Discussion
As you may or may not know from my earlier thread, ive just started cycling and over the past 3 weeks have increase from 30 miles a week (in one go) to 90 (3 sets of 30) and im absolutely loving it.
Unfortunately, tonight ive developed a pain located on the outer side of my right knee, very near the patella. It started on a descent (after 2 hours) where I put all my body weight on the right leg to coast down the hill; then when I began to pedal I had a mildly painful twinge which increased as I pedalled, But then went away completely for the last 15 minutes.
I’ve had lots of pains over the years with running, but never in the knees.
Has anyone had this? Should I cycle back tomorrow? Is my seat too low?
Are you using clipless pedals? If so, make sure they're on their "floatiest" setting (so your feet can twist a bit without disengaging - you're not quite as rigidly locked in). Very tight cleats can cause knee pain.
However from your description it sounds like you may have irritated the fascia (sp?) on the outside of your knee. Theres a big band of tendons (ITB - Ilial-Tibial Band I think) that runs from above your hip, across your hip joint, down the outside of your leg and across the knee joint. Where it crosses the knee joint there's a fleshy pad to stop it rubbing on the knee. With lots of use and pressure this can become inflamed and painful. I did this during an 5-day adventure race in the Outer Hebrides - it stopped me running and slowed my cycling.
Sadly the solution was mostly rest although ITB stretches can help. To stretch your ITB sit on the floor with the leg not being stretched straight out in front of you. Bend the other leg and put the foot across the straight leg and next to the knee on the floor (so legs are now just crossed). Twist your body towards the bent leg and push against the bent knee with the back of the opposite elbow. You should feel a stretch the whole way down the uppare part of the outside of the bent leg. Hold for 30s increasing the pressure if you can. Do both legs a few times. IF ANY OF THIS HURTS DO NOT DO IT!
Please bear in mind I am not a physio or doctor, just an athlete that's had similar sounding problems.
Edit: I'd say go out on the bike tomorrow but make sure you have an escape plan if you do have pain. Your saddle should be high enough that you have a slight bend in your leg at the bottom of the pedal stroke with your foot parallel to the ground.
However from your description it sounds like you may have irritated the fascia (sp?) on the outside of your knee. Theres a big band of tendons (ITB - Ilial-Tibial Band I think) that runs from above your hip, across your hip joint, down the outside of your leg and across the knee joint. Where it crosses the knee joint there's a fleshy pad to stop it rubbing on the knee. With lots of use and pressure this can become inflamed and painful. I did this during an 5-day adventure race in the Outer Hebrides - it stopped me running and slowed my cycling.
Sadly the solution was mostly rest although ITB stretches can help. To stretch your ITB sit on the floor with the leg not being stretched straight out in front of you. Bend the other leg and put the foot across the straight leg and next to the knee on the floor (so legs are now just crossed). Twist your body towards the bent leg and push against the bent knee with the back of the opposite elbow. You should feel a stretch the whole way down the uppare part of the outside of the bent leg. Hold for 30s increasing the pressure if you can. Do both legs a few times. IF ANY OF THIS HURTS DO NOT DO IT!
Please bear in mind I am not a physio or doctor, just an athlete that's had similar sounding problems.
Edit: I'd say go out on the bike tomorrow but make sure you have an escape plan if you do have pain. Your saddle should be high enough that you have a slight bend in your leg at the bottom of the pedal stroke with your foot parallel to the ground.
Edited by ewenm on Friday 8th September 20:49
ewenm said:
Your saddle should be high enough that you have a slight bend in your leg at the bottom of the pedal stroke with your foot parallel to the ground.
Make sure you check the above d1bble, it's really important for comfort as well as efficiency. If your hips rock back and forth while pedaling your seat is adjusted too high. If your seat is too low your quadriceps will tire easily. You want to get as much leg extension as you can without locking the knee joint..
Trooper2 said:
ewenm said:
Your saddle should be high enough that you have a slight bend in your leg at the bottom of the pedal stroke with your foot parallel to the ground.
Make sure you check the above d1bble, it's really important for comfort as well as efficiency. If your hips rock back and forth while pedaling your seat is adjusted too high. If your seat is too low your quadriceps will tire easily. You want to get as much leg extension as you can without locking the knee joint..
I'll make sure i have it correct before i leave today. Thanks for that.
orgasmicliving!! said:
Listen to your body. If it hurts, try not to aggravate it and get to the cause of the pain and fix it.
I know, i know...Mother.
Seriously, im going to have to ride before i can find out what exactly is the cause. Saied said:
Has your bike ever fallen over on its side? A slightly bent crank or pedal spindle can cause unnatural movements as you ride.
Funny you should say that. I inherited my father’s racer and at some point in its life he let a young child borrow it who consequently buckled the rear wheel. I only noticed the other day as i was coasting down a hill and looked down. Could this be it?
Might be worth buying a new set of pedal spindles (or whole units) and cranks. If either of them are slightly bent, your knees would be twisting slightly as you turn the pedals.
A damaged or badly adjusted bottom bracket would have a similar effect, too.
As the rear wheel propells the bike, the condition of all components at the back end are very important: the rim should be true, the rear hub in good condition and well adjusted. Any significant sideways movement of the rear wheel as you pedal will do no favours.
Your seat height is important, too.
Good luck
Justin
A damaged or badly adjusted bottom bracket would have a similar effect, too.
As the rear wheel propells the bike, the condition of all components at the back end are very important: the rim should be true, the rear hub in good condition and well adjusted. Any significant sideways movement of the rear wheel as you pedal will do no favours.
Your seat height is important, too.
Good luck
Justin
Dibble - set up is critical and a few mm either way on any adjustment can make the difference between cylcing bliss and cycling hell..If you're not used to setting up the changes that you try and make base on suggestions from afar might cause more harm than good......what I would suggest is that you find a local bike shop that'll fit your bike to you......I'm not necessarily talking about a "bike fit" place where they charge you £££ to give you your perfect dimensional set up but a shop where the sales person is a rider and can interpret what you're saying with what he's seeing and then help you with the adjustments...........if you are ever near High Wycombe I know of a place that will do it
d1bble said:
Nope not using clipless pedals.
Thanks for the advice; I’ll try the stretching exercises
Escape plan initiated.
Seat heat: I can just tip toe.
Thanks for the advice; I’ll try the stretching exercises
Escape plan initiated.
Seat heat: I can just tip toe.
Don't judge seat height based on whether you can touch the ground or not (the tip toe thing) as that's not the important measurement - bottom bracket heights vary. Try to mae sure your leg is almost extended but the knee still slightly bent at the bottom of the pedal stroke. As someone else said, if your hips are rocking as you pedal it's too high.
Bloody hell guys, great advice. I’d like to thank you all very much for taking the time to reply and help me.
Made it back ok on Saturday (30 mile) although had a couple of twinges (one being quite bad), but it settled down.
To be fair I noticed this time that the twinges came on when tackeled an incline and I just sat down and pedalled quickly, instead of getting up and ‘running on the bike’ (best way I can describe it)
I got overtaken by a couple of women; the only reason I knew they were women (they were built like men!) was that they had something that said women’s clothing on their arse and they smelt really nice
I’ll take all your advice pertaining to seat height, pedals…crank etc and have some rest and report back. Possible new bike me thinks.
Made it back ok on Saturday (30 mile) although had a couple of twinges (one being quite bad), but it settled down.
To be fair I noticed this time that the twinges came on when tackeled an incline and I just sat down and pedalled quickly, instead of getting up and ‘running on the bike’ (best way I can describe it)
I got overtaken by a couple of women; the only reason I knew they were women (they were built like men!) was that they had something that said women’s clothing on their arse and they smelt really nice
I’ll take all your advice pertaining to seat height, pedals…crank etc and have some rest and report back. Possible new bike me thinks.
For another non-scientific way to set saddle height, sit on the bike and prop yourself up against a wall or something to stop yourself tipping over.
Then put your heel on the pedal at the bottom of its travel and adjust the saddle height until your leg is fully straight. Putting the ball of your foot back in its usual position, you should find that your knee is slightly bent at the bottom of the stroke.
If you feel your hips rocking as you pedal, you're still slightly too high.
Then put your heel on the pedal at the bottom of its travel and adjust the saddle height until your leg is fully straight. Putting the ball of your foot back in its usual position, you should find that your knee is slightly bent at the bottom of the stroke.
If you feel your hips rocking as you pedal, you're still slightly too high.
If you're riding with normal pedals then I'd go for PDV6's method of adjusting the saddle height. If you're going to do a lot of miles then look at the fore/aft postion, too - Google is your friend for info on knee-over-pedal position.
Sounds to me like you have ITB syndrome - tightness in the ITB which runs down the outside of the thigh is causing the kneecap to run up and down slightly out of true, irritating the cartilage behind it. See a physio for an ITB massage - deep frictions will make you cry, but it's worth it - and some exercises to strengthen the inner (medialis) part of the quads which pull the kneecap the other way.
If it's happening in one knee now, sooner or later it will probably crop up in the other.
Nick.
Got 'dem post-ironman blues.
Sounds to me like you have ITB syndrome - tightness in the ITB which runs down the outside of the thigh is causing the kneecap to run up and down slightly out of true, irritating the cartilage behind it. See a physio for an ITB massage - deep frictions will make you cry, but it's worth it - and some exercises to strengthen the inner (medialis) part of the quads which pull the kneecap the other way.
If it's happening in one knee now, sooner or later it will probably crop up in the other.
Nick.
Got 'dem post-ironman blues.
Edited by Nick_F on Monday 11th September 13:32
Nick_F said:
If you're riding with normal pedals then I'd go for PDV6's method of adjusting the saddle height. If you're going to do a lot of miles then look at the fore/aft postion, too - Google is your friend for info on knee-over-pedal position.
Sounds to me like you have ITB syndrome - tightness in the ITB which runs down the outside of the thigh is causing the kneecap to run up and down slightly out of true, irritating the cartilage behind it. See a physio for an ITB massage - deep frictions will make you dry, but it's worth it - and some exercises to strengthen the inner (medialis) part of the quads which pull the kneecap the other way.
If it's happening in one knee now, sooner or later it will probably crop up in the other.
Nick.
Got 'dem post-ironman blues.
Sounds to me like you have ITB syndrome - tightness in the ITB which runs down the outside of the thigh is causing the kneecap to run up and down slightly out of true, irritating the cartilage behind it. See a physio for an ITB massage - deep frictions will make you dry, but it's worth it - and some exercises to strengthen the inner (medialis) part of the quads which pull the kneecap the other way.
If it's happening in one knee now, sooner or later it will probably crop up in the other.
Nick.
Got 'dem post-ironman blues.
Nick - Ironman athlete are you? Used to work for TriUk in their early days
Whats your times? neil_cardiff said:
Nick - Ironman athlete are you? Used to work for TriUk in their early days Whats your times?
Whats your times? Er, strictly speaking 'Ironman athlete' is a bit strong - a year ago as a complete couch potato I set myself the challenge of getting fit enough to finish this year's IM at Sherborne...which I managed in 15:38:24, just outside the first 1000.
That was three weeks ago and I still can't bring myself to cut the competitor's wristband off
That's obviously my first effort to date, but the bug has definately bitten and I'm working on a programme to get me down under 13:30 next year. Unfortunately having done precious little running in training because of injury I'm now nursing a shin splint/bursitis condition from the race itself - as well as my first IM it was also my first-ever marathon and first run of more than 20km since about 20 years ago...so I know why, it's just very frustrating to have motivation to train but not be able to do anything with it.
TriUk are my local bike shop, so I spend a fair bit of time in there, as you can imagine...currently trying to decide whether I should honour my promise to myself to buy a blinged-up bike if I finished the race - but having stuffed my hillclimb car on Saturday the choice may have been made for me.
Nick_F said:
neil_cardiff said:
Nick - Ironman athlete are you? Used to work for TriUk in their early days Whats your times?
Whats your times? Er, strictly speaking 'Ironman athlete' is a bit strong - a year ago as a complete couch potato I set myself the challenge of getting fit enough to finish this year's IM at Sherborne...which I managed in 15:38:24, just outside the first 1000.
That was three weeks ago and I still can't bring myself to cut the competitor's wristband off
That's obviously my first effort to date, but the bug has definately bitten and I'm working on a programme to get me down under 13:30 next year. Unfortunately having done precious little running in training because of injury I'm now nursing a shin splint/bursitis condition from the race itself - as well as my first IM it was also my first-ever marathon and first run of more than 20km since about 20 years ago...so I know why, it's just very frustrating to have motivation to train but not be able to do anything with it.
TriUk are my local bike shop, so I spend a fair bit of time in there, as you can imagine...currently trying to decide whether I should honour my promise to myself to buy a blinged-up bike if I finished the race - but having stuffed my hillclimb car on Saturday the choice may have been made for me.
Nick YHM - not wanting to get into too much of a tangent by taking this off topic...
pdV6 said:
For another non-scientific way to set saddle height, sit on the bike and prop yourself up against a wall or something to stop yourself tipping over.
Then put your heel on the pedal at the bottom of its travel and adjust the saddle height until your leg is fully straight. Putting the ball of your foot back in its usual position, you should find that your knee is slightly bent at the bottom of the stroke.
If you feel your hips rocking as you pedal, you're still slightly too high.
Then put your heel on the pedal at the bottom of its travel and adjust the saddle height until your leg is fully straight. Putting the ball of your foot back in its usual position, you should find that your knee is slightly bent at the bottom of the stroke.
If you feel your hips rocking as you pedal, you're still slightly too high.
That is the way ive been told and it works for me. If my seat is too low i struggle to keep at a decent pace, If its to high i get a pain at the sides of my knees.
I do suffer from bad knees from when spuds first came out, No one knew if there was little float on them they would torture your knees, And they did.
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