Oil recommendations
Discussion
Unipart Silver for road engine engine. Semi Synthetic. Since Rover went bust it is now difficult to obtain, pity as it wasn't expensive. You find oils supplied from car manufacturers (Rover/Ford etc) are the ones that the engines to their DV test work on. They are a known guaranteed quality.
My Road Mini has been religously serviced using this with a new oil filter every 6K. Engine never been out of car in 107K and still going strong on original box too. I think it speaks for itself.
My Road Mini has been religously serviced using this with a new oil filter every 6K. Engine never been out of car in 107K and still going strong on original box too. I think it speaks for itself.
I use either Valvoline Racing 20/50 or Morris Multivis 15/50.
Once I tried a semi-synthetic (Shell Gemini) many years ago and after pulling a sustained 7300 rpm down a 1.5 mile long straight 4 times during one event, the cam bearings gave up and bits of white metal went through the gearbox - very expensive rebuild. However, maybe semi-synthetics have improved since then, but a wise old engine builder friend said that synthetics are 'weasel piss' and that a good 20/50 is better for the old 'A-series'. Synthetics have made me nervous ever since, although the experiences of others does show that this problem does not exist now.
The best oil I ever used was Kendall 20/50. It's blended from Pennsylvania crude oil (not Saudi crude) and was fantastic. I believe that one of the major oil companies used to put that into their cans for competition use and claim it as their own, but that's heresay. The problem was it was £24 per US gallon and that was 15 years ago!
Once I tried a semi-synthetic (Shell Gemini) many years ago and after pulling a sustained 7300 rpm down a 1.5 mile long straight 4 times during one event, the cam bearings gave up and bits of white metal went through the gearbox - very expensive rebuild. However, maybe semi-synthetics have improved since then, but a wise old engine builder friend said that synthetics are 'weasel piss' and that a good 20/50 is better for the old 'A-series'. Synthetics have made me nervous ever since, although the experiences of others does show that this problem does not exist now.
The best oil I ever used was Kendall 20/50. It's blended from Pennsylvania crude oil (not Saudi crude) and was fantastic. I believe that one of the major oil companies used to put that into their cans for competition use and claim it as their own, but that's heresay. The problem was it was £24 per US gallon and that was 15 years ago!
cooperman said:
a wise old engine builder friend said that synthetics are 'weasel piss' and that a good 20/50 is better for the old 'A-series'.
Yep.
I tried running an Esprit on Mobil 1 and it smoked like a diesel.
A decent quality 20/50 is miles more suited to loose old designs like an A Series.
If you do go with the "weasel piss", then keep a very close eye on the dipstick as you will be alarmed how fast it gets burned off.
wildoliver said:
Multivis 15-50 excellent oil.
DONT USE SYNTH OR SEMI SYNTH IN AN A OR B SERIES!
DONT USE SYNTH OR SEMI SYNTH IN AN A OR B SERIES!
What reasoned argument would you have for making such a sweeping generalisation? A few too many 'urban myths' surrounding the venerable A-series+gearbox in sump and its lubrication requirements I'm afraid. Just compare a couple of engines/boxes that have been run run on mineral only versus Semi/Fully synthetic. The condition of the gearboxes layshft tell you almost everything you need to know......
Motorbike oil works well in mini's, designed for engines that have the gears in the sump just like a mini. I saw significantly less wear with that than when I ran Mobil 1.
Castrol R4 superbike is good stuff, smells nice too, but its very runny.
I've just filled mine up with Millers CVT BM which is specifically designed for mini's with dog boxes, time will tell how it performs.
Things have moved on significantly from the days when mineral oils were better than synths.
Castrol R4 superbike is good stuff, smells nice too, but its very runny.
I've just filled mine up with Millers CVT BM which is specifically designed for mini's with dog boxes, time will tell how it performs.
Things have moved on significantly from the days when mineral oils were better than synths.
fwdracer said:
wildoliver said:
Multivis 15-50 excellent oil.
DONT USE SYNTH OR SEMI SYNTH IN AN A OR B SERIES!
DONT USE SYNTH OR SEMI SYNTH IN AN A OR B SERIES!
What reasoned argument would you have for making such a sweeping generalisation? A few too many 'urban myths' surrounding the venerable A-series+gearbox in sump and its lubrication requirements I'm afraid. Just compare a couple of engines/boxes that have been run run on mineral only versus Semi/Fully synthetic. The condition of the gearboxes layshft tell you almost everything you need to know......
i just stripped the box out my racer.
layshaft is 7 years old (a minispares comp one) and has done 5 years road use and 2 years racing.
the layshaft was unworn - i had expected to have to replace it, but it was like new, so stuck it back in.
thats run on valvoline racing all its life.
i think the mistake people make is to run normal minis (i.e syncro boxes) on synthetic, trouble is it kills the baulk rings and the gearboxes in no time.
we used to run it in a mighty mini - every two races the box needed rebuilding - swopped to valvoline and a box would do a full season.
urban myth or not - thats impressive
After watching my brother go through gearboxes like they were going out of fashion (running a kad twin cam for 12 years now) I did a fair bit of research while I was building my car.
One of the main reasons valvoline racing is so good in minis (and I bet a lot of people don't know this) is that it has one of the highest zinc contents of any car oil. Zinc only has 1 purpose in car oil, to protect against metal to metal contact. The only place you get metal to metal contact, if your oil is working correctly, is in the gearbox.
However, I still decided after lots more research that bike oil was the way forward, hence we have both run our cars (160hp and 185hp kad engines on dog boxes) on bike oil and have been very impressed with it. I've just done an oil change after 2000 miles and the oil came out clean with very little swarf on the sump plug.
One of the main reasons valvoline racing is so good in minis (and I bet a lot of people don't know this) is that it has one of the highest zinc contents of any car oil. Zinc only has 1 purpose in car oil, to protect against metal to metal contact. The only place you get metal to metal contact, if your oil is working correctly, is in the gearbox.
However, I still decided after lots more research that bike oil was the way forward, hence we have both run our cars (160hp and 185hp kad engines on dog boxes) on bike oil and have been very impressed with it. I've just done an oil change after 2000 miles and the oil came out clean with very little swarf on the sump plug.
A lot of different opinions on here and all from those who do have experience.
Maybe it's more a question of the application of the car, the frequency of oil changes, the performance of the oil pump and the way the engine is warmed up from cold.
On my rally cars i change the oil after every event. The second-hand s/c gears I recently sold to guru1071 were not too worn after about 30 rallies, but I just decided to fit a completely new set of MiniSpares ones. The new lay shaft then lasted one rally only with Valvoline Racing, but that's just a glitch in the case hardening, I guess.
Personally, I'm sure the frequency of changing is what is critical in a Mini and any good quality 20/50, 15/50 or semi-synthetic will be fine so long as it's changed at not more than every 2000 miles with a new filter as well. Ideally every 1500 miles on a higher performance engine.
I think I'll stick with Valvoline or Morris Multivis.
On my Rover 214 Si rally car I run any decent 10/40 semi-synthetic or full synthetic and it's fine, but then, the gears ain't in the engine oil, which is what mainly causes the problems with the Mini.
Maybe it's more a question of the application of the car, the frequency of oil changes, the performance of the oil pump and the way the engine is warmed up from cold.
On my rally cars i change the oil after every event. The second-hand s/c gears I recently sold to guru1071 were not too worn after about 30 rallies, but I just decided to fit a completely new set of MiniSpares ones. The new lay shaft then lasted one rally only with Valvoline Racing, but that's just a glitch in the case hardening, I guess.
Personally, I'm sure the frequency of changing is what is critical in a Mini and any good quality 20/50, 15/50 or semi-synthetic will be fine so long as it's changed at not more than every 2000 miles with a new filter as well. Ideally every 1500 miles on a higher performance engine.
I think I'll stick with Valvoline or Morris Multivis.
On my Rover 214 Si rally car I run any decent 10/40 semi-synthetic or full synthetic and it's fine, but then, the gears ain't in the engine oil, which is what mainly causes the problems with the Mini.
guru_1071 said:
fwdracer said:
wildoliver said:
Multivis 15-50 excellent oil.
DONT USE SYNTH OR SEMI SYNTH IN AN A OR B SERIES!
DONT USE SYNTH OR SEMI SYNTH IN AN A OR B SERIES!
What reasoned argument would you have for making such a sweeping generalisation? A few too many 'urban myths' surrounding the venerable A-series+gearbox in sump and its lubrication requirements I'm afraid. Just compare a couple of engines/boxes that have been run run on mineral only versus Semi/Fully synthetic. The condition of the gearboxes layshft tell you almost everything you need to know......
i just stripped the box out my racer.
layshaft is 7 years old (a minispares comp one) and has done 5 years road use and 2 years racing.
the layshaft was unworn - i had expected to have to replace it, but it was like new, so stuck it back in.
thats run on valvoline racing all its life.
i think the mistake people make is to run normal minis (i.e syncro boxes) on synthetic, trouble is it kills the baulk rings and the gearboxes in no time.
we used to run it in a mighty mini - every two races the box needed rebuilding - swopped to valvoline and a box would do a full season.
urban myth or not - thats impressive
Peoples experience is definatly the best resource we have on this chat site - I've no doubt on the qualities of Valvoline having raced on it for seasons now. I race on Valvoline but have never used it in my road Mini. As stated before - mild state of tune (85bhp), Standard helical syncro box box and no issues in 107K. The car is driven errrrr enthusiastically all the time and I've nver had any baulk ring or gear selection issues.
i think that oil choice often comes down to 'different strokes for different folks' and its best to find one you like stick to it and change it and the filter often.
we often take the oil out the racer and let it stand for a week, my brother then uses it in his road mini (its a real ratter!), or thin it with diesel and spray it under cars as rust preventer (works a treat on my bros mini!!)
we often take the oil out the racer and let it stand for a week, my brother then uses it in his road mini (its a real ratter!), or thin it with diesel and spray it under cars as rust preventer (works a treat on my bros mini!!)
Valvoline seems to work but my cogs are wearing a bit fast. I'm going R40 after the next rebuild with an evacusump to get rid of the gum forming shite. Molybdenum Disulphide content still isn't high enough for running gears in oil. It's most apparent on things like challenge boxes. They wear the first on the layshaft in no time.
trouble with r40 is the stink gets into all the trim and the carpet, its very nasty if you get it on your skin and if you go on long journies the castor in it gives you the $hits!
really not practical for everyday use! - i used to use it and gave up on it - the bad guts, nasty rash and stink in your clothes just gets too much after a while
its also very expensive!
really not practical for everyday use! - i used to use it and gave up on it - the bad guts, nasty rash and stink in your clothes just gets too much after a while
its also very expensive!
My sweeping gerneralisation is based on a road car not a racer.
Also what is a good oil for the box may not necessarily be the ideal oil for the engine, I agree if using a semi synth is preserving your very highly stressed race box then the negative on the engine is worth living with, especially given that the only negative is increased leakage via piston rings/valve stem seals and fault leaks.
The worst thing this leakage brings about is bore glazing and carbon build up in combustion chamber, neither of which are likely to occur on a race engine due to the high revving nature of use and time between rebuilds.
BUT on a road engine, with an unstressed helical cut box you do not want to be using semi synth or synth. Not least it is a total waste of money for a road car, you would be better spending a fifth of the price on a good 20/50 mineral oil and religiously changing every 3000 miles max.
The a series and b series along with many other classic engines have no need for modern oils, even the most basic are far in advance of what they were designed for, they like a thicker oil. What they NEED is regular changes thats what most owners scrimp on.
Also what is a good oil for the box may not necessarily be the ideal oil for the engine, I agree if using a semi synth is preserving your very highly stressed race box then the negative on the engine is worth living with, especially given that the only negative is increased leakage via piston rings/valve stem seals and fault leaks.
The worst thing this leakage brings about is bore glazing and carbon build up in combustion chamber, neither of which are likely to occur on a race engine due to the high revving nature of use and time between rebuilds.
BUT on a road engine, with an unstressed helical cut box you do not want to be using semi synth or synth. Not least it is a total waste of money for a road car, you would be better spending a fifth of the price on a good 20/50 mineral oil and religiously changing every 3000 miles max.
The a series and b series along with many other classic engines have no need for modern oils, even the most basic are far in advance of what they were designed for, they like a thicker oil. What they NEED is regular changes thats what most owners scrimp on.
My experience with Semi Synthetic based entirely on experience with my road Mini. Helical syncro box - mild 85 bhp tune.... 107K miles later no problems. Still original engine / box /clutch. I can't reconcile with any of the issues raised reference bore glazing etc on Semi synths. Its folklore. My road Mini, despite its high mileage still only uses a pint every 6K. That isn't the oil consumption figures of any engine (A, B-series or modern) with a buggered piston ring to bore interface. I reckon most of the requirement of that pint comes from the oil making its way out via the gearbox input oil seal on trhe road Mini (B*stard things)! All Mini's seem to leak there..... irrespective of the oil in 'em.
I use valvoline racing in my se7en due to its excellent lubricty properties and have to conclude that Dan's comment on protecting the gear train are very valid. The dog box has shown better wear characteristics on Valvoline than any previous oil.
If money isn't the first objective I'd recommend Valvoline racing full synthetic VR1 5w/50 on any engine road or race (£30-35 for 5l). For those that refuse to accept the onrush of technology 20w/50 Valvoline VR1 Mineral is excellent(has a3B3 / SJ Spec)and at £20-ish for 5l is good. I've raced (8500rpm+) on both.
Last point worth noting is that semi and synths apparently cause oil leaks. This is another piece of folklore as the materials used in seals has come a long way since the early eighties. The race unit is equipped with normal "road seals" and it doesn't leak using fully synthetic oil.
I use valvoline racing in my se7en due to its excellent lubricty properties and have to conclude that Dan's comment on protecting the gear train are very valid. The dog box has shown better wear characteristics on Valvoline than any previous oil.
If money isn't the first objective I'd recommend Valvoline racing full synthetic VR1 5w/50 on any engine road or race (£30-35 for 5l). For those that refuse to accept the onrush of technology 20w/50 Valvoline VR1 Mineral is excellent(has a3B3 / SJ Spec)and at £20-ish for 5l is good. I've raced (8500rpm+) on both.
Last point worth noting is that semi and synths apparently cause oil leaks. This is another piece of folklore as the materials used in seals has come a long way since the early eighties. The race unit is equipped with normal "road seals" and it doesn't leak using fully synthetic oil.
Edited by fwdracer on Friday 25th August 10:54
guru_1071 said:
trouble with r40 is the stink gets into all the trim and the carpet, its very nasty if you get it on your skin and if you go on long journies the castor in it gives you the $hits!
really not practical for everyday use! - i used to use it and gave up on it - the bad guts, nasty rash and stink in your clothes just gets too much after a while
its also very expensive!
really not practical for everyday use! - i used to use it and gave up on it - the bad guts, nasty rash and stink in your clothes just gets too much after a while
its also very expensive!
Interesting about the rash and guts thing, do elaborate! Sounds like your car was powered by a castor oil burning boiler. My mates old TVR vixen used to breathe quite heavily and the valvoline fumes were intolerable, imagine gargling with EP80. Burning nose and throat, not to mention the horrible taste. My mini is generally used as a "I'll go for a 10 mile blast" but sometimes will do a 100 mile run in it (usually taking less than an hour!!
). the engine doesn't breathe that much but the worst smell is from the stand off.Gassing Station | Classic Minis | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff