2.5 M12

[cc_newboy]

Hi guys,

I am just hoping that someone can tell me the factory and essential modifications that should have been done to the original 2.5 M12's please? I know about the ECU upgrade, although some people are still running the original?? but i would like you to point out the other things that should've been done (if any)?

Any help appreciated!

Chris

[gadgeroonie]

the diff in the gearbox is weak and should be replaced with an ATB

best to get a Track Day Sump fitted

there is a wiring mod to the fuel pump that helps out

[alex s]

Also there was a fan upgrade that should have been done. ( old version just had the fans directly on the Rad...upgrade was the cowl and bigger fans.

With regards to the diff, mine caused me no problems for 2 years ( on standard power..which was around 325bhp..not the 352 quoted) until I had a power upgrade...it then lasted 3 days!!...expensive as it is an engine out job, also make sure you get someone who knows what they are doing to do it, otherwise it can cause all sorts of problems!!

HTH

[humpy]

I am no expert, being a new owner myself, however the things I was advised to look for are:

Limited Slip Diff - standard one is prone to fail in certain conditions under sudden load and it's very expensive to fix [engine out job]

New/upgraded ECU - not Magnetti Morelli [MM] unit which approx £1,000 to fix or £2,500-£3,000 if replaced with a new one. Although there are MM units still running with many miles on them.

Fan Upgrade - there was an upgrade done to the cooling fans and a cowling added to help overheating problems.

Track Day Sump - If you want to take it anywhere near a track or (so I'm told) drive it very hard. [approx £1,300 retro fit at factory]

M400 Fuel Pump & Loom Upgrade - It seems the standard wiring for the pump is not really up to the job and can create fuel starvation when the engine is under load. A new loom and uprated fuel pump (M400 type) will set you back about £175 plus fitting.

Not sure if I've missed anything - I'm sure someone will be along to say if I have.
Servicing & maintenance costs are dependant on mileage of course [and luck ] but at 12,000 miles per year I am budgeting for about £3,000 per year plus tyres.

One last thing - they are FANTASTIC!

Good Luck - HTH

Edited by Humpy on Monday 21st May 07:57

[LJM]

There has been a large number of recalls and upgrades and you are best to ask the factory, to mention a few:

The radiator fans should be on a shroud and not fitted directly to the rad.
The diff should be upgraded, mine has just gone.
The ecu should be MBE or aftermarket (My MBE has a sticker on the loom under the power steering tank for quick ID)
Track day sump is essential if you intend tracking it.
Mine has had some brake bias valve mod.
Also things like handbrake cable etc re-routes as factory call back (don't know why)

Mine will be forsale in the next few weeks once the diff has been changed, if you are intrested then e-mail me with what you are looking to spend!!

HTH, Lloyd

[cc_newboy]

Thanks everyone, much appreciated. I would be looking to spend around the 25k mark but possibly more depending on car, mileage bla bla bla. Any pictures and spec of cars for potential sale through here are most welcome - i am not in a rush to buy, but if its the right car....... Will i get a good car for this sort of money?

Chris

[Misterx]

I was told that all early radiators were replaced as a precautionary measure, I know mine was.

[humpy]

From my experience of recently looking around, you could get a decent car [right spec & upgrades] with full service history, recently serviced and no work to be done for that money.

[humpy]

Misterx said:

I was told that all early radiators were replaced as a precautionary measure, I know mine was.

I saw two without the fan upgrade

[mgbond]

Misterx said:

I was told that all early radiators were replaced as a precautionary measure, I know mine was.

This is true there was an issue with early radiators, I have car no 16 and it had rad upgrade under waranty. The factory had the details.

Ideally LSD and recalls are the essential bits. ECU as mentioned can be repaired and if on a car thats done 20k probably wont be an issue (Matt Faulks posted that comment when I was looking). Sump can be done at any time and 6spd would be great. fule pump is £200 so again can be done later (only an issue if upgrading power) 2.5 is 310Bhp some slightly higher and some lower. Fan upgrade was about £250.

So you can factor most of this in when you find a car.

In mine and LJM,s experience the LSD is a must as it is expensive to replace original diff. Again Matt said the std gear box should be fine with LSD.

Bondy

[JimNoble]

How many open diff failures have there actually been, and how many of them were on cars that had been "tweaked"...?

Jim

Edited by JimNoble on Thursday 12th October 07:57

[joolski]

JimNoble said:

How many open diff failures have there actually been, and how many of them were on cars that had been "tweaked"...?

Jim

Edited by JimNoble on Thursday 12th October 07:57

I have had 3 open diff failures, on my car. It was standard at the time, and they all happened in wet conditions, when one wheel span up and when it gripped again the shock damaged the diff.

I've had the diff and 'box upgraded to 6speed/lsd and I've not had any issues since. Just understear, but that's another story...

--Jools

[alex s]

JimNoble said:

How many open diff failures have there actually been, and how many of them were on cars that had been "tweaked"...?

Jim

Edited by JimNoble on Thursday 12th October 07:57

On my car, twice, first just before I got the car, whole gearbox was replaced, car was standard (I forgot about this till i check my bills last night) 2nd time the car was tweaked now has a 6spd and LSD.

[joust]

joolski said:

I have had 3 open diff failures, on my car. It was standard at the time, and they all happened in wet conditions, when one wheel span up and when it gripped again the shock damaged the diff.
I've had the diff and 'box upgraded to 6speed/lsd and I've not had any issues since. Just understear, but that's another story...

I think it's fair to say that the majority of them have 'gone' in high load circumstances, such as Jools says of getting the wheels spinning in the wet at speed.

I've not heard of one that's gone on just a road use car, every one I know of has had some track use as well.

Given the LSD is such a cheap upgrade parts wise, and it transforms the wet track behaviour, if you are going to track your car then get the LSD fitted / buy one with it in.

If you are just going to use it on road, and don't practice oversteer on HM roads, then don't be put off by a car that doesn't have an LSD.

J

[caspy]

Hi,sorry to semi hijack the thread but look for some Noble advice. What is the worth of a 41k!! Noble M12 2002 02 car. Non ECU upgrade but does have Track day sump, aircon, full Noble history, one owner etc etc.

Thanks

[alex s]

caspy said:

Hi,sorry to semi hijack the thread but look for some Noble advice. What is the worth of a 41k!! Noble M12 2002 02 car. Non ECU upgrade but does have Track day sump, aircon, full Noble history, one owner etc etc.

Thanks

All depends on condition/colour/options- 5/6spd box/lsd etc.
I would guess anything between 24-28K

[mgbond]

J

My car had done 13k and no track use. The diff went on me on a late night little blurt through a set of 4 roundabouts, I hit the last one a little hard and thats when it went.

Caspy

I think the car with 41k no ECU and if std diff should be between 20-25k. I paid 2k last november and it had 13k on the clock, but as above 24k months into ownership I blew the diff.

Bondy

[LJM]

For what it's worth my diff has gone at 14.5K and the car has not been tracked in the last 2 years. Mine went when i lost traction on a drain cover exiting a roundabout, I certainly wasn't broadside though.

cc_newboy YHM

Edited by LJM on Thursday 12th October 20:15

[nickytwohats]

Sounds familiar - mine went exiting a roundabout in the wet.
Foolishly I let myself buy another open diff (though being very financially challenged at the time did colour my judgement).

So - care in the wet is the key and DON'T NAIL IT IN FIRST

[mgbond]

nickytwohats said:

Sounds familiar - mine went exiting a roundabout in the wet.
Foolishly I let myself buy another open diff (though being very financially challenged at the time did colour my judgement).

So - care in the wet is the key and DON'T NAIL IT IN FIRST

Except mine was in the dry and in 2nd gear.

Bondy