.
we tend not to try anything to fancy with my car, its cornerweighted (see other thread!) and runs sensible settings all round, we know enough so that can tell whats toeing in or out and if it needs more or less of anything. we always run both side the same, as i think without lots of testing or knowledge it would be impossible to know if running one side with x amount of camber for example) and y amount on the other!
my dunlop gauges (which cam with a bubble gauge for castor) cost 150 quid second hand.
the castor/camber board is a flat screen printed thing - that was @30 quid
Couldn't agree more with this post. Four wheel alignment...?? Marked out Box (axle stands) and string.
I've got a lovely Griffin and George inclinometer, vernier scale and gets it bang on, It takes time to use and does the job. I have to get some accurate way of doing the tow in/out though. At the moment it's had a wallop which bent a radius arm to dead ahead and I've set the other one up the same and it is "funny". Need to sort it out. 
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