Digital video camera advice
Discussion
a friend of mine is after a digital video camera, he's got a budget of up to £250 (or £270 if it means getting a corker).
are there any makes that standout as being generally good, also which format is best to get....some use tapes, some use a hard drive etc
i'd be greatful for any other advice on what to look for when buying as well.
many thanks in advance.
are there any makes that standout as being generally good, also which format is best to get....some use tapes, some use a hard drive etc
i'd be greatful for any other advice on what to look for when buying as well.
many thanks in advance.
Pros and Cons
Tapes
Digital 8 - Basically, Sony proprietary. I dying format. Skip it.
DVC (Mini DV) - Great all around format. Streams the video/audio into your PC via a 1394 (firewire) connection. Is almost universally accepted by all video editing software (including the free stuff that comes with Windows). Depending on the camera, however, video can be a bit subpar. Most mini-DV based cameras have a built in analog port for bullet cams. No worries for bumpy rides in cars.
HDV (uses mini DV tapes) - High Definition Mini DV basically. Pricey. No Analog in on most cameras. Fantastic video footage due to increased resolution. It's for "prosumers". It uses an onboard MPEG compression engine for higher definition video but is capable of streaming back the video at either high definition format (in which case you need special software to capture) or regular DV-AVI as DVC does. All streaming through 1394 (firewire)
non Tapes
DVD - Uses MPEG compression and is quick and easy for the unsophisticated consumer as you can just pop the DVD out of your camera and view it on your DVD player. Not for those that want to edit their footage, however as the current crop don't offer a viable option to stream the footage through firewire so you are left either editing an MPEG (bad juju) or attempting to perform an Analog capture through a DVD player. Internal electronics may take offense to "spirited rides in the country"
Hard Disk Drive - Has all of the problems that DVD has without the convenience. The most delicate internal electronics of the bunch. Most of the current crop have very high storage capability. Storage capability, however, comes at the price of being able to edit. You are back to either an analog capture or attempting to edit a highly compressed file, both of which are highly undesirable for good quality end product. Wait until second or third generation on these as the industry is currently addressing the compression issues. They have to because of the coming of age of HD-DVD/Blu-Ray.
---
It's horses for courses. What is more important? Convenience? Editing? Storage capacity? High Def footage? Bullet Cam? Make a list of requirements and then pick your tech.
ErnestM
Tapes
Digital 8 - Basically, Sony proprietary. I dying format. Skip it.
DVC (Mini DV) - Great all around format. Streams the video/audio into your PC via a 1394 (firewire) connection. Is almost universally accepted by all video editing software (including the free stuff that comes with Windows). Depending on the camera, however, video can be a bit subpar. Most mini-DV based cameras have a built in analog port for bullet cams. No worries for bumpy rides in cars.
HDV (uses mini DV tapes) - High Definition Mini DV basically. Pricey. No Analog in on most cameras. Fantastic video footage due to increased resolution. It's for "prosumers". It uses an onboard MPEG compression engine for higher definition video but is capable of streaming back the video at either high definition format (in which case you need special software to capture) or regular DV-AVI as DVC does. All streaming through 1394 (firewire)
non Tapes
DVD - Uses MPEG compression and is quick and easy for the unsophisticated consumer as you can just pop the DVD out of your camera and view it on your DVD player. Not for those that want to edit their footage, however as the current crop don't offer a viable option to stream the footage through firewire so you are left either editing an MPEG (bad juju) or attempting to perform an Analog capture through a DVD player. Internal electronics may take offense to "spirited rides in the country"
Hard Disk Drive - Has all of the problems that DVD has without the convenience. The most delicate internal electronics of the bunch. Most of the current crop have very high storage capability. Storage capability, however, comes at the price of being able to edit. You are back to either an analog capture or attempting to edit a highly compressed file, both of which are highly undesirable for good quality end product. Wait until second or third generation on these as the industry is currently addressing the compression issues. They have to because of the coming of age of HD-DVD/Blu-Ray.
---
It's horses for courses. What is more important? Convenience? Editing? Storage capacity? High Def footage? Bullet Cam? Make a list of requirements and then pick your tech.
ErnestM
Edited by ErnestM on Thursday 21st September 13:57
superlightr said:
Thanks ErnestM for the good summary!
Ease of use and small/lightweight otherwise it wont get used is the priority for me.
ps - you wernt joking when you said high prices for HDV - £1000 + Gulp.
Ease of use and small/lightweight otherwise it wont get used is the priority for me.
ps - you wernt joking when you said high prices for HDV - £1000 + Gulp.
Edited by superlightr on Thursday 21st September 16:14
Any of the top or even mid range Sony or Panasonic Mini-DV recorders will do, then. Sony HC96 may be a little over the top, bit it has the 1/3 inch ccd (rather than the smaller 1/5.5 inch of it's little brother the HC46) so the picture will be better.
ErnestM
Please see my earlier post on the Sanyo Exacti cameras.
These are MPEG4 (not MPEG2) caneras and store their output on an SD memory card.
To be honest, I bought mine more as a still camera than a video camera, and was surprised by how good they are as a video camera. Okay they probably dont perform as well as a dedicated DV cam, but I would describe the quality as well adequate when viewed on a TV. You can fit 45 mins of best-quality ie 3Mbps video on a 1 Gig SD card or you could go for a 2 Gig card, they are quite cheap on Ebay now.
The only other drawback as a video camera is the sound recording isn't great due to the microphone concealed in the viewfinder, so I guess a dedicated vidcam has the advantage here with a directional mike etc.
These are MPEG4 (not MPEG2) caneras and store their output on an SD memory card.
To be honest, I bought mine more as a still camera than a video camera, and was surprised by how good they are as a video camera. Okay they probably dont perform as well as a dedicated DV cam, but I would describe the quality as well adequate when viewed on a TV. You can fit 45 mins of best-quality ie 3Mbps video on a 1 Gig SD card or you could go for a 2 Gig card, they are quite cheap on Ebay now.
The only other drawback as a video camera is the sound recording isn't great due to the microphone concealed in the viewfinder, so I guess a dedicated vidcam has the advantage here with a directional mike etc.
ErnestM said:
[for HDV - £1000 + Gulp.
Edited by superlightr on Thursday 21st September 16:14
Any of the top or even mid range Sony or Panasonic Mini-DV recorders will do, then. Sony HC96 may be a little over the top, bit it has the 1/3 inch ccd (rather than the smaller 1/5.5 inch of it's little brother the HC46) so the picture will be better.
ErnestM[/quote]
Can you run through the process from recording to viewing
Is it
Put in Mini DV tape
record
transfer to computer (by a wire)?
burn onto CD
send to parents/in law
When you transfer to the comp. is this quick process? plug cam into comp?
I understand Digital photos transfers which is quick but unsure over video.
Many thanks
James
Sony DCR HC96E 539.00 GBP Is this the one?
Main Features TOP
Overview What you see is really what you get! thanks to its 3 Megapixel CCD, to its Primary Colour Filter and its Carl Zeiss® lens, the DCR-HC96E offers unmatched picture quality.
Features
• 3.3 Megapixels Advanced HAD CCD
• Primary color filter system
• Carl Zeiss® Vario-Sonnar T*
• 14 bit DXP
• True 16:9 widescreen recording mode
• 2.7" Wide Hybrid LCD with touch panel
• Wide select button
• Super SteadyShot
• 10x Optical Zoom / 120x Precision Digital Zoom
• Photo mode on Memory Stick Duo™
• 2016 x 1512 pixels still image
• Built in flash
• Spot meter, spot focus
• 2nd Start / Stop REC button on LCD frame
• 2nd Zoom button on LCD frame
• Intelligent Accessory shoe
• i.LINK™ (DV in / out)
• Video and S-Video analogue Input
• Direct access to "Click to DVD"
• Advanced USB Streaming (VCD Burning)
• STAMINA up to 5 hours (with optional battery)
Edited by SuperlightR on Tuesday 26th September 23:18
That's a good Sony.
Transferring to video. VERY BASIC
Hook up your firewire from the camera to computer. Turn on the camera (with the tape in obviously) If you are using Windows - it will find the camera (hopefully) and then ask you which application you would prefer to use. Choose your application. Select the "capture" option. Set the file type (AVI, WMV, MPEG, etc) and then your camera will play back the footage through firewire and the file will be created on your hard drive.
Authoring a DVD
You need special DVD authoring for that. The file structures on a DVD are specific for playback on a set top box. You cannot just drag and drop your AVI/WMV onto a DVD with burning software. I can't give you specifics because each authoring application works differently (but they get similar results) There are some good applications out there. Google DVD authoring software. Some are free/cheap. I use Adobe Encore 2.0 (not free/cheap)
ErnestM
Transferring to video. VERY BASIC
Hook up your firewire from the camera to computer. Turn on the camera (with the tape in obviously) If you are using Windows - it will find the camera (hopefully) and then ask you which application you would prefer to use. Choose your application. Select the "capture" option. Set the file type (AVI, WMV, MPEG, etc) and then your camera will play back the footage through firewire and the file will be created on your hard drive.
Authoring a DVD
You need special DVD authoring for that. The file structures on a DVD are specific for playback on a set top box. You cannot just drag and drop your AVI/WMV onto a DVD with burning software. I can't give you specifics because each authoring application works differently (but they get similar results) There are some good applications out there. Google DVD authoring software. Some are free/cheap. I use Adobe Encore 2.0 (not free/cheap)
ErnestM
ErnestM said:
That's a good Sony.
Transferring to video. VERY BASIC
Hook up your firewire from the camera to computer. Turn on the camera (with the tape in obviously) If you are using Windows - it will find the camera (hopefully) and then ask you which application you would prefer to use. Choose your application. Select the "capture" option. Set the file type (AVI, WMV, MPEG, etc) and then your camera will play back the footage through firewire and the file will be created on your hard drive.
Authoring a DVD
You need special DVD authoring for that. The file structures on a DVD are specific for playback on a set top box. You cannot just drag and drop your AVI/WMV onto a DVD with burning software. I can't give you specifics because each authoring application works differently (but they get similar results) There are some good applications out there. Google DVD authoring software. Some are free/cheap. I use Adobe Encore 2.0 (not free/cheap)
ErnestM
Transferring to video. VERY BASIC
Hook up your firewire from the camera to computer. Turn on the camera (with the tape in obviously) If you are using Windows - it will find the camera (hopefully) and then ask you which application you would prefer to use. Choose your application. Select the "capture" option. Set the file type (AVI, WMV, MPEG, etc) and then your camera will play back the footage through firewire and the file will be created on your hard drive.
Authoring a DVD
You need special DVD authoring for that. The file structures on a DVD are specific for playback on a set top box. You cannot just drag and drop your AVI/WMV onto a DVD with burning software. I can't give you specifics because each authoring application works differently (but they get similar results) There are some good applications out there. Google DVD authoring software. Some are free/cheap. I use Adobe Encore 2.0 (not free/cheap)
ErnestM
Thank you.
a couple of other question if you dont mind.
The playback/transfer into the computer is that 1:1 time or a speeded up process?
other option;
If I went for a DVD camcorder camcorder, is it simply disc out and into the computer to copy into the computer? then burn for more copies?
(parents in Law dont have a computer hence the need to copy onto a CD and post to them to play in their DVD player with me retaining the original DVD)
superlightr said:
Thank you.
a couple of other question if you dont mind.
The playback/transfer into the computer is that 1:1 time or a speeded up process?
other option;
If I went for a DVD camcorder camcorder, is it simply disc out and into the computer to copy into the computer? then burn for more copies?
(parents in Law dont have a computer hence the need to copy onto a CD and post to them to play in their DVD player with me retaining the original DVD)
a couple of other question if you dont mind.
The playback/transfer into the computer is that 1:1 time or a speeded up process?
other option;
If I went for a DVD camcorder camcorder, is it simply disc out and into the computer to copy into the computer? then burn for more copies?
(parents in Law dont have a computer hence the need to copy onto a CD and post to them to play in their DVD player with me retaining the original DVD)
playback/transfer is 1:1. It streams playback in real time through the firewire. I normally hook it up, put the kettle on, watch whatever race is on the telly, etc. Most software will auto stop the capture when the tape is finished.
ALERT ON DVD CAMERAS. A lot of higher end DVD cameras (Sony HDR-UX1, for instance) are now using a new compression scheme that makes the storage medium incompatible with just "popping it out the camera and popping it into the set top box." The compression scheme is called AVCHD and is MPEG-4 H.264. This means that you cannot just pop it out. You have to attach the camera to the telly.
That being said, If you have a dual DVD system in your computer, you should be able to just use a "diskcopy" piece of software to copy the disk. As long as you do a full copy (something like Intervideo's DVD Copy www.intervideo.com is ideal for this) your in-laws can play it on their DVD set top box.
Remember, however, that non-AVCHD based DVDs are simple MPEG-2 (usually as vob files, etc) and will be highly compressed and not able to be edited easily. So, if you have Speilberg aspirations, skip the DVD cams.
ErnestM
Ernstm - many thanks for your words of wisdom.
So much info, gets confusing.
We are edging towards a HDD recorder. why? like the idea of it and the simple file transfers. Im just bought and installing a DVD multisinging reader to my computer so to burn DVD's (for the Inlaws)
I would not wait for a 1:1 transfer with tapes. The DVD sounds ok but I like the idea of not buying recording mediums. They are also quite small and have shock proofing.
A question on the CCD megapixel one has 1 Mega CCd and the other has 3 mega CCD.
clearly 3 is technically better than 1 but would I notice the differance, its to capture my 2 younlings birthday in 20 days time (hence the rush) who run around quite fast. understand the compression view is being shaken down but cant really wait. So long as it works, thats good for me.
Im not in editing much. Just pop and copy and cut out the rubbish is good enough for me.
Im looking at the DCR SR90 or the DCR SR70 the main difference is the 3 or 1 mega CCD.
In anticipation, many thanks
James
So much info, gets confusing.
We are edging towards a HDD recorder. why? like the idea of it and the simple file transfers. Im just bought and installing a DVD multisinging reader to my computer so to burn DVD's (for the Inlaws)
I would not wait for a 1:1 transfer with tapes. The DVD sounds ok but I like the idea of not buying recording mediums. They are also quite small and have shock proofing.
A question on the CCD megapixel one has 1 Mega CCd and the other has 3 mega CCD.
clearly 3 is technically better than 1 but would I notice the differance, its to capture my 2 younlings birthday in 20 days time (hence the rush) who run around quite fast. understand the compression view is being shaken down but cant really wait. So long as it works, thats good for me.
Im not in editing much. Just pop and copy and cut out the rubbish is good enough for me.
Im looking at the DCR SR90 or the DCR SR70 the main difference is the 3 or 1 mega CCD.
In anticipation, many thanks
James
Megapixels mean nothing in terms of video performance unless you are going to be taking still pictures with it. What you want to do is get the camera with the largest CCD (or CMOS with the newer cameras) Size of chip, generally, is much more indicative of video performance. So if one has a 1/3" chip and the other has a 1/5" chip, get the one with the 1/3". Usually larger chips work better with lower light as well.
Just keep in mind that video from a HDD will already be compressed and there is no way to "uncompress" it. Also, IIRC (and I will have to check) the video streams from those files is substantially slower than DV-AVI that you get from tapes. DV-AVI runs about 25mbps where as the HDD/DVD type systems (even the new ones with the new codec) run between 9mbps and 15mbps. If you are filming a lot of action (cars driving, children jumping and playing, etc) you will get some transient artifacts with the files.
But, hey, if you're ok with that, I'm ok with that
Good luck - let me know how you get on
ErnestM
Just keep in mind that video from a HDD will already be compressed and there is no way to "uncompress" it. Also, IIRC (and I will have to check) the video streams from those files is substantially slower than DV-AVI that you get from tapes. DV-AVI runs about 25mbps where as the HDD/DVD type systems (even the new ones with the new codec) run between 9mbps and 15mbps. If you are filming a lot of action (cars driving, children jumping and playing, etc) you will get some transient artifacts with the files.
But, hey, if you're ok with that, I'm ok with that
Good luck - let me know how you get on
ErnestM
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